Jones average pay: $65k?
293 RepliesJump to last post
[quote=Moraen] [quote=anonymous] A few insurance thoughts from this thread:
1) Windy, how can you possibly even start to count an unsold policy in your gross?
2) Until a bank will cash your gross, who cares about it?
3) Does Jones just pay you a straight commission on this that then goes through the grid? Do you get overrides on this? If the answers are "yes" and "no", you are really getting hosed.
4) Why are people getting worked up about illustrations? It makes no sense to use an illustration with a client until after a policy is approved. What are you going to do with an illustration? "Here, Mr. Client, let me show this illustration to you. I promise that it will be wrong."
5)Wind, you are going to hurt somebody. It won't be intentional. You are relying on wholesalers. Their job is to help you make the sale. Your problem is that you simply don't have the insurance knowledge as of yet to have any clue what is in the client's best interest. For now, for the sake of your client, do your insurance work with another Jones rep who has the knowledge necessary to know what is best for the client. [/quote]
For the record - I've never had an illustration be wrong at Jones. Admittedly, I only did two or three policies a month. I also guarantee that as a new Jones rep who didn't know a lot, I put people in products they didn't belong in because an EXPERIENCED FA and wholesaler helped me and because I didn't know any better.
What I was trying to say is that he doesn't even know the jargon enough to get information. He said he was sending her illustration. Which makes no sense to me.
It should matter the level of competency, it does matter, but most firms (not just Jones) are concerned with the sale and convince themselves that it is the right thing.
[/quote] Not to defend Windy here, or rebutt you guys, but does that mean that no FA should sell anything until he totally knows what he's doing? Of course, I know that ONLY happens at Jones. Newbies at Merrill Lynch are more educated and more knowledgable, and those IPO's that they sell are ONLY sold in the best interest of the clients. Unfortunately in our industry, most guys don't know what they are doing when they start out - so don't just bash Windy for that - most of us were in that boat at one time.
I’m glad I didn’t take anonymous’s advice back in HS when me and my first girlfriend where having sex for the first time, otherwise I’d be “screwed”
(yes it was last week, yes she is fat)
It’s one thing to be ignorant in a subject matter but to parade that around as some sort of badge of honor is beyond me. Read, study and ask questions of other advisors please…
Nogg, I absolutely agree with that. Windy is a pompous a$$, and doesn’t know when to shut his trap. I’m not defending his behavior, I am really just saying (in response to Anon’s post) that many of us have been put in the situation of not understanding everything we are selling. Personally, I took Jones’ advice and kept it simple until I learned all the ropes.
Now I'm into shorts, straddles, IPO's, leveraged ETF's, and I am dabbling in currency hedges ("B, B, wake up, you're having a dream. Weddle's on the phone. Wipe the drool off your chin.").You misunderstood what he wrote. He said he sent our her illustration (which I'm guessing means her statements not an actually illustration) to a few companies. He didn't say he sent her an illustration. This is how I'm going to back him up on it: you can't read! You folks are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Wind, in his youthful and inexperienced exuberance, did what a lot of us did at the beginning of our careers and counted a chicken before it hatched. He may or may not know, I don't know which one because I haven't asked, that it might take 2-3 months before that deal closes. I use to make that mistake all the time. Counted a rollover before I had the check. Figured a transfer was going to go smoothly when it didn't. I know you like to beat up on him, but this is really getting old.Seriously? You sent out her ILLUSTRATION? And if you don’t know what the premiums are, how can you know they’ll be lower?
Spiff - How are you going to back him up on this one?
[quote=Moraen]Seriously? You sent out her ILLUSTRATION? And if you don’t know what the premiums are, how can you know they’ll be lower? Spiff - How are you going to back him up on this one?
You misunderstood what he wrote. He said he sent our her illustration (which I’m guessing means her statements not an actually illustration) to a few companies. He didn’t say he sent her an illustration. This is how I’m going to back him up on it: you can’t read!
You folks are making a mountain out of a mole hill here. Wind, in his youthful and inexperienced exuberance, did what a lot of us did at the beginning of our careers and counted a chicken before it hatched. He may or may not know, I don’t know which one because I haven’t asked, that it might take 2-3 months before that deal closes. I use to make that mistake all the time. Counted a rollover before I had the check. Figured a transfer was going to go smoothly when it didn’t.
