[quote=babbling looney]

No, I don't think there is necessarily a guarantee needed in a well managed diversified portfolio.

[/quote]

Come on BL, you can drop the qualifier, the "necessarily". You and I both know the facts are that a diversified long term investor doesn't "need" a guarantee for anything aside from a misplaced fear.

[quote=babbling looney]

However your contention that YOU don't think a guarantee is needed is also a conceit of the highest level. 

[/quote]

No, it's a fact. If you're talking "need" so they can sleep at night even after the best faith efforts of a financial professional to explain why they don't need it, that's another issue and I would agree with you.

The problem I have is that the vast majority of annuity sales are done by salemen who not only don't make a good faith effort, they play up that baseless fear and use annuity propaganda that does the same.

[quote=babbling looney]

  I want a big fat Buick that I know will be costly.  But it will be sooo  cool after I put in a  455 with a tubo automatic....but I digress. 

[/quote]

You don't just digress, you're changing the subject. Wanting a big, fat Buick (I agree, btw, beautiful car) is an emotional desire. Wanting a "guarantee" from an annuity is rarely, rarely a desire, it's a response to an unfounded fear. It's as if you told me you wanted that Buick because you knew if you had it you could sleep well at night knowing the space aliens wouldn't bother you. 

[quote=babbling looney]

I have already said that many annuities have been sold unethically.  Those guys should be strung up by their gonads. 

[/quote]

And I agree, but if we did annuity sales would drop 99%. 

 [quote=babbling looney]You need to put your animus towards annuities and "insurance salesmen", which I also can appreciate, aside and consider the client's needs and fears which you may consider superfluous and silly. But those needs are real. [/quote]

sigh... again, for the last time and I'll let this go, they ARE NOT REAL, they are unfounded and based on illinformed fear AND a annuity sales system that tries to create and/or expand that unfounded fear.

Having said that I HAVE sold annuities to that tiny fraction of people who, after they hear all the facts, don't care about reason and facts.

[quote=babbling looney]

BL - MMORPG player since they were invented. Huge waste of time but a lot of fun.

[/quote]

OK, I have a question for you, what's a "MMORPG" and what online games do you play?

BL, having reconsidered your post during my commute to the office (It's 5 minutes, tops, I'm a lucky guy ) let me add this.

If by "need" you've been talking about the kind of "need" someone who thinks they need sleeping pills because without them the mega-city of tiny people living under their bed will keep them up all night, I will agree with you.

All I'm saying is that if after we show them there is no city there, they still "need" the pills, fine. Sell them the pills. OTOH, most annuity sales are made by people who will quickly nod their heads about that noisy city and hand the customer a propaganda piece that explains the danger of the little city and how you can avoid it.

That's what I hate about most annuity sales and annuity salesmen.

[quote=dude]

Thanks BabblingLooney.  Still a little confused by the acronyms, abbreviations and jargon though. I should know this sh*t since I'm under 30, oh well.

How did mike get "owned".  I haven't seen any posts which make a "titanium" case against mike's postition.  Mostly making assumptions that are inaccurate, but then again I'm biased.

[/quote]

Right here is where Mike got owned:

However, I submit that by that definition NO insurance (health, vision, dental, life, homeowners, disability) is worth it unless you use it. In line with your reasoning, as a financial advisor, DO YOU advise against disability, LTC, and health insurance????

Further...Mike compounds his ignorance by contending that he is right (below).

That’s the very same BS line annuity sales people use all the time. LTC and disability and health insurance ADDRESS A REAL NEED. No one here thinks that ANYONE with a well diversified portfolio on a long term basis NEEDS the “guarantee”.

Finally, Mike whines that his auto sales analogy was "twisted" and used against him but that could not happen if his logic wasn't so faulty.

Bottom line:  Mike has been owned more times than my relatives.

[quote=menotellname]

Right here is where Mike got owned:

However, I submit that by that definition NO insurance (health, vision, dental, life, homeowners, disability) is worth it unless you use it. In line with your reasoning, as a financial advisor, DO YOU advise against disability, LTC, and health insurance????

Further...Mike compounds his ignorance by contending that he is right (below).

That’s the very same BS line annuity sales people use all the time. LTC and disability and health insurance ADDRESS A REAL NEED. No one here thinks that ANYONE with a well diversified portfolio on a long term basis NEEDS the “guarantee”.

[/quote]

ROFLMAO, only an insurance hack could say, with a straight face the standard "You have insurance on your home and health, why not your investments" line. Only that hack could try to equate the REAL NEEDS addressed in the two former with the bogus "need" of the latter.

