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Sep 15, 2005 11:14 am

You know, you have got to have something that is unique in this
business today.  Every survey (including the Reg Rep on this
month) says that prospects and clients DO NOT get excited about mutual
funds and asset allocation.  EZ- you sell a MF Wrap program using
mutual funds and asset alloction.  There is nothing wrong with it,
clients know they need what you have, but they at least want to learn
about more.  This “more” is what takes your busienss to a whole
new level. 

Moneyadvisor criticized stock picking and trading.  Keep that up
Moneyman, do you see what prospects ARE interested in?  Individual
strategies, hedge, and commodities. Your ignorance feeds me. 

IF you are running wrap programs with rebalancing, you are not managing
any money…so you should have plenty of time to get out in the
community and share a story that is different.  Create that story
and strategy, get out of your bank branches, and stop waiting for
business to come to you. 

I speak from expeience, I was at a bank doing around $400K/yr in
production doing funds and annuities.  I gave up all bank
referrals, formed an alliance with a segment of the trust department,
and focused on CRT business.  I went from $400K to well over $1
mil in 18 months, and eventually left the bank, formed a team,
and  more than doubled by best bank year.  This all happened
by stepping out of the box, a box that is always changing.

Sep 15, 2005 1:13 pm

Greenhills - Idon't believe obviously "have time" to chime in here.  I don't buy your story.

Rightway - don't believe everything you read.

Sep 15, 2005 1:54 pm


By the way, I had a wonderful ride on Sunday.  


was it good for horsie too?

Sep 15, 2005 10:31 pm


Rightway - don't believe everything you read.


I don't, but I do happen to believe this particular material.  I have seen it formulate over the last few years, and this will continue given a sideways market.  I have reacted to it in a big way, somewhat of a risk I will admit, and it has paid off big.  You see, I get in front of new prospects to talk about many out of the box things, even though many of them end up with a few money managers, a commodities investment, a hedge fund of funds, and a bond ladder.  I get in front of them because I am talking about things most are not.  Thats all my point was, and you missed it.
Sep 16, 2005 2:41 am

Rightway is someone who has it together.  He is hitting the nail RIGHT ON THE HEAD.  Way to go.  Prospects love to hear from people like him and I will bet Rightway that you are raising assets!  As per the recent Registerd Rep magazine, you are talking about things people with MONEY want to hear about.  Then you get these out-of-the-loop people like moneyadvisor who havent a clue! They just critisize and complain.  Get with it M.A. and you to can raise assets.  Learn a skill that addresses the concerns that are out there. 

Hell if I can do it anyone can.  My little nich is managing accounts myself using pretty successful technical analysis.  It really isnt to complicated.  But what do you think happens when I run accross someone with a million dollars who owns mutual funds.  As long as we dont have a tax problem, I pick off those accounts so fast the loosing end has no idea what happened.   Why would they want mutual funds when they could have me running the account.

In the last seven business days, I brought in 1.4 million and it is all from people who want ME at the drivers wheel.  Individual equities, technical analysis, risk avoidance, NO riding market cycles out over here...absolute returns., alternativbe investments when appropriate.

Screw Wall want to trust them with your money?  I don't.  You actually want to use their research?!  What a joke.   This is the kind of stuff that is important to investors with decent money and it works for me.  You need to be off the grid a bit.  Otherwise you are just one of thousands.  Not me. 

Ez, I have about 180 million a.u.m. and I have been in the biz for 17 years as of next February.   

Sep 16, 2005 12:36 pm

Man… how will I ever get there in my early forties with only 18 mill AUM? Is this thing possible in these times???

Sep 16, 2005 1:22 pm

[quote=ezmoney]Man… how will I ever get there in my early forties
with only 18 mill AUM? Is this thing possible in these times???[/quote]

You control more than you think EZ.  I left a bank and took a
batch of assets.  I have grown that 10 fold in half as many
years.  Initially I believed my ignorant former bank management
thinking this could NEVER EVER get done. 

I went to my 4 external referral sources ( 3 attny’s and 1 CPA) I had
developed, and explained I was now looking for particular clients in
excess of $1,000,000 of investable assets.  They did not even miss
a step…all of a sudden these were the accounts I was opening and they
were asking me to “bend” a bit to open a $300k rollover.  It WAS
real, it IS real, and it is there for those who to chose to GO GET

The marketing in this business is made more complicated than it needs
to be.  Prospects do not want to approached by sales people, which
is what our reputation holds because we approach them with the same,
same, same, same, same, same, same, same thing!  Same as the TV,
same as the magazines, same as the brother who just got in the
business, same as the banker, same as the broker down the street, same
as the state farm insurance agent, same as the accountant, same same
same.  How are you going to win?  Luck of the draw and/or a
personality match.  I don’t like those odds, so I spend a few
hours a week researching compelling subjects and strategies, and take
THOSE to the marketplace.  People want to hear what I have to say,
even though is may just be about a something as simple recent ruling on
a private annuity transaction from a Bar Association websight. 

It does not happen overnight, but fold in “being different” into your
business day (and lord knows this is easy in a bank) and you will begin
to see results.  You could also take some of this slow time and go
get your CFP (sorry for the dig).

Sep 16, 2005 1:23 pm

Greenhills/Rightway - "My way is suck,... Hell I crap bigger than you!"

So....that's how you talk to people, I've never tried that.

Greenhills, where can I find your book on investing?

Sep 16, 2005 1:38 pm


Greenhills/Rightway - “My way is best…you suck,… Hell I crap bigger than you!”

So....that's how you talk to people, I've never tried that.

Greenhills, where can I find your book on investing?


Not really, just sharing idea's...kind of the idea of a forum.  Please participate.
Sep 16, 2005 2:35 pm

It looks to me like Greenhill and Rightway have some good things to say here on this thread moneyadvisor.  What's your problem?  Why don't you contribute with some advice of your own?    

