Truth- I'm not backing down from my original point at all.  I'm trying to clarify what I had said. Believe me- I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong. 

At the risk of sounding like an elite SOB, it appears that my business/experience is on a different level.  I've been with both a wirehouse and a wealth management platform.  I've met with probably a thousand clients/prospects during my tenure.  Thus far I've come across 2 individuals who had a RJ account, and never anyone from an independent firm.  My competition is always the same- SB, ML, boutique wealth management firms', etc.  In addition you get the odd Schwab client who has always been a do-it-yourselfer. Perhaps all the clients' with an independant are completely satisfied and aren't looking for any alternatives.  Not likely though- these are muli-millionaire's and their $ is generally with large, well-known firms.

The Judge -

I would check your assumptions if I were you.

Many more accounts are ACATed out of wirehouses to independents than visa versa, and multi-millionaires (ie. high net worth individuals) seem to be seeking out independent advisors at a higher level over the past couple years (see Spectrum survey numbers)

RepSource- These are not my assumptions, they are my experiences. 

Spectrum survey numbers? I don't put a lot of stock into survey/studies.  As I've always said, you can lie while telling the truth- using statistics. 

[quote=The Judge]

Truth- I’m not backing down from my original point at all.  I’m trying to clarify what I had said. Believe me- I’m more than willing to admit when I’m wrong. 

At the risk of sounding like an elite SOB, it appears that my business/experience is on a different level.  I've been with both a wirehouse and a wealth management platform.  I've met with probably a thousand clients/prospects during my tenure.  Thus far I've come across 2 individuals who had a RJ account, and never anyone from an independent firm.  My competition is always the same- SB, ML, boutique wealth management firms', etc.  In addition you get the odd Schwab client who has always been a do-it-yourselfer. Perhaps all the clients' with an independant are completely satisfied and aren't looking for any alternatives.  Not likely though- these are muli-millionaire's and their $ is generally with large, well-known firms.

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[quote=The Judge]

Truth- I’m not backing down from my original point at all.  I’m trying to clarify what I had said. Believe me- I’m more than willing to admit when I’m wrong. 

At the risk of sounding like an elite SOB, it appears that my business/experience is on a different level.  I've been with both a wirehouse and a wealth management platform.  I've met with probably a thousand clients/prospects during my tenure.  Thus far I've come across 2 individuals who had a RJ account, and never anyone from an independent firm.  My competition is always the same- SB, ML, boutique wealth management firms', etc.  In addition you get the odd Schwab client who has always been a do-it-yourselfer. Perhaps all the clients' with an independant are completely satisfied and aren't looking for any alternatives.  Not likely though- these are muli-millionaire's and their $ is generally with large, well-known firms.

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Joedabrker- Your points are well taken.

Personally, I have nothing whatsoever against independants.  No doubt they have much to offer, and many "successful" wirehouse people do indeed go independant for various reasons.  The reason I usually hear is for the higher payout.  In my experience, there really isn't much added pressure at a wirehouse or conflicts.  The only pressure is to produce, which is welcome pressure.  Granted, there is a big push towards fee-based, though I don't consider that pressure as I have targeted that since Day 1 (many years ago).

That said, I do have a bias against many of these "financial planners" who generally feel that insurance (i.e. whole life, annuities, variable life, etc) are the panacea for everyone's situation.  Basically, they just want to collect a large commission upfront, and not have to continually deal with the client.

The reason I usually hear is for the higher payout.

That's because you aren't listening very well. 

Over and over on this board we who have gone independent stress the .....get ready for it.....INDEPENDENCE.   There is of course something to be said for getting paid more for the work we do.....but I cannot stress enough the value of being my own person, being able to work at my own pace, and offer the investments that I feel are appropriate and have a much much much (did I say much) larger universe of investments to choose from.

I do have a bias against many of these "financial planners" who generally feel that insurance is the panacea for everyone's situation. 

Well, me too. But just because someone has an independent financial planning practice, do assume that insurance is all that is offered.  That is insulting and extremely incorrect. Most of us who post here have the full range of stocks, bonds, mutual funds, reits and (at least in my case) have insurance products (annuities, life etc) as a very small percentage of our books.

By the way...panacea....it's nice to see a big word used properly and spelled correctly too.  I'm impressed.

to assume… doh! …not do assume. 

Proof reading is our friend.

