Anyone here having to consider bankruptcy?
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No one cares about your life experiences and your knowledge in bonds so why don’t u just move on.
[quote=ytrewq]Robyn,
Your father's "immediate fixed income annuity" would not have ALMOST zilch in cash value. It would BE zilch. It has been zilch since the day he annuitized it. That is one of the main features (not necessarily benefits) of an immediate annuity. Lifetime income (or some various form of it) and no current cash value.[/quote] We actually called AIG (among other companies). They were willing to cash him out at about 8-9% of cash he paid. Which sounds about right. Fixed annuities are X% return of principal - Y% in interest. Until you're about 12-13 years into them - you are still getting mostly return of principal. That's the way the IRS sees it - and that's apparently the way the company sees it too. FWIW - I was doing this math in terms of figuring out what the annuity would be worth if the company went under and we had to make a claim under state insurance guaranty fund laws. YMMV depending on what question you're trying to answer. Robyn[quote=Mishigun]
This is a business about building trusts and relationships. Most of the folks here have learned a lot about reading people, and many might question your "cred" based on some of the things you have said. Even newby door knockers get more "instant cred" than the hit I get from you. You don't demonstrate much people knowlege, I give you a "pass" on your exposure to personal finance concepts.
[/quote] You're someone who sells stuff. I am not selling anything. I don't have to please anyone - except my husband . Think about that. RobynRobyn, if he’s the only one that you are trying to please, just take out your teeth.
Many of you guys are a pretty sorry excuse for your profession. What is this - a chat board just to commiserate with one another and bad mouth clients? Just FWIW - I get at least 2 or more cold calls a week. Today’s was Suntrust from Atlanta - whatever that is in terms of a brokerage firm - don’t have a clue (at 12:15 pm - don’t they know when people eat lunch?). But even though I am always - “thanks but no thanks” - I try to be positive - and try to have some encouraging words to say to the younger FAs who have to “cold call”. Because I was there once in terms of trying to get clients - and because I am a civilized person. Which - apparently - you are not. Luckily - I will not take out what you say on them. Robyn
[quote=anonymous]
Don't you have 30% credit card interest because you have proven yourself uncredit worthy? Instead of going to another firm, shouldn't you be looking for a different career?
If you quit making payments on your debt because you truly can't afford to pay, eventually you'll be able to settle for 40% or less on the dollar.
[/quote] Does the idea of not paying until collections screw with your license in some way?[quote=RobynG][quote=Mishigun]
This is a business about building trusts and relationships. Most of the folks here have learned a lot about reading people, and many might question your "cred" based on some of the things you have said. Even newby door knockers get more "instant cred" than the hit I get from you. You don't demonstrate much people knowlege, I give you a "pass" on your exposure to personal finance concepts.
[/quote] You're someone who sells stuff. I am not selling anything. I don't have to please anyone - except my husband . Think about that. Robyn[/quote] Now we're getting somewhere. We all sell our ideas continuously, and selling is totally based on emotions and relationships and trust. So you have to admit, the anonymous comment about taking out your false teeth is pretty funny. Maybe it takes an old broker to appreciate it, but there's not a mean bone in it.We post here because sometimes, this is the f****** coolest profession in the world. And you know it. But I'm starting to wonder if you are PD groupie from way back...Many of you guys are a pretty sorry excuse for your profession. What is this - a chat board just to commiserate with one another and bad mouth clients? Just FWIW - I get at least 2 or more cold calls a week. Today’s was Suntrust from Atlanta - whatever that is in terms of a brokerage firm - don’t have a clue (at 12:15 pm - don’t they know when people eat lunch?). But even though I am always - “thanks but no thanks” - I try to be positive - and try to have some encouraging words to say to the younger FAs who have to “cold call”. Because I was there once in terms of trying to get clients - and because I am a civilized person. Which - apparently - you are not. Luckily - I will not take out what you say on them. Robyn
[quote=ytrewq]Robyn,
Your father's "immediate fixed income annuity" would not have ALMOST zilch in cash value. It would BE zilch. It has been zilch since the day he annuitized it. That is one of the main features (not necessarily benefits) of an immediate annuity. Lifetime income (or some various form of it) and no current cash value.[/quote]"Cash Value" used as an insurance term would be zero.
However, the income stream derived from the annuity does have a present value, which is dependent upon mortality assumptions and the discount rate you select. I would assume that is what RobynG means speaking from the standpoint of an educated layperson.
