[quote=Hey Kool-Aid][quote=noggin][quote=edjgp123]Shark,

  I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK.    [/quote]   So it is okay in your mind to bash Jones if you are not mad and you were making it there when you left?[/quote]   There is a difference between bashing Jones with intelligent comments because you disagree with the way they do things, and bashing them like 52new or this guy!  We have our differences of opinion on alot of things Jones related Noggin but you always bash with intelligence...these guys are pushing it a bit![/quote] Thanks for your kind words HKA. It is easier for me to look at things rationally, the longer I have been away from Jones.

52new:

Track record is a standard generalized definition. While the funds in Advisory solutions have history, since A/S is a fund of fund and the funds are often changing, it’s impossible to determine their history. I don’t have much faith in the E/J analysts that choose the funds. They may be OK. But I’m not ready to invest my money or my customers money in A/S. There are a number of very good fee based plans out there and I’m disappointed that Jones doesn’t offer them. And I don’t see how a Jones FA can survive selling Mutual Funds and trying to live on 10 basis points.

  What are the number of very good fee based programs??

noggin:

I would be careful using advisory solutions in NQ accounts. I tend to have ETF’s or stocks mixed in with some tax free bonds in those types of accounts because of capital gain exposure. It would be hard to control that if they are constantly rebalancing those funds. It is never a problem to transfer a fee based account in by using in kind. Good luck to you, my offer still stands.

  I only use ETF's, index funds, and tax-sensitive funds in my NQ Advisory accounts.  Rebalancing rules have higher thresholds in NQ accounts as well.   But I agree, I wish we had more control over the rebalancing of NQ accounts.  I guess you have to have some rules in place, or it's not really doing what it's intented to do.  The significant majority of AS accounts at Jones are qualified.

At least you can put a few thoughts together.  Should make for some interesting banter if you stick around long enough.  You're entitled to your opinion of course, but see my comments below:   [quote=sharksandwich] I did the Ed Jones things myself, starting from scratch and building up a livable income. I would probably still be there, but I had to move to the U.S. for personal reasons, and I was not willing to do the Jones thing again in big city USA (small town Jones and big town Jones are 2 different animals). I have worked for two big boy firms since - one while making the transition to the States, and who was willing to sponsor me for my series 7; and one where I finally landed and stayed. I think Jones training for newbies to the industry is the very best. Seriously. The problem being it is also a cult, and not until one detaches himself from the place can you fully realize what a mind melt the place is. I'm glad I left, and when I see a Jones rep today (I've been doorknocked twice), they have that look that I'm sure I carried. You know the look - kind of a cross between a Scientologist and Amway rep. I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm.

I recently read some academic material on Totalism and cult behaviour, and I kept thinking about Edward Jones. Call it cult lite if you wish, but it is definitely meets the criteria of a cult. Does this sound familiar?-

The Cult Test:
1)The Guru is always right
Anyone else get the urge to puke at hearing of another Ted Jones story, which we heard ad nauseum. Ted Jones is the David Koresh of EDJ. His picture is plastered around the head office in both Canada and St Louis like Stalin.  -  Who do you want them to talk about? Ben Edwards?  Should the company leave the past alone and not talk about how we got to where we are?  The knock against Jones growing to 20,000 FAs is the question of culture.  How do you keep the culture and history alive while growing so quickly?  Answer - you keep talking about the past.  You tell the stories about the origins of the firm and why we are who we are.  They want to keep the feel of the old company around because that's what people like about Jones.   There's a big difference between telling a funny story about eccentric son of the founder of the company who's biggest claim to fame was the doorknocking idea and David Koresh who thought he was a prophet. 
2)You are Always Wrong
Toss out an original thought, and you will quickly be shut down. Do it often and you are labeled a trouble maker. -  There hasn't been an original thought in this industry in 50 years.  Everything is just a repackaging of some old idea.  Who exactly do you get in "trouble" with if you have an "original thought"?  Compliance?  Jim Weddle?  Your RL?  The only one of those three that mean anything at all is the first one.  Worst you're going to get from Weddle is a sarcastic remark in his suggbox response.  And your RL is mostly bark with very little bite.  Dissent away my friend. 
3)No Exit
Read the first post in this thread. It speaks for itself. After year 3, load people up with limited partnerships, and you have them by the short hairs.  - This comment is so factually inaccurate that it doesn't even really warrant a response.   But - Almost nobody in the field has LP after three years.  The timing and their performance isn't normally that well aligned.  You can leave Jones anytime you want.  Do it in the first couple of years and it might cost you or your new firm some cash.  After that, don't let the door hit you on the way out. 
4)No Graduates
Nobody ever rises to the level of the Guru.  - This is true.  There won't ever be another Ted Jones.  There have been better leaders of the firm: Bachmann and Weddle and better advisors - David Lane, Van Pearcy, Tom Bartow, Jim McKenzie, and Troy Nelson to name a few.  But none of those folks were in a position to influence the firm as much as Ted did.  So, he will remain the iconic figure of EDJ, but that's because WE put him there.  It's not because, like Stalin or Koresh, he elevated himself to that level by force, coercion, or drugs.
5)Group think, suppression of dissent
6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can't take it. It's ad hominem, ad nauseum. - If you'll look at the most vocal posts in this thread, they come from non-Jones people.  In fact they come from the very people that I often have some very heated disussions with.  Mr. 52 came on here and put out some just plain stupid comments.  Thus the personal attacks.  If you want ad hominem attacks against Jones, you can find plenty of them here.  Here's one for starters - "I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm."  Mr. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot.  Hmm...you're both black. 

