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Nov 10, 2006 4:11 pm

[quote=Indyone]

As far as dealing with difficult agents, a CPA I once worked with actually smeared something (I think he told me that it was a teargas derivative) on the walls of his conference room when an agent was due in for an audit.  I think the agent was in the room for 30 minutes tops and decided that the books looked good enough to take a pass...

[/quote]

Damn! Why didn't I think of that?

Actually, sometime over the past ten years or so, maybe less, the IRS has adopted a kindler gentler attitude. Their employees will try to help. Unfortunately i believe that is about to change. I read recently, somplace that the new attitude hasn't helped compliance or collections. I don't recall the details.

I still regard IRS agents as dangerous people lacking personal decency and integrity. Hash yes, but not without good reason.

Nov 10, 2006 7:34 pm

[quote=babbling looney]

I don't know where you got the impression I was in any way endorsing China...just making a point that could be attributed to any emerging economy, not just China.

Dude, I didn't get that impression about you at all.  I just thought it was interesting that the issues (pollution, rich upper class and very very poor lower class, ecological disasters) my client saw in China are never ever brought up while in the USA we are beaten about the brow and told how bad we are.

When the Chinese get their gigantic hydro power plant going that will probably relieve the dependence on coal.  However, can you just imagine the caterwauling if we proposed to dam up the Grand Canyon to generate power for Las Vegas?

As to the IRS, I've been audited. It wasn't fun, but it wasn't hell either.  The IRS agent was actually very nice, but then so was I.... very cooperative and properly deferential and acted awed to be in the presence of the little bureaucrat.   You know, the fly/honey thing.  Maybe being a woman, who can't/won't wear polo shirts, had something to do with it  

Trying to tilt against windmills is not, IMNSHO, a very productive use of time. 

[/quote]

Agreed.  There is not enough talk about the EXTREME lack of responsibility China exhibits towards environmental issues.  I think this is going to be a major issue in the years to come.  We have been seeing an increase in air particulate levels for many years on the West Coast due to China's activities.

Nov 10, 2006 7:48 pm

[quote=BondGuy]What's the group's take on Real ID and RFID technology?[/quote]

Look, I'm not an evangelical type Christian by any means, but some of the similarities between the Book of Revelation's talk concerning the 'number of the beast' and the development and direction of RFID technology is quite alarming. 

I've been following the development of this technology for sometime and on the surface, getting a 'veri chip' implant makes sense...decreased identity theft, convienience, simplified identification etc, etc...

It's just that I'm not willing to trade my indepedence and anonymity for those 'convieniences'. 

If any of the movie's contentions are true, then I predict some major 'catastrophe' or event that will be just enough to persuade the coutry towards adopting this technology.  This sounds extreme, but I'd probably fight to the death if it ever came to that to avoid being implanted.  I don't trust our government in the least, my liberties are my only true asset.

I believe most people are so seduced by their 'way of life' and material possessions that they would willingly submit to a chip if the circumstances were scary enough, you know, like, they'd lose their house, wealth etc... 

First it will start with the national ID card and then over time as people get used to it, implant chips will be the next logical step.  I expect a lot of fear mongering in the days to come.

Nov 10, 2006 8:47 pm

[quote=dude]First it will start with the national ID card.... [/quote]

The only "national ID card" we'll be getting, imho, will be some form of a state driver's license (or ID for non-drivers, which many, if not all states already offer) that has some national uniformity to lessen the chance of forgery.

Nov 10, 2006 9:31 pm

Aw, man…I just renewed my license…

Nov 10, 2006 9:59 pm

disturbing but true…

Nov 10, 2006 10:03 pm

[quote=joedabrkr]disturbing but true... [/quote]

Sorry joe, what aspect of the discussion are you referring to as disturbing?

Nov 10, 2006 10:46 pm

[quote=BondGuy]Actually, sometime over the past ten years or so, maybe less, the IRS has adopted a kindler gentler attitude. [/quote]

There was a change of the law during the Clinton administration that ended the IRS's presumption of guilt approach. You'll never guess who was on what side of the fight 

Nov 10, 2006 11:03 pm

This sounds extreme, but I'd probably fight to the death if it ever came to that to avoid being implanted.  I don't trust our government in the least, my liberties are my only true asset.

Amen to that.  I don't have a problem with some sort of standardized national identification card along the lines of a driver's license that could be use to prevent voter fraud and make our lives as financial professionals easier when we are attempting to prove identity of prospects and prevent money laundering.    It would also be nice for people who move around to not have to get a new ID card every time they move to a different State.