Babbliing Looney- First let me say that (generally) I sincerely enjoy your posts and think that you have much in terms of knowledge/wisdom to share to this "forum."

That said, what about being independant is actually freedom? I can tell you (from a decade+ of experience) that a wirehouse offers the same allure.  You choose your schedule, the clients you choose to work with, the products you recommend, etc.  As long as you produce, mgmt could care less how you spend your day or what you invest clients' $ into. "Getting paid more" is another matter altogether, though many of the clients' would have never been attained w/out working for a well-known firm.  It is what it is.  A wirehouse/wealth management platform has the entire investment universe to choose from.  Period. 

Regarding independant financial planners- I am only speaking from my experience.  It's one thing to be able to offer a fulll range of stocks/bonds/managers/etc yet it's quite another to put most everything in insurance products that provide the "max chop" is another.  You aren't dealing with a rookie here- I know what I see.

As the saying goes, "that's what makes horse racing". 

Judge, we're not rookies either.  Frankly, I like my practice just the way it is.  The allure of indy, and I believe that I'm speaking for several of my compatriots here, is that I can build a business just the way I want it.  And I'm speaking here of something larger than a 'book of business', I'm speaking of the business itself.  Who I choose to hire, benefits packages, aw hell...even the color of the walls.  Some folks couldn't be bothered by details like that...so the wirehouse works well for them, and that's as it should be.

Let's face it.  We'd be making good coin anywhere we worked.  But we chose to build something while we're at it.

[quote=The Judge]

That said, what about being independant is actually freedom? I can tell you (from a decade+ of experience) that a wirehouse offers the same allure.  You choose your schedule, the clients you choose to work with, the products you recommend, etc.  As long as you produce, mgmt could care less how you spend your day or what you invest clients' $ into. "Getting paid more" is another matter altogether, though many of the clients' would have never been attained w/out working for a well-known firm.  It is what it is.  A wirehouse/wealth management platform has the entire investment universe to choose from.  Period. 

Regarding independant financial planners- I am only speaking from my experience.  It's one thing to be able to offer a fulll range of stocks/bonds/managers/etc yet it's quite another to put most everything in insurance products that provide the "max chop" is another.  You aren't dealing with a rookie here- I know what I see.

[/quote]

"Independence" is the difference between looking at where you ended up at the end of the month and being most concerned with how it affects your personal bank account, rather than looking at where you ended up and being most concerned with what your "regional leader" might think, or what the other 10 people in the region that have access to the numbers might think.

"Independence" is the difference between making a recommendation to a client to adjust their portfolio and not having to worry about how you will have to "sell" it to field supervision because it is a move from one preferred mutual fund company to another. Or a preferred mutual fund company to a non-preferred mutual fund company.

When I made the decision to go independent, it began as a financial decision. When I finally did it I realized it was primarily about other things, least of all financial.

It seems that many independants (on this forum) have somewhat of a distorted view of today's wirehouse.  I can only speak from my experience, but I can tell you that there is absolutely no pressure whatsoever to sell "proprietary" or "preferred fund" providers.  As I've mentioned, the only real push is to a fee-based arrangement.  Regarding mutual funds, we have something like 8000 different funds to offer clients.  The compensation per share class is identical for every one, with the exception of no-load fund families that (ironically) we offer.  Compliance has always been part of the business, and I believe that is why there is such a push towards fee-based.  That and the fact that the firms love "predictable/recurring revenue."

Frankly, I could care less about what my peers or regional leader thinks about my numbers.  I'm only paid on what I produce, nothing more, nothing less. 

This is in no way a bash on independents.  Certainly it has it's advantages, as many advisors take that path. 

Judge-



I tend to agree with you except Jones is the exception here. If you do not

sell their prop. funds, i.e. preferred funds then your tenure will be short

lived. That is why Jones is a good breeding grounds for the Indy platform.

But as far as the major wirehouses I tend to see what you are saying.

Truth- Why will the tenure be short lived? Would they actually push out a top producer, assuming there are no compliance issues?

Also, why would an established broker stay at Edward Jones instead of going indy?

The Truth:

...a book on their own, are less than 45 years of age and understand that they might need some more bullets in their gun to be competitive in the future. This crowd is where I see the recruiters making some big waves.