7)Insistence that the cult is the only way
Sure, they will cut you some slack if you don't do it door to door like a jehovah's witness. They don't care if you get clients using telepathy, but they will only work with and give time for someone to develop if they do it the the fullerbrush thing. - Really?  Do you have any way to prove that?  See, because if you're really doing it the fullerbrush way like Jones suggests, then you more than likely won't have to be having a conversation with anyone about needing more time to "develop."  At least that's what I've seen in my many years with Jones. 
8)The cult and its members are special
How many times have you heard that? Who doesn't want to be special? Now get your ass out there and pound the pavement. - Do you really want your company leaders telling you that you're just a warm body filling a spot in Podunk, AL?  Of course they're going to tell you that you're special.  It's called motivation and morale building. 
9)Induction of guilt - the only guilt I feel is when I don't make enough money to pay my bills.  That guilt comes from my gut, not from Jones.
10) Unquestionable dogma - If the dogma were unquestionable, why would they offer up the Suggbox?  I've never found anyone at Jones unwilling to answer a question posed in a rational manner.  Maybe your RL was different than mine.    11)Appeals to holy or wise authorities
It's been a while... Are they still doing the mentor thing? That was ridiculous. My mentor inherited a Goodknight plan and got $20 miilion in assets on day one. He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple. I started with zip, and built up my $20 million by working for it, and cleaning up the slop from all of the other slaughtered sheep who quit soon after realizing Jones sold them a bill of goods. Of the first fifty brokers in our city (we were all new because Jones was new to Canada), one remains. Countless others came and went in the interum. - So, your mentor taught you nothing about managing money, working with clients, or managing your time?  Sure, he might not have been the right guy to ask about doorknocking, but he surely could have taught you something.  You know, you also could have asked for a different mentor.  For every one story like yours, there are 50 other guys who say they learned a ton from their mentor.    12)Instant Community
13)Instant Intimacy
14)Starry eyed faith
15)Personal testimonies from earlier converts
16)Cloning
Read: "Jones Clones". I think I invented that term. I dare you to find a Jones rep of any stature who doesn't look, smell, walk, talk like a Baptist preacher. - Is there something wrong with Baptist preachers?  I walked into a meeting with Oppenheimer once and the room was full of people with white shirts, striped ties, and blue or black pinstriped suits.  Since all of the meetings that I'd been to up to that point were Jones only events, I was suprised to be at a table with a team from Merrill, an independant guy, and a lady from a bank.  I don't think that look, smell, walk, or talk is Jones specific.  I think it's our industry in general. 
17)Dishonesty, deceit, denial, false promises, yadda yadda yadda - So, are you, like a few others on here, going to tell us that Jones lied to you?  Pray tell...
18)Newcomers can't think right - Because in this business they typically don't know any better until they've been there and done that.
19)Ideology over experience, observation and logic - What ideology exactly is Jones favoring over our experiences, observations, and logic? 