Rather than your childish "he got owned" you should actually try to defend that line. I'm betting you won't.

[quote=menotellname]

Finally, Mike whines that his auto sales analogy was "twisted" and used against him but that could not happen if his logic wasn't so faulty.

[/quote]

Again, nonsense. My example was the car salesman that tried to sell rust proofing to cars made of galvanized steel that don't rust. BankFC twisted it to "That is like saying a person who has a small child SHOULD NOT buy an SUV for protection in a crash because it is more expensive, costs more in gas, and well frankly, you might not even have a crash anyway. ".

That IS twisted, I never said anything of the sort.

Mike,

Any body that uses ROFLMAO has no room to call somebody "childish".  After all...you have indeed been "owned".

BankFC has pretty much abused you in every gentlemanly way possible.  Hell...neither BankFC nor I initiated the use of the term "owned".  An impartial 3rd party that has witnessed you being verbally raped has realized that you have been "owned" in every politically correct way.

At least you can take solace in the fact that the longer you continue being verbally raped the greater the chance that you will receive a "reach around".

If by "need" you've been talking about the kind of "need" someone who thinks they need sleeping pills because without them the mega-city of tiny people living under their bed will keep them up all night, I will agree with you.

Aha, we finally agree.  The needs and the fears of some clients, while not real to you and me are real to them.  Investing is cerebral for a few clients (mostly engineers and technical types) and must be for us as professional advisors, but for most people investing is a scary insecure emotional experience.  Our job is to calm the fears and get people to invest in spite of themselves.  Sometimes it takes an additional safety net to make people do things.  The Flying Wallendas didn't use a net but they were professionals.  You can expect amateurs not to be afraid of falling and feeling more comfortable with a net below.  That is how I look at the guarantees in some annuities.

You don't just digress, you're changing the subject. Wanting a big, fat Buick (I agree, btw, beautiful car) is an emotional desire

Not a change of subject. I was trying to show that a desire for something I know is going to be expensive and something I don't really need (similar to the annuity guarantees) can go against logic.  Doesn't stop me from wanting anyway.

MMORPG= Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.  Currently I play WOW=World of Warcraft. Did play UO Ultima On Line, Everquest, and for a brief time SWG Star Wars Galaxies. You can only do one of these at a time or it will consume your life.  I know, I know a massive waste of time. But for me a good way to relax and get my mind off of  the pressures of work in the evenings or on a lazy weekend day.   Other things I do to relax are to design web pages or play music on my guitar.    We all need downtime.  Some people play golf, or watch televised sports games. This is my way  

[quote=menotellname]

Mike,

Any body that uses ROFLMAO has no room to call somebody "childish".  After all...you have indeed been "owned".

BankFC has pretty much abused you in every gentlemanly way possible.  Hell...neither BankFC nor I initiated the use of the term "owned".  An impartial 3rd party that has witnessed you being verbally raped has realized that you have been "owned" in every politically correct way.

At least you can take solace in the fact that the longer you continue being verbally raped the greater the chance that you will receive a "reach around".

[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't expect you to defend the line... you never disappoint. 

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=menotellname]

Mike,

Any body that uses ROFLMAO has no room to call somebody "childish".  After all...you have indeed been "owned".

BankFC has pretty much abused you in every gentlemanly way possible.  Hell...neither BankFC nor I initiated the use of the term "owned".  An impartial 3rd party that has witnessed you being verbally raped has realized that you have been "owned" in every politically correct way.

At least you can take solace in the fact that the longer you continue being verbally raped the greater the chance that you will receive a "reach around".

[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't expect you to defend the line... you never disappoint. 

[/quote]

Again...your words were never twisted and you HAVE been OWNED!!!

[quote=babbling looney] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

If by "need" you've been talking about the kind of "need" someone who thinks they need sleeping pills because without them the mega-city of tiny people living under their bed will keep them up all night, I will agree with you.

Aha, we finally agree.  The needs and the fears of some clients, while not real to you and me are real to them. 

[/quote]

Fair enough. OTOH, the average insurance guy and his company shamelessly promote that fear of the mega-city under the bed. IMHO that makes them lower than whale….

I’m convinced, for example, menotell would sell meteorite insurance (“Can you be certain your or your loved ones will NEVER be impacted by a meteorite? Do you KNOW how many meteorites hit the Earth every year? Have you ever seen THE MOON????”) if they could charge a fat enough commission.

