Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama’s first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas. 

Facts are pesky things.

[quote=fubs]Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama’s first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas. 

Facts are pesky things.

[/quote]

Yep.  And the facts about Bush have been distorted over and over.  Take the Iraq war for instance. 

The fact that the market was up 35% the first year does not mean it was anything President Obama did.

I don’t think he’s the worst President ever, but he hasn’t done anything in twelve months.

Agreed(though the other guy hadn’t done anything in 2 years)

[quote=fubs]Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama’s first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas. 

Facts are pesky things.
[/quote]

Yep.  And the facts about Bush have been distorted over and over.  Take the Iraq war for instance. 

The fact that the market was up 35% the first year does not mean it was anything President Obama did.

I don’t think he’s the worst President ever, but he hasn’t done anything in twelve months.

[quote=Squash1]Agreed(though the other guy hadn’t done anything in 2 years) [/quote]

I’m not sure I understand Squash.  Bush?  Invading Afghanistan doesn’t count?

Originally posted by fubs

Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama's first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas. 

Facts are pesky things.<?: prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Right about now, I miss George Bush. d*** Cheney too. Straight forward, no BS, not afraid to defend this country and not going to apologize for it either. They understood the seriousness of the threat against us and they were resolute in fighting for us. Yeah, they made mistakes. Get over it. A lot of supposedly smart people were on board with them, including many in your current Congress who are going to “fix” healthcare.

How safe do you feel now that BO has apologized to everyone who will give him a platform to grovel? Christmas Day is your answer for that and there’s plenty more coming. Do you think these Arab Aholes are ready to negotiate and compromise now that Mr. “I’m sorry for the last 8 years” is in charge? These people will sooner slaughter you than tolerate you. Too bad we can’t cut there heads off on YouTube they way they like to do us.

Naive, woefully inexperienced, pathetically liberal. Socialism trumps all including the constitution. The fruits of your hard work for the greater good.  What else would you expect from an academic? You are in the wrong business if you support this guy. You should get a job with the local government or maybe Target, hunker down and ride this out. Capitalism is on the chopping block, no sense in pushing too hard. You’ll get your handout in the new order, just go along.

Massachusetts gets it, you need to wise up too. The market does what it does despite idiots in Washington, not because of them. Go read a book.

Obama is the furthest thing from a leader that you could possibly be.  DO you think the Dems support him?  Publicly yes.  Privately?  Are you kidding?  Do you know how many Dems are thanking their holy God that Massachusetts voted in the GOP?  Otherwise, they were facing one of two evils: vote FOR healthcare and lose their next election because they know the public doesn’t want it, or vote AGAINST it and piss off Raum Emanual, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi, and watch ANY support they would have received from the White House dry up.  They were FUKCED! And they all think Obama is a useless DINK!  They all thought he would be the next coming of Camelot, and he turned out to be more the Court Jester.

[quote=amfUBS]

Originally posted by fubs

Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama’s first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas. 

Facts are pesky things.<o:p></o:p>

Right about now, I miss George Bush. d*** Cheney too. Straight forward, no BS, not afraid to defend this country and not going to apologize for it either. They understood the seriousness of the threat against us and they were resolute in fighting for us. Yeah, they made mistakes. Get over it. A lot of supposedly smart people were on board with them, including many in your current Congress who are going to “fix” healthcare.

How safe do you feel now that BO has apologized to everyone who will give him a platform to grovel? Christmas Day is your answer for that and there’s plenty more coming. Do you think these Arab Aholes are ready to negotiate and compromise now that Mr. “I’m sorry for the last 8 years” is in charge? These people will sooner slaughter you than tolerate you. Too bad we can’t cut there heads off on YouTube they way they like to do us.

Naive, woefully inexperienced, pathetically liberal. Socialism trumps all including the constitution. The fruits of your hard work for the greater good.  What else would you expect from an academic? You are in the wrong business if you support this guy. You should get a job with the local government or maybe Target, hunker down and ride this out. Capitalism is on the chopping block, no sense in pushing too hard. You’ll get your handout in the new order, just go along.

Massachusetts gets it, you need to wise up too. The market does what it does despite idiots in Washington, not because of them. Go read a book.

[quote=fubs] Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama’s first year. The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas. Facts are pesky things.

[/quote]





Actually



the dow was up 18.1% in 2009 and was 9625 on Nov 4, 2008.



I’m guessing your in a FA training program or newly registered. (not far removed from Trig homework)



Rose colored glasses and naivete are typical in youth.



It’s OK. Optimism is good.



Dude.

[quote=amfUBS]



>Naive, woefully inexperienced, pathetically liberal.



Socialism trumps all including the constitution.



The fruits of your hard work for the greater good.



What else would you expect from an academic? You are in the wrong business if you support this guy.