The list goes on (and on, and on, and on). I never realized while I was there that I was under the spell, and I feel bad for being party to all of the manipulation tactics myself, once I gained some traction and started doing well. I made some money, learned how to be a decent broker, and left on good terms. I even have a job waiting for me if I want to come back. Still, I saw Jones ruin a lot of lives, wreck a lot of people's psychological well being and drain a lot of personal bank accounts. I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board. I don't think it is their fault, because, like me, they are just products of the cult. Anyone can be brainwashed. I was. If you are thinking of bailing, then do it. Trust someone who has done it. You'll look back and be glad you did.
[/quote]   How did Jones - the company - ruin anyone's life?  By making them doorknock?  Jones - the company - didn't drain anyone's bank account.  The only people who have been ruined while at Jones are either the people who couldn't make any money and kept trying to swim upstream or the people who literally stole from their clients and got caught.  I have yet to see anyone who did exactly what Jones - the company - told them to do have a negative cash flow.  In fact, it is exactly the opposite.  The only ones I see at Jones with negative cash flow are the ones who are trying to reinvent the wheel and have those "original thoughts" that you were saying were so despised by Jones.    You're throwing a lot of accusations out there: " I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board."  I hope you have some clear factual evidence to back up a phrase like that.  Otherwise, expect the same kind of responses that Mr. 52 received.  Being able to put words together into sentences doesn't mean you don't have some sort of responsibility to back up what you're saying. 

52new:

Track record is a standard generalized definition. While the funds in Advisory solutions have history, since A/S is a fund of fund and the funds are often changing, it’s impossible to determine their history. I don’t have much faith in the E/J analysts that choose the funds. They may be OK. But I’m not ready to invest my money or my customers money in A/S. There are a number of very good fee based plans out there and I’m disappointed that Jones doesn’t offer them. And I don’t see how a Jones FA can survive selling Mutual Funds and trying to live on 10 basis points.

  You don't have much faith in the analysts?  I would bet 1/10th of my months net (still bigger than yours) that you do not know the name of one of those analysts.  I am not saying any of them are good.  I am saying you are full of crap.  I bet you wouldn't know a good mutual fund anyalyst if someone hit you in the head with one.  Come back and share your wisdom when you have been a broker for, oh lets say, 3 years?

Wikipedia says…

    Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be considered strange or sinister.[1] The term was originally used to denote a system of ritual practices.     I don't think Jones is a cult using the above definition. I will say though they do have cult tendencies... but so do other firms (see Spiff I can be balanced).   Example... Ever been to a meeting where other Jones reps are there. I haven't and I know they discourage communication with the outside world.

[quote=BigCheese]Wikipedia says…

    Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be considered strange or sinister.[1] The term was originally used to denote a system of ritual practices.     I don't think Jones is a cult using the above definition. I will say though they do have cult tendencies... but so do other firms (see Spiff I can be balanced).   Example... Ever been to a meeting where other Jones reps are there. I haven't and I know they discourage communication with the outside world.[/quote]   GOD BLESS US....EVERYONE

Must post lengthy rebuttals to anyone criticizing the cult.   [quote=Spaceman Spiff] At least you can put a few thoughts together.  Should make for some interesting banter if you stick around long enough.  You're entitled to your opinion of course, but see my comments below:   [quote=sharksandwich] I did the Ed Jones things myself, starting from scratch and building up a livable income. I would probably still be there, but I had to move to the U.S. for personal reasons, and I was not willing to do the Jones thing again in big city USA (small town Jones and big town Jones are 2 different animals). I have worked for two big boy firms since - one while making the transition to the States, and who was willing to sponsor me for my series 7; and one where I finally landed and stayed. I think Jones training for newbies to the industry is the very best. Seriously. The problem being it is also a cult, and not until one detaches himself from the place can you fully realize what a mind melt the place is. I'm glad I left, and when I see a Jones rep today (I've been doorknocked twice), they have that look that I'm sure I carried. You know the look - kind of a cross between a Scientologist and Amway rep. I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm.

