Car Sales-NOV
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Dec 2, 2008 5:47 pm
You gotta love the media. The hate the big three.
Headlines today: Toyota U.S. sales for Nov fall 34% Ford car sales for Nov plunge more than 30% Toyota-Fall Ford- Plunge Ford's relative numbers are stronger than Toyota's yet Toyota didn't plunge?That’s cuz Ford sucks. You can only go so low. And before you start talking about how many cars Ford sells in relation to Toyota, let’s remember how long Toyota has been growing, and how long Ford has been shrinking. And Ford is a domestic car maker, they SHOULD have higher sales than Toyota.
Someday when they and the other "Little 2" get their collective shlt together, they might actually sell more than just fleet cars and to 70 year old consumers that "won't buy from the damn (insert your derogatory name for far-east asian people). I wuz AT Pearl Harbor goddammit!"My son needed another car and we went to our local Ford dealer last Saturday (at 3pm) and we were the ONLY customers to look at their used cars all day. When we were there, no other customers were anywhere to be seen on the premises. It was kind of eery. Just employees milling about and staring outside with somber looks & muffled yawns.
Bloomberg calls it like it is....
Toyota's U.S. Sales Plunge Most in 28 Years as Recession Trumps Incentives
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aAKpiDsZIPY4&refer=home
Kendall:
So did you buy anything? If so, what kind of low ball offer did you make? I can't believe you'd let your kid drive a piece of crap :)My son needed another car and we went to our local Ford dealer last Saturday (at 3pm) and we were the ONLY customers to look at their used cars all day. When we were there, no other customers were anywhere to be seen on the premises. It was kind of eery. Just employees milling about and staring outside with somber looks & muffled yawns.
2007 Fusion V-6 with 18K miles and decent options for approx $13K.
Actually Ford has pretty good JD Power ratings.
(Our Honda Odyssey dropped it's tranny at 42K miles).
Talking about pieces of crap:
My 2007 Camry- two trips to the shop to fix a faulty transmission. Only fixed because of a service mgr went against Toyota policy. Yes, you read that right. Two trips to the shop to fix a dead center stack One trip and another pending to fix dash rattles and buzzing My neighbor's 2007 Accord Ex V6: Forced buy back through NJ lemon law due to faulty transmission. 18 months to resolve. My sales assistant's Accord EX: Currently in NJ lemon law arbitration against Honda for faulty transmission. She'll prevail, but Honda doesn't make the process easy. They're treating her like crap. She's now refusing to take an offered 09 Honda Accord. She's done with Honda and doesn't want another Honda. Disappointed with her car, but disgusted by the way she's been treated. I should mention that this isn't her first Accord. Her 2002 accord developed a transmission problem at 35,000 miles. Several trips to the shop over the course of 5000 miles failed to resolve the bump/shift problem. Convinced that it was a problem unique to her car she traded the car for a then new 2007. Now this! A friend's 2003 BMW 745: Bought back by BMW My BMW K1200LTC: Bought back by BMW and replaced with a new K1200LTC Not to mention how BMW tried to stick it to every buyer of it's seven series and 540I car's in the 90's with it's oil leaking POS M60 Nikasil engine. For years BMW denied there was a problem even as cars leaked oil on the service department's shop floor. And then the debacle of the current seven series car. 1000's bought back. Ok, I've had my problems with american cars as well. One lemon out of the last twelve american cars i've purchased. But as this very short list taken from personal experience shows, the foreign brands are not immune. So let's lighten up on the "all american cars are crap diatribe." It's far from fact. As is the notion that foriegn is better. Just get into a disagreement with one of these foriegn companies and see what happens. After you do you'll be a flag waving buy american advocate.[quote=iceco1d]
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again; statistically, and from a Total Quality Management perspective, foreign cars, specifically those built in Japan, and more specifically those built by Toyota (first) and Honda (second), are the best built and highest quality cars in the world. That’s not to say they are immune, and it doesn’t say that you can’t have a string of bad experiences with them. It’s also not to say that all American cars are bad.
But in all reality BondGuy, the problem is clearly that you are from New Jersey, and you don't know how to drive! Same goes for your friend! Traffic circles! WTF?![/quote]They've had traffic circles in Europe for ages and look at them now. Oh wait, I take that back.