I know you like to beat up on him, but this is really getting old. [/quote]
Spiff. I wrote “You sent out her ILLUSTRATION?” Not “You sent her an illustration”. Somebody else needs to learn to read. And after you quoted me too! You are probably right that he meant statements, but that’s not what he said, and he’s accusing me of not reading.
If he doesn’t know the jargon at LEAST…
[quote=voltmoie]
I’m glad I didn’t take anonymous’s advice back in HS when me and my first girlfriend where having sex for the first time, otherwise I’d be “screwed”(yes it was last week, yes she is fat)
[/quote]
Dude you are freakin’ hilarious!
Oh Jesus......Wait, thats me...It’s one thing to be ignorant in a subject matter but to parade that around as some sort of badge of honor is beyond me. Read, study and ask questions of other advisors please…
p.s. – Maybe this is a good way to bring this thread to a close, by circling back to the beginning? Anyway, I did receive a job offer from Jones this week. Thanks for the helpful advice.
p.s. – Maybe this is a good way to bring this thread to a close, by circling back to the beginning? Anyway, I did receive a job offer from Jones this week. Thanks for the helpful advice.
I'm gonna tell you what a client of mine told me when I told him I was engaged.
Congratulations.... you're f**ked!
Just kidding. Good for you. Great company. Learn a lot. Don't screw up anybody's portfolio. Don't brag about your numbers.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=anonymous] A few insurance thoughts from this thread:
1) Windy, how can you possibly even start to count an unsold policy in your gross?
2) Until a bank will cash your gross, who cares about it?
3) Does Jones just pay you a straight commission on this that then goes through the grid? Do you get overrides on this? If the answers are "yes" and "no", you are really getting hosed.
4) Why are people getting worked up about illustrations? It makes no sense to use an illustration with a client until after a policy is approved. What are you going to do with an illustration? "Here, Mr. Client, let me show this illustration to you. I promise that it will be wrong."
5)Wind, you are going to hurt somebody. It won't be intentional. You are relying on wholesalers. Their job is to help you make the sale. Your problem is that you simply don't have the insurance knowledge as of yet to have any clue what is in the client's best interest. For now, for the sake of your client, do your insurance work with another Jones rep who has the knowledge necessary to know what is best for the client. [/quote]
For the record - I've never had an illustration be wrong at Jones. Admittedly, I only did two or three policies a month. I also guarantee that as a new Jones rep who didn't know a lot, I put people in products they didn't belong in because an EXPERIENCED FA and wholesaler helped me and because I didn't know any better.
What I was trying to say is that he doesn't even know the jargon enough to get information. He said he was sending her illustration. Which makes no sense to me.
It should matter the level of competency, it does matter, but most firms (not just Jones) are concerned with the sale and convince themselves that it is the right thing.
[/quote] Moraen, maybe my point wasn't clear. This has nothing to do with Jones. The illustrations at Jones are wrong 100% of the time. Illustrations at all firms are wrong 100% of the time. Illustrations only are accurate if nothing ever changes. When you look at an illustration and it shows your client that there will be $113,673 of cash in 13 years, we know that the number is wrong. When we combine the fact that the illustration is going to be wrong and the fact that we don't know the person's rate classification and the best company for them until AFTER they apply for insurance, it makes no sense to use an illustration to sell insurance until after a policy is approved.
[quote=BioFreeze]
Anonymous, have you ever been wrong? About anything?
[/quote]
You can’t be wrong if you are anonymous.
He is actually DEAD wrong with regards to Jones & illustrations. The last two Hartford policies I sent in required signed illustrations before the application process could start. So yes, we need them. Of course he’ll drown me in text to make his anonymous point…
It’s beer o’clock!
Anon - Got your point. I think mine was a little different. I get that illustrations are always wrong, because things never go according to plan. My point was twofold - 1) The language he used was incorrect and 2) The illustrations as far as PREMIUM and death BENEFIT were accurate at the time of policy issue. Really, I don’t sell insurance anymore, so it’s not as big a deal for me. I now know enough to ask the right questions of the insurance agent for my clients. Which is a big step up from where I was at Jones.
