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Mar 16, 2005 1:51 pm

"How much do you pay for the tax-deferral of an annuity that is already inside of a tax-deferred IRA? Nothing. "

Uh? You don't really think the insurance wrapper is free, do you?

Mar 16, 2005 2:17 pm

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I said;

"He's answered your question. Simply put, the 6% GMIB is a gimmick. If you're client's rational and you have a clue about managing an income focused portfolio you can do better and the client will pay less."

Bystander then asked;

“Stan, what would be your counter proposal?”

My counter proposal would be to show the client how highly unlikely it is that he’ll need the overpriced “guarantee” of an annuity by using historic examples of rolling ten year periods going back almost 200 years. I’d then show him the expense of the annuity wrapper, then show him a balanced, diversified income oriented bond/stock portfolio. Then, I’d ask him why HE thinks I’d forego that massive annuity ticket I could write for him.

Finally, I’d tell him that if, after everything I’ve said he still wants/needs the “guarantee”, I’d show him the best annuity available given the benefit/cost compromises. I'll either sell him a protfolio or sell him an annuity, but I'll get be taking the business most every time from the guy that didn't give him both sides of the issue.

Mar 18, 2005 3:22 am

When a nuts and bolts individual in a well know insurance company explains to you how the riders work it pretty much closes the door for me.  The riders work because after 5 years in an annuity the percentages are quite high that some other insurance/annuity salesman will convince the client to 1035 out to another product offering another rider.  I understand how the riders work, but I also understand how many annuities are exchanged.  Insurance companies make money and they are good for them, can't always say that for the client.

Well stated STAN.

Mar 30, 2005 5:57 am

It’s difficult to read such non-sense about “this & that”, do what’s right & the best for the client… Sometimes insurance products work & sometimes mutual funds work - everyone is entitled to their opinion. How can anyone on this thing single out individuals?? …like the former Top Producer that “Sage” feels compelled to throw around and put in print.  I know this person, and you have no idea as to the effort this person goes through to do the “right thing” even away from Jones (as well as when he was with EJ), revenue sharing or not.  Obviously you have been provided incorrect pieces of info. (“Hartford Road Show”) & it is ill-advised to be so unwise (stupid) to put it in print.  EJ is a good company… but they slip up every now and then as they ALL do at some point.  

May 26, 2005 3:41 am
The Truth:

I didn’t know I was taking a test Mr. Bystander. The rider speaks for itself. I don’t know how to dumb it down. How do you counter the tax situation on annuities when you take money out?


How do you counter the "tax situation" on YOUR 401k when YOU take the money out. I suppose you don't believe in 401ks either?

May 28, 2005 5:14 pm




May 28, 2005 6:11 pm

[quote=The Truth] I didn’t know I was taking a test Mr. Bystander. The rider speaks for itself. I don’t know how to dumb it down. How do you counter the tax situation on annuities when you take money out?


How do you counter the "tax situation" on YOUR 401k when YOU take the money out. I suppose you don't believe in 401ks either?

BPD [/quote]


Come out, come out, where ever you are.

May 28, 2005 7:51 pm


Enlighten us: 

I answered your questions, ANSWER MINE:

BigPayDay wrote:
Bench Warmer,

BigPayDay, Here are your answers

Jones settled because they thought it was in the best interest of our clients and our advisors. It is very difficult to fignt the U.S. Government in court or for that matter in the press. We did not admit or deny any wrong doing. Are you say JONES DID NO WRONG, YES OR NO ! no "WEASEL" words..?

Doug Hill took the sword for the firm. I know you won't believe this, but it is the truth. HE negotiated the settlement and as he said "There is no one person bigger than the firm." "BS", HE KEPT IS BUTT OUT OF JAIL...FACT!    You are living in FANTASY LAND, CALL THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN MISSOURI, ASK DOUG HILL TO TELL HIM, THAT IN WRITING! CHECK OUT THE WSJ, I KNOW YOUR CLIENTS DON'T READ IT, BUT YOU NEED TO, IT'S BEEN REPORTED SEVERAL TIMES, GO READ IT! 
As far as other firms not doing revenue sharing, take a look at the following:  NOT ALL FIRMS REVENUE SHARE , YES OR NO?  i SAY NO, WHAT YOU SAY?

see page 26.

Yes there are SEVERAL indy firms on the list including Ray Jay and LPL. BUT NOT ALL, ARE THERE ?