[quote=gregoron] [quote=iceco1d]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; statistically, and from a Total Quality Management perspective, foreign cars, specifically those built in Japan, and more specifically those built by Toyota (first) and Honda (second), are the best built and highest quality cars in the world. That's not to say they are immune, and it doesn't say that you can't have a string of bad experiences with them. It's also not to say that all American cars are bad.
But in all reality BondGuy, the problem is clearly that you are from New Jersey, and you don't know how to drive! Same goes for your friend! Traffic circles! WTF?![/quote]They've had traffic circles in Europe for ages and look at them now. Oh wait, I take that back.
[/quote] Look, kids...Big Ben...Parliament.
[quote=iceco1d]
I've said it before, and I'll say it again; statistically, and from a Total Quality Management perspective, foreign cars, specifically those built in Japan, and more specifically those built by Toyota (first) and Honda (second), are the best built and highest quality cars in the world. That's not to say they are immune, and it doesn't say that you can't have a string of bad experiences with them. It's also not to say that all American cars are bad.
But in all reality BondGuy, the problem is clearly that you are from New Jersey, and you don't know how to drive! Same goes for your friend! Traffic circles! WTF?![/quote] Traffic Circles? Do you mean those sections of roadway where we can legally play rock'em sock'em dodge cars? Not even close to the most dangerous driving you can do in Jersey. That honor is reserved for those brave souls who dare to drive the speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike! So what is that under that Peterbuilt? I think it's a Lexus with Georgia plates. Think I'm kidding? Every freaking day on that road! It doesn't get any press, but some spectacular wrecks and unfortunately most of them with a body count. Last Saturday a 40 mile back up when some poor guy from Tennessee lost it and ended up in the opposing lanes. The 85 mph North bound traffic ended his Thanksgiving weekend trip early, gave the three non dead at scene vics a free helicopter ride to the trauma center, and closed the highway for most of the day. Similar scenes, cause by fast moving no margin for error traffic is repeated almost daily. Usually, as it was Saturday the vics are out of staters. This, even though most of the non truck traffic on the highway is from Jersey. As for knowing how to drive- What we lack in knowledge we make for with pure aggression. Jersey- the most aggressive drivers in the country-by far! Mass and FL not far behind.No prob Ice, i took it the way you intended.
Actually, on two wheels I'm twistie challanged. I live on on a coastal plain. The roads are flat and straight. So, i'm a coastal plains rider. This was evedent not so long ago while riding Gertruda the Bugslayer, my recently traded BMW K1200LTC, along the switchbacks of U.S. 50 in West Virginia. Blasting up the side of one mountain i came to a curve sign with a suggested speed limit of 15 mph. Gee, that was only 55 mph less than i was traveling. I cranked in some lean. Then i cranked in some more lean. Then the pegs started dragging. First I crossed from the right side fog line to the center line. Then I crossed the double yellow center line. I crossed the oncoming lane just in front of an oncoming bulk carrier. Then i crossed the left side fog line. Three or four on coming cars passed me on the left. Truthfully I lost count because the the guard rail was approaching rapidly. That guard rail might keep the bike on the mountain but it was clear that it wouldn't do much more than break my leg before I did a full gainer with half twist off the side off the mountain. As I had crossed the fog line I straighened the bike and squeezed the brakes as hard as I could. I then cranked the lean in again within inches of the rail, but along it not towards it with momentum still pushing me out to the left. The bike stopped with no room to put my left foot down. I was breathing heavy, my heart was racing, but amazingly i hadn't pissed my pants. Sheepishly I down shifted to first and put the bike in motion. You would think i would have learned my lesson, but two hours later I got a speeding ticket, 70 in a 25. I incorrectly identified the oncoming LEO's Intrepid with low profile light bar as a Camero with a ski rack. I just pulled over and waited for him to drive up. I remember telling the cop I thought the speed limit had gone back up after traveling through a small town. He pointed out that there wasn't anyplace in the state were the speed limit was 70. Ah, good point! I pleaded it down to a parking ticket by paying double the $100 fine. And another lesson learned. Not every town in WVA is unincoporated. Since then i make it a point to spend time in the mountains riding. Practice makes perfect. I've gotten a couple more "Parking" tickets. But hey, that's the point right?[quote=BondGuy]No prob Ice, i took it the way you intended.