To the point of people knowing what they are doing. How about an apprenticeship program? You are not allowed to see clients or make recommendations until it is finished. Or a three-phased program, where you do nothing at first, and then slowly move in to recommendations, and then finally you are on your own.
We’re currently developing a training program. I’m sure it won’t be perfect, but the goal is to pay salaries to guys (and gals) starting out until they are not as dangerous. We are ALL dangerous in some form. My goal is to educate and train not just a good salesforce, but competent advisors as well. We’ll see how it unfolds.
Bio, I'm wrong lots. I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong. Usually, I know when I don't know something, so I don't post. If I'm not sure, I say that I'm not sure. When I'm wrong, tell me. I have no problem owning up to my mistakes. They're pretty frequent.
This will piss you off. I'm not wrong. I don't think that I've ever commented as to whether Jones requires a signed illustration. I have no idea what Jones requires or doesn't require. My point is that an illustration will always be wrong. Therefore, the only thing that you can do with it is make a promise that the numbers will be higher or lower. Illustrations are legally necessary whenever there are unguaranteed parts of the contract, but they aren't legally required until the policy is being put in force. I believe that the only time that an illustration is needed upfront is if it is a replacement case and an illustration is used to help sell the policy.[quote=BioFreeze]
Anonymous, have you ever been wrong? About anything?
[/quote]
You can’t be wrong if you are anonymous.
He is actually DEAD wrong with regards to Jones & illustrations. The last two Hartford policies I sent in required signed illustrations before the application process could start. So yes, we need them. Of course he’ll drown me in text to make his anonymous point…
It’s beer o’clock!
[quote=BariSax]p.s. – Maybe this is a good way to bring this thread to a close, by circling back to the beginning? Anyway, I did receive a job offer from Jones this week. Thanks for the helpful advice.[/quote]
Does anyone remember this thread was about starting salary at Jones???
If you want to talk insurance, start your own thread…
Maybe we should start a thread for windy where he can post the stuff we all don’t care about!
[quote=BioFreeze] [quote=anonymous][quote=Moraen] [quote=anonymous] A few insurance thoughts from this thread:
1) Windy, how can you possibly even start to count an unsold policy in your gross?
2) Until a bank will cash your gross, who cares about it?
3) Does Jones just pay you a straight commission on this that then goes through the grid? Do you get overrides on this? If the answers are "yes" and "no", you are really getting hosed.
4) Why are people getting worked up about illustrations? It makes no sense to use an illustration with a client until after a policy is approved. What are you going to do with an illustration? "Here, Mr. Client, let me show this illustration to you. I promise that it will be wrong."
5)Wind, you are going to hurt somebody. It won't be intentional. You are relying on wholesalers. Their job is to help you make the sale. Your problem is that you simply don't have the insurance knowledge as of yet to have any clue what is in the client's best interest. For now, for the sake of your client, do your insurance work with another Jones rep who has the knowledge necessary to know what is best for the client. [/quote]
For the record - I've never had an illustration be wrong at Jones. Admittedly, I only did two or three policies a month. I also guarantee that as a new Jones rep who didn't know a lot, I put people in products they didn't belong in because an EXPERIENCED FA and wholesaler helped me and because I didn't know any better.
What I was trying to say is that he doesn't even know the jargon enough to get information. He said he was sending her illustration. Which makes no sense to me.
It should matter the level of competency, it does matter, but most firms (not just Jones) are concerned with the sale and convince themselves that it is the right thing.
[/quote] Moraen, maybe my point wasn't clear. This has nothing to do with Jones. The illustrations at Jones are wrong 100% of the time. Illustrations at all firms are wrong 100% of the time. Illustrations only are accurate if nothing ever changes. When you look at an illustration and it shows your client that there will be $113,673 of cash in 13 years, we know that the number is wrong. When we combine the fact that the illustration is going to be wrong and the fact that we don't know the person's rate classification and the best company for them until AFTER they apply for insurance, it makes no sense to use an illustration to sell insurance until after a policy is approved.[/quote]
Anonymous, have you ever been wrong? About anything?
[/quote] I don't know about Anon...but, I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken!