[quote=bspears]Robyn,

Keep posting...Everyone on here is posting about stress and how tough things are...but they're right here posting instead of talking with clients or prospects about what they should be doing right now.  I like your posts...articulate, mature and spot on.  [/quote]   Yeah, spow own, and in post-industrial, post racist, post sexist Americar, we neet sum Sheilas on this board.   Spears, you go ahead and take all the new biz this year, and take the profits and pay the taxes. I'm on strike.

RobynG:

[quote=skbroker]I have a client like robyn g. They like to have large account with wirehouses to have an ego but never appreciates what u do for them. When their account moves up n value it’s the market but blames u for any losses. They ll try to squeeze out every penny out of the bond credit but never says thank u for any discounts.   They also think that they have more knowledge in investments but realistically have less than those fa who just passes series 7

  I don't generalize about FAs - and you shouldn't generalize about clients.  I have about as much ego involved in picking and staying with an FA (or a financial services firm) as I do when picking and staying with a health care provider.  I am looking for a good degree of knowledge - competent service - and reasonable pricing - in both (e.g., I will never again go to a health care provider where 75% of the clients are un/under-insured and my bills are twice what the Mayo Clinic charges).  Not that my accounts demand much service (there's not much "turnover").  As for not appreciating things - speak for your own clients - not me.  E.g., I've sent flowers to one of my FAs (a woman) as a "thank you" for some great help with something.  Other gifts for some OTT service.   I freely admit I have expertise in only one area - fixed income.  And I know more than the average FA (I don't necessarily know what you make on things - but I do know what I pay - which is all that matters to me).  And I have both the time and inclination to do research when necessary.  Let me give you a "for example".  I assume at least some of you have clients with muni bonds in insurance wrappers where the wrappers are now next to worthless (or worthless).  Have any of you personally undertaken an analysis of the underlying credit quality of those bonds in the last year (I always used to look at underlying credit quality of insured munis when I bought them - but never looked again until last year) - something that goes behind the bond ratings?  Admittedly - after doing a lot of work (helped in some cases by an FA who dug up ancient prospectuses) - I wound up identifying some bonds that I couldn't figure out in terms of sell/hold.  But I did the best I could short of attending water utility board meetings.  If any issues go belly up - I will not blame anyone.  Because no one could have foreseen what is happening today 5 years ago.   Do you do any independent credit analysis on companies which issue annuities?  I don't own annuities - but my father owns some immediate fixed income annuities.  Some from AIG and other "fallen stars".  In his case - it doesn't make much of a difference now - because the cash value of those annuities is almost zilch (he is 91 and bought the annuities quite a while back).  But it would make a big difference in terms of a client investing today.   Have you ever done TA on any NYSE listed corporates your clients own (you can actually get the price data on listed bonds and chart them)?  To figure out whether to buy/sell/hold?    Note that I wouldn't blame you for not doing this kind of work (you probably have lots of clients with tons of different investments).  And you probably have bigger fish to fry these days - the clients who are at their wit's end due to losses in portfolio value - reduced dividends - etc. (one reason I haven't spoken to either of my FA's at full service firms more than a few times in the last year - they're frazzled).  But don't assume something about a person without knowing that person.   And you know - if you hate a client - you can fire a client.  At some point in my law practice - I figured the 20% of my clients that I hated took more than 20% of my time and were responsible for less than 20% of the business gross.  They weren't worth it - so I "fired" all of them.  Clients can fire professionals - and professionals can fire clients.  Life is too short to deal with people you don't like - for whatever reason.  Robyn   P.S.  A lot of you guys (and women) seem to be really tense and defensive.  Which I can understand these days.  It's a ridiculously difficult period in terms of investing.  Just don't use me as a pinata because I happen to be here. [/quote]   Robyn, based on this post I'd rate you an informed buyer. That's not a bad thing, but!   I like informed buyers but there is a problem. That is, their expertise at times gets in the way of a good deal. For example, today I had an IDA bond that for all intents and purposes is a G.O. bond. In fact, it's such a strong credit, we call it a back door G.O. bond. However, the credit backing the bond used an obscure authority to get the deal done leaving the issue with a less than stellar investment grade rating.  This bond is an opportunity for those who invest in it. The problem with the "informed buyer" is that when bonds like this come on the market they go very fast. Faster than the informed buyer can ramp up their research machine. By the time they call back, the bond in most cases, is gone.   For that reason trust is a major component of all my client relationships. Once we are beyond the intial get to know you stage, if you don't trust me, you are gone. That doesn't mean my clients need to buy everything I show them. It does mean they can turn me down for any reason, except "I've got to check it out myself. "  The fact is, if this bond didn't fit their parameters, and didn't pass my sleep at night test, they wouldn't have gotten the call.   Hopefully, you trust your advisors enough to defer to their judgement when a quick decision is called for.  