Sep 16, 2005 5:39 pm

Rightway - I agree with your post. Especially the "luck of the draw/personality match comment".( if you talk to enough people, you are going to run into some that just like you) To the client we do all look the same and sound the same, and what we do is so intangible that they can't compare accurately. I think you have to be able to have a conversation about sophisticated investment solutions, to appeal to a certain client, and I think trust has more to do with a prospects decision to join me than what I'm pitching. A lot of prospects I am in front of are skeptical, and can't grasp the most basic concepts. Can I use these strategies after their is trust....yes, do I agree they can be of help..yes, I just don't think conversations about commodities are going to win me business. (Not with the majority of my prospects) Let me clear something up....I admit, as hard as it is to believe being a Merrill guy, I DON'T PROSPECT THE HIGH NET.......oops!....there I said it! OK Greenhills, let's hear what a loser I am, and how that kind of thinking will kill me and my family. I would take an annutized book of 500 clients, with an average account balance of $500,000 any day of the week!

Since the HNW are such a small portion of my market, Most of my prospects ar 1/2 milllion or so. I don't avoid the HNW, I'm just not going to spend a ton of time chasing them like everyone else. In the 1/2 million space, more often than not - I am against insurance guys and smaller planners. I have a couple of 2 million dollar + clients, but they are more the Millionaire next door type. And oh yea, I like mutual funds, and since I have accounts that are up 15-20 %, I think I'm doing ok.

I am not going to pick apart comments, and quotes, and try and battle philosophy -  But then again, I don't respond well to people calling me loser.

You know what, I decided for well founded reasons, that I was going to concentrate on a certain size client, and use fee based accounts to invest in. I don't like using individual equities, for me it's to high maintenance. I'm not going to debate with clients everytime I need to buy or sell, or listen to them bitch about the 3 out of 10 stocks that lose money. 

I may go against the grain at times (i'm not proud of that),and I probably don't have as much experience as you, but I don't think after what the investing public has been through over the last 5 years, they are now looking for a higher risk more sophisticated strategy. Not as much as the Rep article would suggest.  

Rightway -With everything that our firm has put into the "Wealth mangement" process, and servicing clients, and the platform they have spent so much time and money on,........and still Rep. tells us we are missing the boat. I don't think you will ever pick up an article that reads :Yup,...they got it! Investment firms are completely in line with client needs" It will never happen. Clients are rarely happy.

That being said, we all do what works for us. I'm new (3 yrs. in the biz). and yeah.....I find it very hard to get clients.....Greenhills, if I can't bitch here.....where can I bitch. My partner is a 1.5 Gross guy with 200M AuM, and he bitches. I don't think I'm out of line. My prospecting has paid off well lately, so I'm not a complete failure.   

Sep 20, 2005 12:49 am


Does your partner realize how much time you waste on here during the day? 

Let me answer that.  No. 

Sep 20, 2005 1:04 am

If you really did have a partner with those a.u.m. that is. 

Sep 20, 2005 3:31 pm


you're vision of 500 accounts w/$500k each annuitized sounds great......but haven't you heard your branch manager tell you that he only thinks each FA can properly service 150-200 accounts max?  if you haven't heard that, i'm sure he has spoken w/your partner about trimming down his book........point is, it is a nice thought and all but i wonder if management would ever let you really get there

just a thought?

Sep 20, 2005 6:24 pm



you're vision of 500 accounts w/$500k each annuitized sounds great......but haven't you heard your branch manager tell you that he only thinks each FA can properly service 150-200 accounts max?  if you haven't heard that, i'm sure he has spoken w/your partner about trimming down his book........point is, it is a nice thought and all but i wonder if management would ever let you really get there

just a thought?

That is an idealistic scenario, ripped right from the pages of non producing managers and motivational speakers in our industry. I do not know of an advisor that has that. Maybe veteran guys who are in larger markets, or those that have very few monster relations. That does not apply to the majority of brokers. Stop and think for yourself for 120 you really think my manager is going to come to me and say....."Hey buddy quit opening those $500,000 accounts" I don't think so.

Sep 20, 2005 9:07 pm

unfortunately, that's just a conversation you'll have to have with him

Sep 21, 2005 12:34 pm


I'm not making this stuff up.....I do actually talk to other advisors in my firm and other firms, and know what most guys books look like. What you are talking about is having the "IDEAL" book = 100 relationships averaging 1 million or more. That is not a level that many advisors ever reach, or even care to focus on (not even CLOSE!). Occassionaly, you may find a guy who is of retirement age, who wants to keep his practice, but wants to scale down, or the 1 in a thousand super broker, who is focusing on a niche - and has reached a level that it makes sense for him to limit the number of relationships. Any advisor who is in a building mode (and we ALL are, I have advisors in my firm that make amillion bucks a year, who would screw you out of a $250,000 account), takes every quality piece of business that comes in the door!!!!! I don't care if a guy has 2000 accounts, he is not going to turn away new business,......and he may pare down his book, but only to get rid of the low or zero PC generating accounts.

Let's say you did have 500 clients with average account balances of $500,000. First if you can grab 60 bp on the whole thing, you are doing 1.5 million gross. In my case it would be mostly fee based - fairly low maintenance. As far as being able to service them - 500 clients over 48 weeks in a year. That's 10 meetings per week - what is so hard about that???

And believe me!! Management has more interest in me opening as many accounts as humanly possible, than concentrating on servicing a "manageable" number of clients.

Sep 21, 2005 3:46 pm


i understand all of this, i've been at merrill, i know what reps books look like...clearly we are talking about an ideal situation

Sep 21, 2005 4:41 pm

oh,…ok,…talk to you later.