As an advisor, wouldn't you be expected to make an effort to understand what people are actually trying to communicate rather than nitpicking?
Robyn, you do realize that it was joke that was brought on by you saying, "I don't have to please anyone - except my husband . Think about that."? It comes from an old joke. Question: "What's the perfect woman?" Answer: "Someone waist high, with no teeth, and a flat head to hold your beer." Anyway, my apologies if you found this offensive. It was not my intention.Many of you guys are a pretty sorry excuse for your profession. What is this - a chat board just to commiserate with one another and bad mouth clients? Just FWIW - I get at least 2 or more cold calls a week. Today’s was Suntrust from Atlanta - whatever that is in terms of a brokerage firm - don’t have a clue (at 12:15 pm - don’t they know when people eat lunch?). But even though I am always - “thanks but no thanks” - I try to be positive - and try to have some encouraging words to say to the younger FAs who have to “cold call”. Because I was there once in terms of trying to get clients - and because I am a civilized person. Which - apparently - you are not. Luckily - I will not take out what you say on them. Robyn
Indy,
I’ve always enjoyed your posts and now I know why.
Its great to know there are other people who can live without asking a bank for every little or big purchase in their life. Banks are great but we can learn to live without a loan for everything.
For all the advisers considering Bankruptcy, how does it feel to be giving someone advice about finances when you can’t maintain your own? Shi**y I presume…
Guy at my MS branch, just got a pt job loading truck for major freight company M/W..3:am to 7:00am. 27.00 an hour and pays for his family health insurance. He did 400K in 2007, 300K in 2008. He told me and one other guy, at lunch last week. He rolls in now to the office at 7:30 instead of at 7:00...no one else notices the difference. Sign of the times.Indy,
I’ve always enjoyed your posts and now I know why.
Its great to know there are other people who can live without asking a bank for every little or big purchase in their life. Banks are great but we can learn to live without a loan for everything.
For all the advisers considering Bankruptcy, how does it feel to be giving someone advice about finances when you can’t maintain your own? Shi**y I presume…
its obvious that you’re not pleasing your husband enough or else you wouldn’t be spending hours on this board.
[quote=HymanRoth] [quote=ytrewq]Robyn,
Your father's "immediate fixed income annuity" would not have ALMOST zilch in cash value. It would BE zilch. It has been zilch since the day he annuitized it. That is one of the main features (not necessarily benefits) of an immediate annuity. Lifetime income (or some various form of it) and no current cash value.[/quote]"Cash Value" used as an insurance term would be zero.
However, the income stream derived from the annuity does have a present value, which is dependent upon mortality assumptions and the discount rate you select. I would assume that is what RobynG means speaking from the standpoint of an educated layperson.
As an advisor, wouldn't you be expected to make an effort to understand what people are actually trying to communicate rather than nitpicking?
[/quote] Yes Hyman, as an advisor, you are mostly right. However, start making trades based on your opinion of what someone "meant" versus what they actually told you verbatim to do and I bet you get yourself a complaint or lawsuit or two. I was not trying to play an advisor to RobynG. I was trying to play someone posting on an internet forum. Robyn was explaining, in detail, how she does far more thorough and accurate analysis and research than most "advisors" on this site. I politely pointed out a mistake of fact that she made concerning the "traditional" definition of an immediate annuity. I have no idea why you needed to define the calculation of present value of an immediate annuity. It was not part of the post. If you read Robyn's response you will see your assumption was, not suprisingly, wrong. She was offered a cash settlement in lieu of the annuitized payments remaining. Your effort to understand what Robyn meant (read not listen to her) would have been complaint/lawsuit #1. That nitpicking might have saved you and your client some money. Accuracy is important. You can't just assume you are all knowing.
[quote=ytrewq][quote=HymanRoth] [quote=ytrewq]Robyn,
Your father's "immediate fixed income annuity" would not have ALMOST zilch in cash value. It would BE zilch. It has been zilch since the day he annuitized it. That is one of the main features (not necessarily benefits) of an immediate annuity. Lifetime income (or some various form of it) and no current cash value.[/quote]"Cash Value" used as an insurance term would be zero.
However, the income stream derived from the annuity does have a present value, which is dependent upon mortality assumptions and the discount rate you select. I would assume that is what RobynG means speaking from the standpoint of an educated layperson.
As an advisor, wouldn't you be expected to make an effort to understand what people are actually trying to communicate rather than nitpicking?