I recently read some academic material on Totalism and cult behaviour, and I kept thinking about Edward Jones. Call it cult lite if you wish, but it is definitely meets the criteria of a cult. Does this sound familiar?-

The Cult Test:
1)The Guru is always right
Anyone else get the urge to puke at hearing of another Ted Jones story, which we heard ad nauseum. Ted Jones is the David Koresh of EDJ. His picture is plastered around the head office in both Canada and St Louis like Stalin.  -  Who do you want them to talk about? Ben Edwards?  Should the company leave the past alone and not talk about how we got to where we are?  The knock against Jones growing to 20,000 FAs is the question of culture.  How do you keep the culture and history alive while growing so quickly?  Answer - you keep talking about the past.  You tell the stories about the origins of the firm and why we are who we are.  They want to keep the feel of the old company around because that's what people like about Jones.   There's a big difference between telling a funny story about eccentric son of the founder of the company who's biggest claim to fame was the doorknocking idea and David Koresh who thought he was a prophet. 
2)You are Always Wrong
Toss out an original thought, and you will quickly be shut down. Do it often and you are labeled a trouble maker. -  There hasn't been an original thought in this industry in 50 years.  Everything is just a repackaging of some old idea.  Who exactly do you get in "trouble" with if you have an "original thought"?  Compliance?  Jim Weddle?  Your RL?  The only one of those three that mean anything at all is the first one.  Worst you're going to get from Weddle is a sarcastic remark in his suggbox response.  And your RL is mostly bark with very little bite.  Dissent away my friend. 
3)No Exit
Read the first post in this thread. It speaks for itself. After year 3, load people up with limited partnerships, and you have them by the short hairs.  - This comment is so factually inaccurate that it doesn't even really warrant a response.   But - Almost nobody in the field has LP after three years.  The timing and their performance isn't normally that well aligned.  You can leave Jones anytime you want.  Do it in the first couple of years and it might cost you or your new firm some cash.  After that, don't let the door hit you on the way out. 
4)No Graduates
Nobody ever rises to the level of the Guru.  - This is true.  There won't ever be another Ted Jones.  There have been better leaders of the firm: Bachmann and Weddle and better advisors - David Lane, Van Pearcy, Tom Bartow, Jim McKenzie, and Troy Nelson to name a few.  But none of those folks were in a position to influence the firm as much as Ted did.  So, he will remain the iconic figure of EDJ, but that's because WE put him there.  It's not because, like Stalin or Koresh, he elevated himself to that level by force, coercion, or drugs.
5)Group think, suppression of dissent
6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can't take it. It's ad hominem, ad nauseum. - If you'll look at the most vocal posts in this thread, they come from non-Jones people.  In fact they come from the very people that I often have some very heated disussions with.  Mr. 52 came on here and put out some just plain stupid comments.  Thus the personal attacks.  If you want ad hominem attacks against Jones, you can find plenty of them here.  Here's one for starters - "I wouldn't listen to anyone's opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm."  Mr. Kettle, meet Mr. Pot.  Hmm...you're both black. 

7)Insistence that the cult is the only way
Sure, they will cut you some slack if you don't do it door to door like a jehovah's witness. They don't care if you get clients using telepathy, but they will only work with and give time for someone to develop if they do it the the fullerbrush thing. - Really?  Do you have any way to prove that?  See, because if you're really doing it the fullerbrush way like Jones suggests, then you more than likely won't have to be having a conversation with anyone about needing more time to "develop."  At least that's what I've seen in my many years with Jones. 
8)The cult and its members are special
How many times have you heard that? Who doesn't want to be special? Now get your ass out there and pound the pavement. - Do you really want your company leaders telling you that you're just a warm body filling a spot in Podunk, AL?  Of course they're going to tell you that you're special.  It's called motivation and morale building. 
9)Induction of guilt - the only guilt I feel is when I don't make enough money to pay my bills.  That guilt comes from my gut, not from Jones.
10) Unquestionable dogma - If the dogma were unquestionable, why would they offer up the Suggbox?  I've never found anyone at Jones unwilling to answer a question posed in a rational manner.  Maybe your RL was different than mine.    11)Appeals to holy or wise authorities
It's been a while... Are they still doing the mentor thing? That was ridiculous. My mentor inherited a Goodknight plan and got $20 miilion in assets on day one. He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple. I started with zip, and built up my $20 million by working for it, and cleaning up the slop from all of the other slaughtered sheep who quit soon after realizing Jones sold them a bill of goods. Of the first fifty brokers in our city (we were all new because Jones was new to Canada), one remains. Countless others came and went in the interum. - So, your mentor taught you nothing about managing money, working with clients, or managing your time?  Sure, he might not have been the right guy to ask about doorknocking, but he surely could have taught you something.  You know, you also could have asked for a different mentor.  For every one story like yours, there are 50 other guys who say they learned a ton from their mentor.    12)Instant Community
13)Instant Intimacy
14)Starry eyed faith
15)Personal testimonies from earlier converts
16)Cloning
Read: "Jones Clones". I think I invented that term. I dare you to find a Jones rep of any stature who doesn't look, smell, walk, talk like a Baptist preacher. - Is there something wrong with Baptist preachers?  I walked into a meeting with Oppenheimer once and the room was full of people with white shirts, striped ties, and blue or black pinstriped suits.  Since all of the meetings that I'd been to up to that point were Jones only events, I was suprised to be at a table with a team from Merrill, an independant guy, and a lady from a bank.  I don't think that look, smell, walk, or talk is Jones specific.  I think it's our industry in general. 
17)Dishonesty, deceit, denial, false promises, yadda yadda yadda - So, are you, like a few others on here, going to tell us that Jones lied to you?  Pray tell...
18)Newcomers can't think right - Because in this business they typically don't know any better until they've been there and done that.
19)Ideology over experience, observation and logic - What ideology exactly is Jones favoring over our experiences, observations, and logic? 

