2 Years into Jones
121 RepliesJump to last post
[quote=gethardgetraw]Edward Jones
a d o n s Stanford Financial Coincidence? I think not...[/quote] This is one of the best sarcastic posts ever done... On a side note: Why aren't you calling?[quote=52new] Bullsh*t. Only a jones company troll would be this stupid.
Or only a failure two years into Jones could be as stupid as you.
It's ok buddy, we know.
Thy dirty toilets await sir. Gets to cleanin'![/quote]
Right, ever since I fired Meletio, I need a new piker to clean my toilets.
Cash4Gold.com, biatches!
You may think I am nuts, but I actually do enjoy doorknocking. I’m out a year plus but much prefer d/k over sitting there at the phone all day.
I think people get frustrated by doorknocking because they expect way too much out of it. You aren't trying to close the deal at the first doorknock (although that's happened to me once). You're just looking for low-hanging fruit for now and contacts for later. Maybe it's just me being naive, but I think clients are very tuned to our emotional state and the clues it gives off: body language, tone, inflection, etc. I know when I'm not enjoying what I'm doing, neither is my prospect. How many of you have seen a movie or play where an actor seems to just recite lines? If they're not in it, you aren't in it. Our attitudes really do affect our outcome, in my experience. If I am having a crappy month and I'm getting anxious, I am positive it reflects in my calls - tone of voice, being too eager to take the appointment without more information, etc. The prospect knows my call is instinctively more about my interests than his, and he resists. But the opposite is also true. Once I mellow out and just enjoy meeting people, prospects notice that, too. I relax; they relax. Sorry - got long-winded. Bottom line: Jones is right for some and not for others. And I agree with B24 - NO ONE can claim they got all the way to a can-sell date with Jones and NOT be aware of what Jones has to offer. That's a lot like the dude who chain-smoked for 30 years and now screams that his cigarettes gave him cancer.I know a few people that love doorknocking. I think they are insane, but it works for them, and that’s great. My Visiting Vet in STL training several years ago told me that his regional leader told him he had to stop doorknocking. He was told he had way too many prospects and needed to start working all those leads. He was just one of those “serial” doorknockers. He doorknocked everyday for like 3 years. He had like 2500 prospects. He wasn’t kiiling it, but was averaging like 25K per month, and that was like 7 years in (when I knew him).
Also, I think your doorknocking experience differs from region to region. I have heard from FA's in the south that people are very gracious to them at the door. I live in a buttoned-up part of New England. Let's just say people are NOT very gracious in general. Most people up here don't even talk to their neighbors, let alone a stranger banging on their door.I did the Ed Jones things myself, starting from scratch and building up a livable income. I would probably still be there, but I had to move to the U.S. for personal reasons, and I was not willing to do the Jones thing again in big city USA (small town Jones and big town Jones are 2 different animals). I have worked for two big boy firms since - one while making the transition to the States, and who was willing to sponsor me for my series 7; and one where I finally landed and stayed. I think Jones training for newbies to the industry is the very best. Seriously. The problem being it is also a cult, and not until one detaches himself from the place can you fully realize what a mind melt the place is. I’m glad I left, and when I see a Jones rep today (I’ve been doorknocked twice), they have that look that I’m sure I carried. You know the look - kind of a cross between a Scientologist and Amway rep. I wouldn’t listen to anyone’s opinion about them who is currently drinking their kool-aid, because they are most likely jaded by the brainwashing techniques of that nut farm.
I recently read some academic material on Totalism and cult behaviour, and I kept thinking about Edward Jones. Call it cult lite if you wish, but it is definitely meets the criteria of a cult. Does this sound familiar?-
The Cult Test:
1)The Guru is always right
Anyone else get the urge to puke at hearing of another Ted Jones story, which we heard ad nauseum. Ted Jones is the David Koresh of EDJ. His picture is plastered around the head office in both Canada and St Louis like Stalin.
2)You are Always Wrong
Toss out an original thought, and you will quickly be shut down. Do it often and you are labeled a trouble maker.
3)No Exit
Read the first post in this thread. It speaks for itself. After year 3, load people up with limited partnerships, and you have them by the short hairs.
4)No Graduates
Nobody ever rises to the level of the Guru.