[quote=babbling looney]

You don't just digress, you're changing the subject. Wanting a big, fat Buick (I agree, btw, beautiful car) is an emotional desire

Not a change of subject. I was trying to show that a desire for something I know is going to be expensive and something I don't really need (similar to the annuity guarantees) can go against logic.  Doesn't stop me from wanting anyway.

[/quote]

Well, I’d say the difference is profound in the two “needs” unless your need for the Buick is based on irrational fears.  ;)

 [quote=babbling looney]

MMORPG= Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.  Currently I play WOW=World of Warcraft. Did play UO Ultima On Line, Everquest, and for a brief time SWG Star Wars Galaxies. You can only do one of these at a time or it will consume your life.  I know, I know a massive waste of time. But for me a good way to relax and get my mind off of  the pressures of work in the evenings or on a lazy weekend day.   Other things I do to relax are to design web pages or play music on my guitar.    We all need downtime.  Some people play golf, or watch televised sports games. This is my way <?:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /> 

[/quote]

Believe me, I wasn’t attacking. I agree completely and I’ve even played a little BF1942 online. The graphics and interplay with others around the world is amazing. I just didn’t know what the acronym stood for. BTW, where’s the G&T you’ve mentioned in the past fit in  your relaxation? I share that taste, but as with anything else, there can be too much of a good thing. J

Thanks for the good natured exchange.

[quote=menotellname][quote=mikebutler222][quote=menotellname]

Mike,

Any body that uses ROFLMAO has no room to call somebody "childish".  After all...you have indeed been "owned".

BankFC has pretty much abused you in every gentlemanly way possible.  Hell...neither BankFC nor I initiated the use of the term "owned".  An impartial 3rd party that has witnessed you being verbally raped has realized that you have been "owned" in every politically correct way.

At least you can take solace in the fact that the longer you continue being verbally raped the greater the chance that you will receive a "reach around".

[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't expect you to defend the line... you never disappoint. 

[/quote]

Again...your words were never twisted and you HAVE been OWNED!!!

[/quote]

Yeah, that's it. Repeating that "owned" thing is so very, well, you.

Say, is there even any hope for a testicular transplant for you so you could try to defend that "You insure your..." line? You and I BOTH know you use it everyday. 

Mike said:

I’m convinced, for example, menotell would sell meteorite insurance (“Can you be certain your or your loved ones will NEVER be impacted by a meteorite? Do you KNOW how many meteorites hit the Earth every year? Have you ever seen THE MOON????”) if they could charge a fat enough commission.

Reply.

ROFLMAO

MeNoTellName Got

pw3ned

or something like that.

(I probably did it wrong but you get the idea)

[quote=babbling looney]

MMORPG= Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.  Currently I play WOW=World of Warcraft. Did play UO Ultima On Line, Everquest, and for a brief time SWG Star Wars Galaxies. You can only do one of these at a time or it will consume your life.  [/quote]

Holy Crap.  You're a bigger dork than me.

[quote=Mike Damone][quote=babbling looney]

MMORPG= Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.  Currently I play WOW=World of Warcraft. Did play UO Ultima On Line, Everquest, and for a brief time SWG Star Wars Galaxies. You can only do one of these at a time or it will consume your life.  [/quote]

Holy Crap.  You're a bigger dork than me.

[/quote]

 I think you've underestimated your dork quotient

[quote=dude]

MeNoTellName Got

pw3ned

or something like that.

(I probably did it wrong but you get the idea)

[/quote]

It's actually "pwn3d" but I won't be nit picky.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=Mike Damone][quote=babbling looney]

MMORPG= Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.  Currently I play WOW=World of Warcraft. Did play UO Ultima On Line, Everquest, and for a brief time SWG Star Wars Galaxies. You can only do one of these at a time or it will consume your life.  [/quote]

Holy Crap.  You're a bigger dork than me.

[/quote]

 I think you've underestimated your dork quotient

[/quote]

I just got pwn3d by mikebuttler. 

Holy Crap.  You're a bigger dork than me.

 Thanks.  It takes years of practice and dedication.  You should try the Myst series for serious dorkdom. 

Thanks for the leeway Mike D.

[quote=Mike Damone][quote=mikebutler222][quote=Mike Damone][quote=babbling looney]

MMORPG= Massively Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.  Currently I play WOW=World of Warcraft. Did play UO Ultima On Line, Everquest, and for a brief time SWG Star Wars Galaxies. You can only do one of these at a time or it will consume your life.  [/quote]

Holy Crap.  You're a bigger dork than me.

[/quote]

 I think you've underestimated your dork quotient

[/quote]

I just got pwn3d by mikebuttler. 

[/quote]

It takes a big man to laugh at himself. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at the big man laughing at himself.