Actually, on two wheels I'm twistie challanged. I live on on a coastal plain. The roads are flat and straight. So, i'm a coastal plains rider. This was evedent not so long ago while riding Gertruda the Bugslayer, my recently traded BMW K1200LTC, along the switchbacks of U.S. 50 in West Virginia. Blasting up the side of one mountain i came to a curve sign with a suggested speed limit of 15 mph. Gee, that was only 55 mph less than i was traveling. I cranked in some lean. Then i cranked in some more lean. Then the pegs started dragging. First I crossed from the right side fog line to the center line. Then I crossed the double yellow center line. I crossed the oncoming lane just in front of an oncoming bulk carrier. Then i crossed the left side fog line. Three or four on coming cars passed me on the left. Truthfully I lost count because the the guard rail was approaching rapidly. That guard rail might keep the bike on the mountain but it was clear that it wouldn't do much more than break my leg before I did a full gainer with half twist off the side off the mountain. As I had crossed the fog line I straighened the bike and squeezed the brakes as hard as I could. I then cranked the lean in again within inches of the rail, but along it not towards it with momentum still pushing me out to the left. The bike stopped with no room to put my left foot down. I was breathing heavy, my heart was racing, but amazingly i hadn't pissed my pants. Sheepishly I down shifted to first and put the bike in motion. You would think i would have learned my lesson, but two hours later I got a speeding ticket, 70 in a 25. I incorrectly identified the oncoming LEO's Intrepid with low profile light bar as a Camero with a ski rack. I just pulled over and waited for him to drive up. I remember telling the cop I thought the speed limit had gone back up after traveling through a small town. He pointed out that there wasn't anyplace in the state were the speed limit was 70. Ah, good point! I pleaded it down to a parking ticket by paying double the $100 fine. And another lesson learned. Not every town in WVA is unincoporated. Since then i make it a point to spend time in the mountains riding. Practice makes perfect. I've gotten a couple more "Parking" tickets. But hey, that's the point right?[/quote] And you told me your knee dragging days were over. I'm shocked, shocked at you, BondGuy. See you at Jamie James Yamaha Track School at Barber this spring!!!Having lived in both NJ and MA, I concur, both states are crazy. NJ drive freakin fast, MA drivers are just nuts (they remind me of the NYC cabbies when I lived there).
Worst part about NJ is the goddam tollbooths. In some stretches it seems like you just get up to your cruizin speed (about 85 or so) and you have to slam your brakes on for another toll.So…Is GM a company that makes cars and provides health care, or is GM a health care company that happens to make cars?
I’m afraid that the answer is the latter. That is why any money given to them will be flushed away.
bho44:
Flushed away? So we shouldn't ante up? You gotta be effin kidding. The auto hearings are a joke. Paulson gives all his ex wall street friends whatever they need but gives the cold shoulder the auto industry. 10 days ago Citigroup got bailed out to the tune of 306 billion dollars. Taxpayers are on the hook for no less than 100 billion dollars. Citi, on the ropes and about to slip under the waves, didn't have to send it's execs on a road trip to DC and beg for money. And make no mistake, Citi's situation was caused by poor management, mis management, and fraud. Yet they'll get at least 3 times what all the auto makers combined are asking for and that could grow to ten times. Hey, no problem the spigot is open for bankers who screw up. But car makers? Go eff yourselves, and enjoy that ride back to Motown. The sad thing is if Citi went under, beyond those who work there, who cares? No real effect on the economy, and not an AIG type situation. The government will cover what it's got to cover, the assets get picked up by another bank and the world turns the page. However, if one of the big three bites it, Cataclysmic was how Moody's chief economist describes the effect on our economy. He's Switzerland in these hearings. He's neutral. He went on to say that the auto makers have come up with a viable plan and that congress has got to give them a chance. Yet we have Senator Honda, as Cramer called him pounding the table against a bailout. And Senator Honda (Shelby R-AL) makes for a good example of the problem here. He comes off as a reasonable conservative guy who is just protecting the tax payers. Yet, he is far from that. he has an ajenda. Honda produces it's V6 accord at an Alabama plant. Hyundai also builds cars in Alabama, as does Mercedes. Additionally, Honda buys from over 90 parts suppliers located in Alabama. Shelby is looking to sink the competition and is willing to play russian roulette with our economy to do it. The same goes for almost entire congessional delegation across the southern auto belt. These boys are playing for the home team and could care less what it does to everyone else. That the Japanese auto makers back the bailout for fear of what not actting might do to their businesses is lost on Senator Honda and Congressman Camry. Add in the anti union element who are wetting themselves right now waiting to drive the stake, and the auto guys are just wasting their time. Money flushed away? You're really worried about that? These asshole lawmakers will flush away 34 billion without hearings, and out of sight of the media by adding pork and Christmas tree items to the first Bill they see next year. And they'll do it with the stroke of a pen at midnight. What a joke and what a shame.So…Is GM a company that makes cars and provides health care, or is GM a health care company that happens to make cars?