[quote=BondGuy][

  Robyn, based on this post I'd rate you an informed buyer. That's not a bad thing, but!   I like informed buyers but there is a problem. That is, their expertise at times gets in the way of a good deal. For example, today I had an IDA bond that for all intents and purposes is a G.O. bond. In fact, it's such a strong credit, we call it a back door G.O. bond. However, the credit backing the bond used an obscure authority to get the deal done leaving the issue with a less than stellar investment grade rating.  This bond is an opportunity for those who invest in it. The problem with the "informed buyer" is that when bonds like this come on the market they go very fast. Faster than the informed buyer can ramp up their research machine. By the time they call back, the bond in most cases, is gone.   For that reason trust is a major component of all my client relationships. Once we are beyond the intial get to know you stage, if you don't trust me, you are gone. That doesn't mean my clients need to buy everything I show them. It does mean they can turn me down for any reason, except "I've got to check it out myself. "  The fact is, if this bond didn't fit their parameters, and didn't pass my sleep at night test, they wouldn't have gotten the call.   Hopefully, you trust your advisors enough to defer to their judgement when a quick decision is called for.  [/quote]   Interesting post - but .   I am better when it comes to interest rate analysis than credit quality analysis.  So I decided a *really* long time ago that I would only buy state/city/county GOs with strong credit ratings - and higher quality essential services revenue bonds.  After the last year - well I've been so nervous (doesn't make me unique) that I've been sticking with state GO's.  I did a fair amount of "opportunistic buying" in the last year or so when hedge funds and the like were throwing munis out the window.  Got some pretty good deals.   A general suggestion in case you guys are trying to juggle a lot of balls.  I assume most/all of you have access to data.  Keep a running chart of the Bond Buyer Index somewhere (unfortunately - the muni bond futures contract is history - I used to like that too).  It was easy last year seeing when the market was going nuts and it was time to "go shopping".   I used to do a lot of corporates (straight debt - no preferreds).  Over the years - I got rid of most of them due to credit quality concerns (sold Ford, GM, etc. years ago).  Sold Nationsbank (BAC) early this year.  And now have only 2 individual corporates left (and a small trading position in a junk ETF).  I no longer trust credit ratings - and have concerns watching the government trying to "strong arm" GM/Chrysler bondholders into giving up valid claims against debtor assets.  Reminds me of when ITT broke into 3 parts and strong-armed its bondholders (I was one) with a below-market deal with the threat - "we'll turn the company into junk if you don't take it".  I would rather wait for callable or other CD yields to go up than get involved with individual corporate bonds again.   I don't think this bothers my FAs - because I have been with them so long (longest is 20+ years - and shortest is perhaps 5 - and that is at E*Trade) that they know what I like to buy.  They don't bother me with stuff they know I won't buy - and I call them when I see items of interest.  Even if they're a little weird (like I own some "yield curve inversion CDs" - a portfolio manager friend of mine freaked out when he saw them - didn't understand how they could be sold in the retail market - on my part - I think they're about as easy to understand as TIPS - which aren't all that easy IMO although everyone is recommending them these days).   IOW - I have always been a "belt and suspenders" kind of investor.  And now I'm wearing two belts and two sets of suspenders.  Really boring.  Getting some extra BP won't change my lifestyle - but may cause me to lose sleep.  Not worth it (at least for me).  Obviously - other investors may be a lot different than I am.  And what you're talking about may be of great value to them.   Now I do need a little financial excitement once in a while.  So I system trade part of my IRA (mostly in equities).  But I have had just about all the excitement I can stand recently!  And this year - I've made about as much as I lost last year.  Running hard to stay in place .  If you have a great trading system for this market - let me know .   I hope I haven't offended anyone by saying too much about myself.  But sometimes I think it would be a useful exercise if every individual investor spent a couple of hours writing a short essay about his investments - with emphasis on goals - and special emphasis on risk tolerance - and showing it to his FA.  And this would be a great time to do it IMO - because so much conventional wisdom (like buying bank stocks because the dividends were "safe") has been blown out of the water in the last year.  Robyn  

[QUOTE]Robyn, you do realize that it was joke that was brought on by you saying, “I don’t have to please anyone - except my husband .  Think about that.”?

  It comes from an old joke.  Question: "What's the perfect woman?"  Answer: "Someone waist high, with no teeth, and a flat head to hold your beer."   Anyway, my apologies if you found this offensive.  It was not my intention.[/quote]   Apology accepted.  And I actually found it kind of funny because I have dental implants.  You obviously had no way of knowing that - but I doubt a mouth full of titanium and gold with little spikes is what you had in mind .  Robyn

[quote=RobynG][QUOTE]Robyn, you do realize that it was joke that was brought on by you saying, “I don’t have to please anyone - except my husband .  Think about that.”?