If any of the movie's contentions are true, then I predict some major 'catastrophe' or event

Way ahead of you there.  We have a 15 x 20 block building that houses our agricutural pump. My husband calls it the Armageddon pantry.  I expect we have enough food and other supplies (ammo and scotch ) to last for at least 8 months or more.       

Plus it's convenient, if we run out of coffee I don't have to have to go to the store in the snow but instead grab a bag of beans from the pump house.  After Katrina, I figured the next disaster will leave us high and dry because of our rural location and we will be on our own for some time. 

Nov 11, 2006 12:30 am

If memory servres, the “kinder, gentler IRS” was during the G.H.W. Presidency.

Nov 11, 2006 4:26 am

[quote=Starka]If memory servres, the "kinder, gentler IRS" was during the G.H.W. Presidency.[/quote]

It was the Clinton admin, the GOP Senate. Democrats rejected it (said it was a concern only of the rich, and then abused folks of all income levels came out of the woodwork), and then Clinton triangulated, and signed it.

http://grassley.senate.gov/releases/1997/pr12-18.htm

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/07/22/irs.signing/

Nov 11, 2006 2:01 pm

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=Starka]If memory servres, the "kinder, gentler IRS" was during the G.H.W. Presidency.[/quote]

It was the Clinton admin, the GOP Senate. Democrats rejected it (said it was a concern only of the rich, and then abused folks of all income levels came out of the woodwork), and then Clinton triangulated, and signed it.

http://grassley.senate.gov/releases/1997/pr12-18.htm

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/07/22/irs.signing/

[/quote]

This was definately 90s. So it was Clinton. Sorry Stark.

Nov 11, 2006 2:18 pm

[quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=dude]First it will start with the national ID card.... [/quote]

The only "national ID card" we'll be getting, imho, will be some form of a state driver's license (or ID for non-drivers, which many, if not all states already offer) that has some national uniformity to lessen the chance of forgery.

[/quote]

My NJ drivers license has gone from one any half witted terrorist could get, to the hardest to obtain in the nation. it includes an information strip sans RFID. So the leap to a national ID, from a privacy point of view is'nt too big a deal.

My problem with national ID is potential for misuse combined with the pervasive nature of government and big business. That Homeland Security is running the show doesn't give me a level of comfort. Nor does the fact that Homeland Security can ask for whatever it wants on the card including RFID, which would be huge problem. Then there's the mission creep asspect of this thing. Back in the 30s when Social Security was before congress much of the debate centered on the number being used for indentifcation purposes beyond collectingSS benefits. It passed into law on the promise that that would never happen. Look at where we are today. Real ID is being presented/marketed to us as just a standardized driver's license. yet the slippery slope issues of catologueing, tracking ,and spying are very real. An injectable tag isn't as Orwellian as many would have us believe.

The good news is when we get to that point cold calling won't be necessary. Pull up a data base and a prospect's complete record, all holdings, due dates, etc will show. As will info on  how to approach them. What their hot button issues are. Yeah, for us or our children it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

I hope I never see the day.

Nov 13, 2006 6:20 pm

[quote=BondGuy][quote=mikebutler222]

[quote=dude]First it will start with the national ID card.... [/quote]

The only "national ID card" we'll be getting, imho, will be some form of a state driver's license (or ID for non-drivers, which many, if not all states already offer) that has some national uniformity to lessen the chance of forgery.

[/quote]

My NJ drivers license has gone from one any half witted terrorist could get, to the hardest to obtain in the nation. it includes an information strip sans RFID. So the leap to a national ID, from a privacy point of view is'nt too big a deal.

My problem with national ID is potential for misuse combined with the pervasive nature of government and big business. That Homeland Security is running the show doesn't give me a level of comfort. Nor does the fact that Homeland Security can ask for whatever it wants on the card including RFID, which would be huge problem. Then there's the mission creep asspect of this thing. Back in the 30s when Social Security was before congress much of the debate centered on the number being used for indentifcation purposes beyond collectingSS benefits. It passed into law on the promise that that would never happen. Look at where we are today. Real ID is being presented/marketed to us as just a standardized driver's license. yet the slippery slope issues of catologueing, tracking ,and spying are very real. An injectable tag isn't as Orwellian as many would have us believe.

The good news is when we get to that point cold calling won't be necessary. Pull up a data base and a prospect's complete record, all holdings, due dates, etc will show. As will info on  how to approach them. What their hot button issues are. Yeah, for us or our children it will be like shooting fish in a barrel.