(emphasis added)

--------------------------------

I'm indy and 48 years old. I'm at the gym at 5AM (M-F) doing weightlifting and aerobic exercises, then off to work at 6:30AM. I get home at around 6PM and finish paperwork around 7PM. Afterward, I spend about 1.5 hours every night surfing different boards, looking for new investment/marketing ideas. I never surf the web on a workday. I spend my weekends reading what I didn't get to during the week. I don't mow my yard or wash my car, because I don't have time (I hire someone to do that). I've been in this business since '92 and married to the same woman for 19 years.

I was in a partnership with 2 ex-buddies, 10 years ago. One of them tried to screw me by trying to become the boss and taking my clients. The other partner just did nothing to stop him and ended up working for him. I left and took the entire client list with me. I took away my clients and enough of theirs; such that, the "boss" partner had to fire the other partner and 5 other employees. The "boss" partner now has tax liens against him and his only employee is his wife.

This job is my passion, my hobby, and my sport!

The point to all this rambling?

Don't discount someone because of their age, because I'm still competitive as hell.

Forget about age; let's talk about the "Titanic" of leaving.

Had a broker in our office leave late last year.  Thought he would bring 85-90% with him, and that is 85-90% of a VERY large asset base.  Took a big check for various reasons and took off.  Thus far he has been able to bring over approx. 20% of his accounts, and his gross (likely) is down over 75% from last year.  Worse than that- 4 clients make up over 80% of his gross and the previous firm (my firm) has met with 3 of these clients and is in the process of ACAT'ing the accounts back over, due to the pittiful returns the clients have been receiving from this broker.  Talk about a world of hurt.

My question is this: what will the broker's new firm do about this?  He in essence, promised production that was significantly higher than what will occur.  His trailing 12 was the proof, but it's just not going to happen.  In a year, he will likely be looking at an 80% reduction in gross from 2005, his trailing 12.  Can he just sit back and laugh at the new firm which paid him big $$ to come over?

[quote=The Truth]1) You won’t find an established broker who does not sell prop. funds

first of all. That pretty much takes care of the rest. The business if built

on transferring in good funds and blowing them into prop funds. An

honest broker who actually performs due dilligence on assets transferred

in won’t survive long enough to make it.



2) Security and the lack of desire or need to move. Let’s take rural

Arkansas for starters. You have a big hitter out there making $750 gross.

Has the nicest house in town that he/she paid cash for. Living large thus

no need to shake things up. Program is on pilot control, they have no

oversight of their business, have a direct pipeling to upper management

if someone does. I can see why it is hard to convince them. But the

future of this firm lies in the hands of the few brokers out there that built

a book on their own, are less than 45 years of age and understand that

they might need some more bullets in their gun to be competitive in the

future. This crowd is where I see the recruiters making some big waves.[/quote]

You are wrong sir.  There are plenty of established advisers who do not sell proprietary products at all.  Most of them are independent!

No pressure to sell prop or preferred products?  Either you’re naive or you are the one who does not truly understand the wire world.
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Sorry for my lack of response.  I have been extremely busy my boa came in on the weekend and worked 7.5 hrs to catch up with transfer paperwork. 

As for the guy who thinks I am soliciting my clients I am not.  I sent the tombstone letter.  And I have not called one client.  I have been too busy transfering accts to call anyone even return calls.  The Transfer rep called all my clients and the new ir taking the office over is begging people not to leave.   But people continue call to schedule appointments with my boa  and we transfer the stuff in.  The funny thing is they are also bringing statements from other firms to transfer with it. 

I am getting congratulations on a "step up"  and "wow this is way nicer than that office across the street". 

Of Friday the 2 week mark I roughly added up the transfer assets and we are between 1/3 and 1/2 of the assets already in transit.  I am behind on 25 accounts that I need to open and transfer.  I don't know how much money is in that stack. 

I am so HAPPY with the move.  This is the best thing I ever did.  I can't belive how hard jones made it to do business.  I opened my first fee based account and it is going to pay my office rent for me.  My stress level has gone down alot.  

I equate jones to an abusive realationship.  The abused spouse stays there because they hope it will get better.  I stayed at jones too long hoping it woulud get better.  It never did, it got worse.  Finally I couldn't take it any longer and left.  And they wonder why the ex jones brokers hate jones.

Sorry I don't have time to proof read this but I have a client waiting for me to transfer her acct over.    

doberman, looney and jdexe:
I was wondering with what independent b/d have you all gone with?
also are you all thinking about going RIA in the future?