[/quote] Yes Hyman, as an advisor, you are mostly right. However, start making trades based on your opinion of what someone "meant" versus what they actually told you verbatim to do and I bet you get yourself a complaint or lawsuit or two. I was not trying to play an advisor to RobynG. I was trying to play someone posting on an internet forum. Robyn was explaining, in detail, how she does far more thorough and accurate analysis and research than most "advisors" on this site. I politely pointed out a mistake of fact that she made concerning the "traditional" definition of an immediate annuity. I have no idea why you needed to define the calculation of present value of an immediate annuity. It was not part of the post. If you read Robyn's response you will see your assumption was, not suprisingly, wrong. She was offered a cash settlement in lieu of the annuitized payments remaining. Your effort to understand what Robyn meant (read not listen to her) would have been complaint/lawsuit #1. That nitpicking might have saved you and your client some money. Accuracy is important. You can't just assume you are all knowing.[/quote]
You are certainly entitle to your opinions, as am I.
By my perception, because you do not especially like Robyn's persona on this board, you chose to nitpick at a technicality, based upon her layperson's understanding of the term 'cash value'. I chose to try to understand what she was trying to communicate to us. Big difference IMO.
You don't understand why I was trying to explain the present value of the annuity stream of payments? My assumption was wrong? How do you think the annuity company came up with that cash-out settlement offer? Did they just guess a number?
If your client was the one receiving that settlement offer, how would you determine if it was reasonable? How would you explain your recommendation to your client?
Thanks for your concern regarding my processing of orders. Trust me junior, I don't act based upon what I "thought someone meant". Orders must be clear and unequivocal and confirmed before I process them.
Thanks for trying.
Hyman,
Your whole response is just like your prior post. BS!
1: I do not dislike Robyn. Nothing in my single post to her would suggest that I dislike her. As a matter of fact I like her a good bit more than I like you. On the whole, her posts are far more knowledgable than a "layperson". I do not have to "try to understand what she was trying to communicate to us". She is perfectly clear and coherent. 2: I am not nitpicking a technicality on cash value. I assumed it was zero as it is an immediate annuity. She pointed out that he was offered a cash value so it was not zero. You, in your infinite wisdom, assumed she was talking about the present value of an income stream. She was not. She was talking about actual cash value. I took her at her words. You assumed she did not know what she was talking about. You were wrong. 3: Had you taken my post as the words were written as opposed to "make an effort to understand what people are actually trying to communicate" and make up your own meanings, we wouldn't be bothered with this ridiculous back and forth. 4: You shouldn't have to ask for or demand trust. I may be your junior but it is pretty unlikely unless you have been an advisor for over 20 years. 5: I wasn't trying so no need to thank me. I was responding to your words not my opinion of your words.Lighten up Francis! Goes for pretty much everyone on here. I'm only pointing you two out because they were the last one at night and the first one this morning. Hyman, from reading your post you went to bed a little peeved at ytrewq. ytrewq you went to bed and woke up grumpy. "Can't we all just get along?" I've found myself more than a little off at times this past year. It's no wonder with the stress that we have all been under, it is immense. Anyone else notice that their patience is a lot less? I'm snapping at my kids for no reason, I have to take a step back and chill!
I have no problem with Robyn being on this board. She's livened things up a bit. You may not want to admit it but she probably knows more than most advisors when it comes to fixed income. But I ask you this Robyn, please no more talking about satisfying your husband! You're 61 and unless I see proof that you are a GILF, that is a visual image I don't want to have in my mind.
Robyn,
Keep posting...Everyone on here is posting about stress and how tough things are...but they're right here posting instead of talking with clients or prospects about what they should be doing right now. I like your posts...articulate, mature and spot on.Busy day today. But I want to clarify 2 things. I was an NASD arbitrator for a short period of time.
And - regarding the annuity - the "cash value" was the amount actually offered by AIG to my Dad. Haven't done the math - but I assume it is the difference between the amount he invested originally - and amount of his principal that has already been returned to him. I realize the company is under no obligation to do this. But he is 91 - and in excellent health. His Dad died at 96 - his Mom at 103. I assume the company was trying to make the best of a bad situation from its POV. RobynThe amount that they offered had nothing to do with how much he originally invested or how much principal was paid to him.
Rather, they are currently paying a 91 year old healthy man $xx/month for the rest of his life. They think that it would be cheaper for the insurance company to give him a lump sum payment of $Y, thus they are willing to do that. There are companies who make their living by giving lowball lumpsums to people in exchange for their annuity benefits. (Think J.G. Wentworth)