As far as Jones being a laughing stock, I doubt it. Maybe to you Jones Failures, but our greatest critic, our clients, in a survey done in Jan and Feb of this year ranked Edward Jones #1 in customer satisfaction. We don't have to answer to the press or envious, jealous Jones failures like you. We serve our clients. Period.

Actually I was very successful at Jones, a Partner, always made top bonus level, recruited, and trained for the FIRM, I got PO'd because the GP's would not fully disclose what was going on , and kept telling us that the "SEC" CHECKING US(JONES) OUT WAS NOTHING! THAT WAS NOT TRUE, WAS IT?


lthough we do not do Wrap Fees in lieu of commission, we do have a Fee Based Advisory program for HNW who are investing $500k or more. Most folks investing under $500k can invest less expensivly than a Fee Based pogram and usually aren't in a high enough tax bracket where writing off the advisory fees helps their taxes. YOU NEED EDUCATION, AND FACTS IN THIS AREA, CHECK IT OUT...THERE IS A REAL WORLD OUT THERE FOR YOU AND YOUR CLIENTS TO DISCOVER, like full discloser, of FEES & CHARGES, and JONES is not close to the lowest!

A few months ago you, Lance Legs, & uwec something or other were saying Jones didn't have enough capital to stay in business. Well guess what? We just had our best trimester in the firm's history. We are in the 40% bonus bracket, almost as high as the heydays of the late '90s. Our limited Partnership, which as averaged 22% since 1990, is at an annualized rate through the first 4 months of over 20%. Over 1/2 of our IRs went on a diversification trip last contest period. Did I mention being the Lexus of the Financial Services industry with our highest Customer Satisfaction rating in JD Powers annual survey? Jones dumped $58million into our profit sharing plan last year. (How much of that goes towards GPs? Zero!) Should I go on?

Get your Facts straight:

1) PLAYER never said such a thing as Jones had a Financial Problem, California could change that?  DO NOT PUT MY NAME WITH THOSE OTHERS

2) JD Power award never asked those clients "How would you feel if Edward Jones got fined for 75 Million Dollars by the SEC, but didn't feel their clients were important enough to tell them about it ? 

What do you think the rating would be then?

3) Your Ir's going on Trips, they pay taxes on, revenue they produced and they live off 38%, so getting back part of the 62% you left on the table is not really too smart is it ?  There is no FREE LUNCH or TRIPS, even at EDWARD JONES?

It isn't as bad as you Jones Bashers (i.e. Jones Failures) wish it was.

I LEFT WHAT IS YOUR EXCUSE?  How can you stand your FIRM , not disclosing to your CLIENTS, what has happen...or can you justify Bill 3 Mil Hill the FRAUD JUMPER? 

You need to get Jones out of your head. Move on. Life's too short. You may want to seek professional help.

BigPayDay, I have moved on but when I read Hippocrates like you touting how GREAT THE FIRM IS, when the FIRM has failed to be HONEST to their CLIENTS....I FEEL ASHAMED,for Ted & Edward Jones, they would be rolling over in their graves, wouldn't you?

I don't understand how you have put up with out demanding FULL DISCLOSURE for YOU & your clients, or DOESN'T THAT MATTER TO YOU?


I feel us x-jonsers care more about the integrity of the Firm's past,  than you hanger on's, at least we could look our clients right in the eye and say we have explained everything they should know about our GREAT FIRM, can you really do that now?

Big Pay Day
The Grass is GREENER where you water it!


Hi Ho Hi Ho it's off to INDY we go........... Back to Top   BigPayDay
Senior Member

Joined: Jan. 10 2005
Posts: 217 Posted: May 27 2005 at 11:18pm | IP Logged Bench Warmer,

So you do what you do for Ted Jones. How special. Sounds like you have a warm heart.

You say you've moved on.

Dude get a grip. Jones has you by the neck and they are shaking you till you can't breath.....and then you wake up and ask your boyfriend to spoon you because you're scared.


Back to Top   Player

Joined: Dec. 08 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 64 Posted: May 28 2005 at 10:57am | IP Logged

BigPayDay (Brainwashed),

At least I can answer questions, let's see what your answers are ?

Are you AFRAID of the TRUTH?

There has never been a JONES SUPPORTER on here yet that has answered QUESTIONS, they only fire back that how they are teaching salemanship at Edward Jones......