The list goes on (and on, and on, and on). I never realized while I was there that I was under the spell, and I feel bad for being party to all of the manipulation tactics myself, once I gained some traction and started doing well. I made some money, learned how to be a decent broker, and left on good terms. I even have a job waiting for me if I want to come back. Still, I saw Jones ruin a lot of lives, wreck a lot of people's psychological well being and drain a lot of personal bank accounts. I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board. I don't think it is their fault, because, like me, they are just products of the cult. Anyone can be brainwashed. I was. If you are thinking of bailing, then do it. Trust someone who has done it. You'll look back and be glad you did.
[/quote]   How did Jones - the company - ruin anyone's life?  By making them doorknock?  Jones - the company - didn't drain anyone's bank account.  The only people who have been ruined while at Jones are either the people who couldn't make any money and kept trying to swim upstream or the people who literally stole from their clients and got caught.  I have yet to see anyone who did exactly what Jones - the company - told them to do have a negative cash flow.  In fact, it is exactly the opposite.  The only ones I see at Jones with negative cash flow are the ones who are trying to reinvent the wheel and have those "original thoughts" that you were saying were so despised by Jones.    You're throwing a lot of accusations out there: " I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board."  I hope you have some clear factual evidence to back up a phrase like that.  Otherwise, expect the same kind of responses that Mr. 52 received.  Being able to put words together into sentences doesn't mean you don't have some sort of responsibility to back up what you're saying.  [/quote]

Advisor238:

EDJ isn’t perfect but it’s been a good fit for me in a small town setting. 4 years out. 40 million AUC. My first year my income was
$80,000. The next year I made $145,000. I am still in the business
building process, and Edward Jones has been very good for me.

  Sounds like Sammy Sosa "Baseball been very good to me"

chief123:

[quote=Advisor238]EDJ isn’t perfect but it’s been a good fit for me in a small town setting. 4 years out. 40 million AUC. My first year my income was $80,000. The next year I made $145,000. I am still in the business building process, and Edward Jones has been very good for me.

Sounds like Sammy Sosa “Baseball been very good to me”[/quote]



Actually that was Garret Morris from Saturday Night Live. “Bas-a-ball ben bery bery good to me”.

[quote=buyandhold]

[quote=BerkshireBull]Most of the Jones arguments are simply characteristic of every firm in this industry.  What is different about Jones is that their reps hand over books for nothing and then Jones Management gets to choose the winners and the losers.  How is it fair that wind and B24 get huge books given to them and guys like Volt and still@jones get nothing?  I don’t think anyone would have a problem if advisors at Jones had to shell out some money to BUY a book from a retiring or departing broker.  Its that people get something for nothing that makes advisors mad and hurts morale.

[/quote]

Nobody gave B24 a ‘huge book.’

[/quote]

My bad, was it spiff that got one?  The point isn’t really about anyone specifically, I got a leg-up as well, not in assets but in training.  It’s about the system of giving something away for nothing.