5)Group think, suppression of dissent
6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can’t take it. It’s ad hominem, ad nauseum.
7)Insistence that the cult is the only way
Sure, they will cut you some slack if you don’t do it door to door like a jehovah’s witness. They don’t care if you get clients using telepathy, but they will only work with and give time for someone to develop if they do it the the fullerbrush thing.
8)The cult and its members are special
How many times have you heard that? Who doesn’t want to be special? Now get your ass out there and pound the pavement.
9)Induction of guilt
10) Unquestionable dogma
11)Appeals to holy or wise authorities
It’s been a while… Are they still doing the mentor thing? That was ridiculous. My mentor inherited a Goodknight plan and got $20 miilion in assets on day one. He was born on third base and thought he hit a triple. I started with zip, and built up my $20 million by working for it, and cleaning up the slop from all of the other slaughtered sheep who quit soon after realizing Jones sold them a bill of goods. Of the first fifty brokers in our city (we were all new because Jones was new to Canada), one remains. Countless others came and went in the interum.
12)Instant Community
13)Instant Intimacy
14)Starry eyed faith
15)Personal testimonies from earlier converts
16)Cloning
Read: “Jones Clones”. I think I invented that term. I dare you to find a Jones rep of any stature who doesn’t look, smell, walk, talk like a Baptist preacher.
17)Dishonesty, deceit, denial, false promises, yadda yadda yadda
18)Newcomers can’t think right
19)Ideology over experience, observation and logic
The list goes on (and on, and on, and on). I never realized while I was there that I was under the spell, and I feel bad for being party to all of the manipulation tactics myself, once I gained some traction and started doing well. I made some money, learned how to be a decent broker, and left on good terms. I even have a job waiting for me if I want to come back. Still, I saw Jones ruin a lot of lives, wreck a lot of people’s psychological well being and drain a lot of personal bank accounts. I see the same tactics of manipulation, condescension and lies being used by Jones reps on this board. I don’t think it is their fault, because, like me, they are just products of the cult. Anyone can be brainwashed. I was. If you are thinking of bailing, then do it. Trust someone who has done it. You’ll look back and be glad you did.
Dear 52new,
It is always great to read these forums and figure out the only guys complaining about EDJ are the ones like YOU who can't cut it and never will. Quit now. Don't worry about EDJ coming after you. I bet you don't have a big enough AUM to even warrent a transitional FA coming out to your branch. Leave now. Don't send transfer paper's to your client's. Just send an announcement on where you went. You will be lucky if more than 35-40% follow you. If you can live with that, let me know, and I will help you leave now.[quote=sharksandwich]6)Personal attacks on critics.
Look at this
very thread. From the first page, the kool-aid drinkers start labeling
people who voice any objection to Jones as ones who can’t take it. It’s
ad hominem, ad nauseum.[/quote]
[quote=edjgp123]Dear 52new,
This is what I'm talking about. It's sad, I think.
Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK.[quote=edjgp123]Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK. [/quote] So it is okay in your mind to bash Jones if you are not mad and you were making it there when you left?[quote=noggin][quote=edjgp123]Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK. [/quote] So it is okay in your mind to bash Jones if you are not mad and you were making it there when you left?[/quote] There is a difference between bashing Jones with intelligent comments because you disagree with the way they do things, and bashing them like 52new or this guy! We have our differences of opinion on alot of things Jones related Noggin but you always bash with intelligence...these guys are pushing it a bit!Great reply. Thanks. Very helpful. I actually am making it at Jones, but I don’t like the culture. And as I look at more of the practice, I believe the reps, particularly the new ones are getting screwed. Your analogy to a cult is spot on. I intend to build my book with easily trandferable assets(no advisory solutions), and move to an independent when my three years is up. The first sign that Jones is not a forthright company is how they react when they are questioned. I already have a75% offer from an independent, but I want to build my asset base more before I make the move. It’s been a good place to learn, but much of what we learn happens to be wrong.