I’m afraid that the answer is the latter. That is why any money given to them will be flushed away.
BondGuy:
"I say let them crash." [Quote from counterpoint in "Airplane"]
Flushed away? So we shouldn't ante up? You gotta be effin kidding. The auto hearings are a joke. Paulson gives all his ex wall street friends whatever they need but gives the cold shoulder the auto industry. 10 days ago Citigroup got bailed out to the tune of 306 billion dollars. Taxpayers are on the hook for no less than 100 billion dollars. Citi, on the ropes and about to slip under the waves, didn't have to send it's execs on a road trip to DC and beg for money. And make no mistake, Citi's situation was caused by poor management, mis management, and fraud. Yet they'll get at least 3 times what all the auto makers combined are asking for and that could grow to ten times. Hey, no problem the spigot is open for bankers who screw up. But car makers? Go eff yourselves, and enjoy that ride back to Motown. The sad thing is if Citi went under, beyond those who work there, who cares? No real effect on the economy, and not an AIG type situation. The government will cover what it's got to cover, the assets get picked up by another bank and the world turns the page. However, if one of the big three bites it, Cataclysmic was how Moody's chief economist describes the effect on our economy. He's Switzerland in these hearings. He's neutral. He went on to say that the auto makers have come up with a viable plan and that congress has got to give them a chance. Yet we have Senator Honda, as Cramer called him pounding the table against a bailout. And Senator Honda (Shelby R-AL) makes for a good example of the problem here. He comes off as a reasonable conservative guy who is just protecting the tax payers. Yet, he is far from that. he has an ajenda. Honda produces it's V6 accord at an Alabama plant. Hyundai also builds cars in Alabama, as does Mercedes. Additionally, Honda buys from over 90 parts suppliers located in Alabama. Shelby is looking to sink the competition and is willing to play russian roulette with our economy to do it. The same goes for almost entire congessional delegation across the southern auto belt. These boys are playing for the home team and could care less what it does to everyone else. That the Japanese auto makers back the bailout for fear of what not actting might do to their businesses is lost on Senator Honda and Congressman Camry. Add in the anti union element who are wetting themselves right now waiting to drive the stake, and the auto guys are just wasting their time. Money flushed away? You're really worried about that? These asshole lawmakers will flush away 34 billion without hearings, and out of sight of the media by adding pork and Christmas tree items to the first Bill they see next year. And they'll do it with the stroke of a pen at midnight. What a joke and what a shame. [/quote][quote=bho44]So…Is GM a company that makes cars and provides health care, or is GM a health care company that happens to make cars?
I’m afraid that the answer is the latter. That is why any money given to them will be flushed away.
"I say let them crash." [Quote from counterpoint in "Airplane"]
"Looks like a picked a bad day to stop drinking."
Boy, you had to start the Airplane quote party! I could go on for hours with those quotes.
concentrate… concentrate… I’ve got to concentrate… concentrate…
concentrate… Hello?.. hello… hello… Echo… echo… echo…
Pinch hitting for Pedro Borbon… Manny Mota… Mota… Mota…