  It comes from an old joke.  Question: "What's the perfect woman?"  Answer: "Someone waist high, with no teeth, and a flat head to hold your beer."   Anyway, my apologies if you found this offensive.  It was not my intention.[/quote]   Apology accepted.  And I actually found it kind of funny because I have dental implants.  You obviously had no way of knowing that - but I doubt a mouth full of titanium and gold with little spikes is what you had in mind .  Robyn[/quote]   See, that's what I'm talking about, you're doing kinky smily faced apologies to gruff brokers and slapping around your own financial advisors. How is this different than rough sex?

Mishigun:

No offense to BG, retail bond peddling is knowledge based, high touch and personal, and generally more expensive to clients. I’d go with ETF and managed sector funds ( discounted unrated munis, whatever) in a wrap, and focus on the bigger planning picture and service. And, nobody around in general is admitting much of anything about certain bonds that “blew up” recently. I realize you have to pick your time frames, I’m just wondering how much value gets added. Maybe BG is an exception, I doubt if he is a rocket scientist. He has just as much right as the Jones guy to specialize and make a living, I doubt if the result is much different.

  You are right.  Putting together a bond portfolio is very "hands on".   The main problem with ETFs and mutual funds is that they lack one important feature of individual bonds.  I.e., a fixed maturity date.  I've owned (high quality) bonds over the decades that have fluctuated 30 points or more due to interest rate fluctuations.  Remember that 70's show?  But - as long as the credit quality was good - all you had to do was buy and hold 'til maturity to get all your principal back.  This is true whether you're talking about a 5 year CD ladder - or a 30 year muni ladder.  Now whether we will see state bankruptcies down the road - or the FDIC not paying off on CDs - well I can't tell you what the future holds.  But states didn't go bankrupt even in the Great Depression - and the FDIC has always paid when banks go belly up.  Perhaps this will all change in the future - but I wouldn't bet on it just now.  Like Art Cashin says - don't bet on the end of the world - because it will only come once.   I do believe that some ETFs and mutual funds may be useful for some people and some purposes.  For example - I never put enough into junk bonds to diversify - and I trade in that area - so I don't buy individual bonds.  There is also the matter of diversification for a small bond holder.  But anyone who isn't putting at least $100k in munis probably doesn't need the tax advantage (at least when tax-free/taxable yield differentials are normal - which they aren't today).  And - even with only with $100k - just buy 4-5 high quality issues and be done with it.  Plus - there is the matter of expense ratios.  When you are making 4-6%/year - 1%/year more or less eats up a lot of your income.   FWIW - I know about lots of bonds that have "blown up" in the last year.  Some - like small muni issues - blew up (in terms of pricing) because no one can figure out what they're worth (some small issuers never bothered to pay for underlying ratings - they just bought insurance - so they are a big ??? for a trading desk that doesn't have the time or inclination to figure out how to price a $25k trade).  Others - including many corporates - blew up because the underlying credit quality went from very good to horrible.  I don't disagree with you - but did you have any particular bonds in mind?  Robyn   P.S.  One area that used to be highly touted was muni funds that used leverage (borrowing short and buying long).  Works great sometimes - but can blow up in your face.   P.P.S.  Don't know TPTB here - or how the software works.  But perhaps this discussion about bonds can be set up in a new thread on bonds.  Doesn't have much to do with the original questions about bankruptcy.    

[quote=RobynG] 

Interesting post - but .   I am better when it comes to interest rate analysis than credit quality analysis.  So I decided a *really* long time ago that I would only buy state/city/county GOs with strong credit ratings - and higher quality essential services revenue bonds.  After the last year - well I've been so nervous (doesn't make me unique) that I've been sticking with state GO's.  I did a fair amount of "opportunistic buying" in the last year or so when hedge funds and the like were throwing munis out the window.  Got some pretty good deals.   A general suggestion in case you guys are trying to juggle a lot of balls.  I assume most/all of you have access to data.  Keep a running chart of the Bond Buyer Index somewhere (unfortunately - the muni bond futures contract is history - I used to like that too).  It was easy last year seeing when the market was going nuts and it was time to "go shopping".     I don't think this bothers my FAs - because I have been with them so long (longest is 20+ years - and shortest is perhaps 5 - and that is at E*Trade) that they know what I like to buy.  They don't bother me with stuff they know I won't buy - and I call them when I see items of interest.  Even if they're a little weird (like I own some "yield curve inversion CDs" - a portfolio manager friend of mine freaked out when he saw them - didn't understand how they could be sold in the retail market - on my part - I think they're about as easy to understand as TIPS - which aren't all that easy IMO although everyone is recommending them these days).   IOW - I have always been a "belt and suspenders" kind of investor.  And now I'm wearing two belts and two sets of suspenders.  Really boring.  Getting some extra BP won't change my lifestyle - but may cause me to lose sleep.  Not worth it (at least for me).  Obviously - other investors may be a lot different than I am.  And what you're talking about may be of great value to them.    Robyn  [/quote]   There was a buying opportunity in munis last year? Damn, i must have been juggling another ball!   Robyn, could you do us a favor? Next time you see a buying opportunity could you chime in?    With all the bond peddling and all, you understand, we don't have time to pay attention. THX BG

clang:

RobynG…your posts are fking irritating. You are killing the vibe here. You seem like a nice lady, but this is a locker room. Frankly, I ( we ) don’t give a rats a** about you or your portfolio.

 Most women as bored or boring as you would have an affair instead. Help us out, go join that club and find something else to do.

Thanks.

PS. ever seen that bumper sticker. “Encylopedias for sale. Just got married. Fking wife knows everything”

PPS. get one for your hubby.

  Make my day. 

[quote=Mishigun]

Okay, I know I'll catch some s*** for this. Robyn, you seem like a nice person, but on this board, you sound like a kid in a candy shop. And I'm not trying to be sexist, I think the following applies to both genders: I knew a hot young woman I trained with years ago, she said the "selling" of ideas in this business is like having sex with someone you just met. Consider getting spending some money, and getting laid. Who cares about you losing some sleep because you're not betting some extra BP? Try paying ticket charges and getting calls from your compliance guy, and drinking too much when the US financial system caves and you're ABC.

[/quote]   Can't say I know anything about getting calls from compliance officers - but I was in Paris the first week or so October last year.  Maybe the only person in the hotel without a Blackberry.  Watching a slow motion train wreck from abroad.  Came home late on 10/9.  And woke up totally jet-lagged to watch the action 10/10.  Reminded me of an earlier trip (we flew home from the UK the Sunday before Black Monday in 1987 after spending the weekend stranded in Oxfordshire after the "Hurricane of 1987").   But that is neither here nor there.  You (in the collective sense - not you individually) are professionals - and you have clients.  Probably many in their late 50's - and older - many much older.  And a lot of their financial planning/portfolios for retirement - or their current retirements - are in ruins.  I don't blame you for hitting the bottle (I've been known to do so myself) - but many of you are young.  And can pick up the pieces.  Ask the 80-90 year old in my father's independent living retirement community who can longer afford the rent and has to move in with kids what he (or most likely she) thinks.  These people are crushed - absolutely crushed.  And they don't have the luxury that a younger person has - the luxury of time - to rebuild their lives.   And I'm not taking into account the Madoff victims here in Florida.  I'm Jewish - and everyone here knows someone who knows someone who was wiped out.  Not only the really rich people in Palm Beach (who probably should have known better) - but the elderly widows of dentists and doctors and the like who lived in more modest circumstances - people who had high six or low seven figure net worths.  Those without helping/caring children (or any children) have turned into bag ladies virtually overnight.   I am no kid - much less one in a candy shop.  I have represented people on death row - and I can tell you that it is probably harder to face a client who "lived by the rules" - spent modestly - but who is now looking into the financial abyss - than to represent a murderer.   Go on a bender now and then if it suits you (sometimes it suits me).  But wake up on Monday morning and try to figure out how best to help your family - your clients - and people in your community .  Particularly those who are older - and didn't simply lose their "latte money".  Give - your time - your skills - your money - whatever you can afford to give that might make a difference in peoples' lives and bring them back from the precipice.  IOW - grow up.  My father was a teenager in the Great Depression- and - if you want to know what it meant to grow up in hard times - becoming a man long before you were meant to be a man - ask someone his age.  Robyn     

Reportedly  Wells Fargo Advisors is offering to let AGE reps extend out their retention loan and at a lower % rate.    And are allowing harship withdrawls from the 401k plan…

maybe the should offers some relief on the hurdle, minimum commissions, and ticket charges !?     FA's are hurting out there.... SP500 is where it ws 10 years ago.. . a lost decade.

Id tell a client to face reality.

Do the nasty crap you have to do to survive.   (sell stuff, beg credittors, make momma work, etc)    No "hopeing" or "denial" f your ego   acceptance tell the family get everyone on board lose stuff you dont absolutly need to survive   focus on positive stuff to survive work you ass off like a rookie to do gross   honesty this wil allow you to do the crap you need to do.   work every MF angle   like a stock you bought higher market doesnt give a crap what you paid.   your reality is the only thing that matters dont waste time on "what ifs" or any other negative crap   dont beat yourself up screwing up is huamn   HOW you handle it is everything stuff happens for a reason