Thanks for your reply about advisory solutions. My concern is that in a non-qualified account, if the funds in Adv Sol are liquidated upon transfer, it would be a taxable event. So, do the mutual funds in Adv Sol transfer whole, or do they liquidate? One of the reasons I came on with Jones was their position on non-proprietary investments. Now, all we have fee based is Jones Adv Sol. In addition, Adv Sol is a new product without much of a track record. I have considerable personal assets, and I don’t trust Jones analysts enough to put my money there. I won’t make a suggestion to a customer that I wouldn’t do myself.
What is a 75% offer?? I am pretty sure adivsory is like any other fee based program where you can ACAT inkind. Not that it really makes a difference if you are going to change it anyways.. Probably not a lot of gains in the last 3 years..Great reply. Thanks. Very helpful. I actually am making it at Jones, but I don’t like the culture. And as I look at more of the practice, I believe the reps, particularly the new ones are getting screwed. Your analogy to a cult is spot on. I intend to build my book with easily trandferable assets(no advisory solutions), and move to an independent when my three years is up. The first sign that Jones is not a forthright company is how they react when they are questioned. I already have a75% offer from an independent, but I want to build my asset base more before I make the move. It’s been a good place to learn, but much of what we learn happens to be wrong.
Track records? First Ask Ken Heebner about track records.... Second Isn't jones advisory all funds, and don't those funds have track records?Thanks for your reply about advisory solutions. My concern is that in a non-qualified account, if the funds in Adv Sol are liquidated upon transfer, it would be a taxable event. So, do the mutual funds in Adv Sol transfer whole, or do they liquidate? One of the reasons I came on with Jones was their position on non-proprietary investments. Now, all we have fee based is Jones Adv Sol. In addition, Adv Sol is a new product without much of a track record. I have considerable personal assets, and I don’t trust Jones analysts enough to put my money there. I won’t make a suggestion to a customer that I wouldn’t do myself.
[quote=edjgp123]Shark,
I am not bashing people that don't work for EDJ. Just the people who bash EDJ because they are mad they could not make it there. Good luck to you on your new adventure in the UK. [/quote]Thanks.
I think there is a difference in how a person within Jones looks at criticism, and someone who is detached from Jones looks at it. For me it is cerebral, where for someone in the middle of it, it is emotional. For many, working for Jones becomes a part of their self identity, and they see any criticism of Jones as a personal attack - so they respond in kind. I know in my case, when I was in the middle of it all, I would hear criticism from former IR's, and it made me angry.
I am new to this board, but I have logged on here from time to time, and I have read a number of arguments in threads between former and current Jones reps. They become vitriolic and personal. It is akin to arguments about religion and politics, which are two other things that people become defensive of because these things are part of who they are as a person.
The same arguments aren't being made over other firms -- at least not to the same degree of viciousness. I haven't seen another company, in the securities industry or otherwise, with which the employees have such a vested emotional interest. It really is stunning, and gives merit to the claims that Jones reps are brainwashed. I worked for Smith Barney, and I have heard criticism of them many times, both from current and former brokers. I never had the same reaction as I did when someone criticized Jones, and I have never seen other brokers at Smith Barney or other firms react in the same way. I think the reason is because with any other firm on the planet, the brokers' self identity is not tied in with the firm where they work.
I think it is important to understand that the resentments some former Jones brokers have are valid, and it is equally important to know that a criticism of the organization isn't a slam against individual brokers, including you. I'm really appreciative of the friends I made at Jones, although there are very few left from my days there in Canada. Those sheep got slaughtered long ago. I still am friends with some Jones folks I got to know, and I wish them all well. I just wish they could de-program a little.
Track record is a standard generalized definition. While the funds in Advisory solutions have history, since A/S is a fund of fund and the funds are often changing, it’s impossible to determine their history. I don’t have much faith in the E/J analysts that choose the funds. They may be OK. But I’m not ready to invest my money or my customers money in A/S. There are a number of very good fee based plans out there and I’m disappointed that Jones doesn’t offer them. And I don’t see how a Jones FA can survive selling Mutual Funds and trying to live on 10 basis points.
I would be careful using advisory solutions in NQ accounts. I tend to have ETF’s or stocks mixed in with some tax free bonds in those types of accounts because of capital gain exposure. It would be hard to control that if they are constantly rebalancing those funds. It is never a problem to transfer a fee based account in by using in kind. Good luck to you, my offer still stands.