I hope I never see the day.

[/quote]

Amen to that BondGuy. 

Nov 13, 2006 9:06 pm

I read something over the weekend that the new ID card will be a defacto internal passport. I think that was on the ACLU site.

As it stands we won't be able to get into federal buildings without the ID. I wonder if that extends to National Parks? If so, the Lincoln Memorial among others, will be off limits without the ID. I find that ironic.

A tiny step along the expansion curve, extending needing ID to state and municpal buildings, will stiffle protest and free speech. As it stands I can attend a municipal meeting as an anonymous person  to get the facts on some issue, watch debate, or check up on my town officials. With Real ID that could change if it is extended to include municipal or state buildings. People who do not wish to be identified with an issue, or out of fear, will stop attending meetings. That fear, whether justified or not, will stiffle free speech.

Needing ID to get into my local library doesn't thrill me either. Add RFID to the card and not only can you be tracked to the library, but also within the library. A comforting thought.

Still, the prospect of being pulled out of line anytime anyplace and being asked "Papers please?" is truly scary. The Supreme Court has already ruled that the police, without cause, can ask you to ID yourself.

Police  "Sir could we see your ID card please?"

Me  "Sure  [digging card out of wallet and handing it to cop] here it is"

Police  "Why are you here?"

me   "I wanted to visit the memorial to view Thomas Jefferson's words in opposition to tyranny."

Police  "Oh, a trouble maker huh, come with us"

Wait until the discrimination starts. Latinos and other foreign looking people will be asked to ID themselves constantly to prove they are U.S. citizens. This is going to be a mess.

Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

[quote=BondGuy]

I read something over the weekend that the new ID card will be a defacto internal passport. I think that was on the ACLU site.

As it stands we won't be able to get into federal buildings without the ID. I wonder if that extends to National Parks? If so, the Lincoln Memorial among others, will be off limits without the ID. I find that ironic.

A tiny step along the expansion curve, extending needing ID to state and municpal buildings, will stiffle protest and free speech. As it stands I can attend a municipal meeting as an anonymous person  to get the facts on some issue, watch debate, or check up on my town officials. With Real ID that could change if it is extended to include municipal or state buildings. People who do not wish to be identified with an issue, or out of fear, will stop attending meetings. That fear, whether justified or not, will stiffle free speech.

Needing ID to get into my local library doesn't thrill me either. Add RFID to the card and not only can you be tracked to the library, but also within the library. A comforting thought.

Still, the prospect of being pulled out of line anytime anyplace and being asked "Papers please?" is truly scary. The Supreme Court has already ruled that the police, without cause, can ask you to ID yourself.

Police  "Sir could we see your ID card please?"

Me  "Sure  [digging card out of wallet and handing it to cop] here it is"

Police  "Why are you here?"

me   "I wanted to visit the memorial to view Thomas Jefferson's words in opposition to tyranny."

Police  "Oh, a trouble maker huh, come with us"

Wait until the discrimination starts. Latinos and other foreign looking people will be asked to ID themselves constantly to prove they are U.S. citizens. This is going to be a mess.

[/quote]

Talking about this gets my blood boiling!  I know it's still a little early since there are so many potential outcomes.  I love this country dearly, but RFID National ID cards could possibly be enough for me to pack up and move the hell out!  Implants on the other hand would be a clear exit sign for me, if not reason to take up arms (I'm a BIG believer in second amendment rights!!!).

I'm still deciding whether I would be OK with a basic 'national driver's license' type ID akin to a passport.  I'm a huge believer in localized government and the States' ability to regulate themselves.  Federal Government (and the military in my opinion) should be a fraction of the size it is today....

Anybody else have any thoughts on this?

Nov 13, 2006 11:23 pm

[QUOTE]


I'm still deciding whether I would be OK with a basic 'national driver's
license' type ID akin to a passport. I'm a huge believer in localized
government and the States' ability to regulate themselves. Federal
Government (and the military in my opinion) should be a fraction of the
size it is today....


Anybody else have any thoughts on this?


[/quote]


The more you read about Real ID, just as it stands, the less comfortable
you will become.

Nov 14, 2006 11:36 pm

Wow, this is like Bush actions for war are illegal. We all know the court has power to make the law. So these people are guilty and it sucks to be them.



Love to hear people compare some case in 1900 to current tax law. This reminds me of a Michael Moore film. They video tape someone and then analyze it for months and pick apart every word. These people hate the fact that they even spoke to this guy.



Entertaining