You should get a job with the local government or maybe Target, hunker down and ride this out.



Capitalism is on the chopping block, no sense in pushing too hard.



You’ll get your handout in the new order, just go along.



{QUOTE}





amen brother.   well put

[quote=Shania Twain] [quote=fubs] Dude - the market was up 35% for Obama’s first year.  The Worst President Ever is currently clearing brush somewhere in Texas.  Facts are pesky things.

[/quote]





Actually



the dow was up 18.1% in 2009 and was 9625 on Nov 4, 2008.



I’m guessing your in a FA training program or newly registered. (not far removed from Trig homework)



Rose colored glasses and naivete are typical in youth.



It’s OK. Optimism is good.



Dude.[/quote]

Hey butterscotch, I only deal in facts.  http://www.cnbc.com/id/34941041

When we say “market” we’re not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500.  I’m guessing you’re some middle aged dude in a bank program selling fixed annuities to grandmothers. 

And actually- I’m retired.

[quote=fubs]

[quote=Shania Twain]



When we say “market” we’re not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500.



[/quote]





spx was up 26.2% in 2009

1006 on nov 4 2008



Is “we” your training class?



dude.

[quote=Shania Twain] [quote=fubs]

[quote=Shania Twain]



When we say “market” we’re not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500.  I’m guessing you’re some middle aged dude in a bank program selling fixed annuities to grandmothers. 



[/quote]





spx was up 26.2% in 2009

1006 on nov 4 2008



dude.[/quote]

Since the Close on President Obama’s Inauguration Day on 1/20/2009:

OK your right.



this is a stupid argument

pres. like number 7 in importance relative to equity performance.

[quote=fubs]

Dude you sound ready to wet yourself.  Here read this: http://www.sodahead.com/world-news/five-things-more-likely-to-kill-you-than-a-terrorist/blog-232421/

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2794660.htm

You’re one of those people led around by the nose by the media, aren’t you?  Soak in all the “information” out there and think you’re “in the know” ?  Go out, get some fresh air, and relax. 

PS GWB and Cheney had plenty of chances to “defend their country” in Vietnam, but wussed out.  Its real easy to be a tough guy when someone else is doing the fighting.
[/quote]


Fubs - Let me get this straight.  You talk about other people being led around by the nose by the media, yet post of all things a blog and a link to abc?

You’re also significantly less likely to be killed by a terrorist simply because of Bush and Cheney’s policies.  You are also more likely to die by choking on a chicken bone.  Just remember though, if the guy on the plane during Christmas had succeeded, those odds would go up.  And every time someone got killed it would go up.

Here is a little light reading for those of you who oppose the Iraq war:

MYTH #1 - The war in Iraq was an invasion, not a liberation by the U.S.

REALITY: Under the rule of Saddam Hussein and the Arab Ba’ath Socialist Party, human rights conditions were virtually non-existent. According to numerous human rights organizations and government agencies including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, the U.S. Department of State and the British Commission on Human Rights, the people of Iraq lived in perpetual fear of unusually cruel and humiliating torture practices. Numerous reports of arbitrary sadistic physical torture, imprisonment, suppression of civil rights and women’s rights were frequent and widespread. Victims of torture in Iraq were subjected to hand piercing, eye gouging, whippings, electric shock, amputation and perverse sexual abuse. In 2000, U.N. reports surfaced that tongue amputation was being used as a new, general practice against suspects who were accused of speaking out against the Ba’ath regime. Other methods such as burning skin with blowtorches, pulling back of fingernails, breaking of limbs, hanging people from suspension from ceilings and even acid baths have also been widely reported by numerous human rights organizations and government agency investigations.

Among Saddam Hussein’s most abominable forms of torture was the practice of state licensed rape against women. Evidence has proven that the Ba’ath regime actually employed “soldiers whose job it (was) to violate the honor of a woman.” Innocent women who were merely related or married to a man accused of defying Saddam Hussein were often taken to special prison cells where they were raped by soldiers as their relatives or husbands were forced to watch. The practice of state licensed rape was first confirmed by a former member of the Iraqi Intelligence service named Khalid Al-Janbi who reported that the Technical Operations Directorate of the Mukhabarat (intelligence service) used rape and sexual assault as a systematic practice to achieve political and interrogative purposes, especially to coerce family members into cooperation or submission.  As a general policy, prostitution was punished by public beheading, and women were often executed arbitrarily upon accusation without even having a trial. Despite the so-called constitutional rights women had, the female population in Iraq often lived at the mercy of what was actually a totalitarian, patriarchal society that ruled with a discriminatory, iron hand. Mass rapes against women were committed by Iraqi soldiers during the Al-Anfal campaign against the Kurds in 1988 and against Kuwaiti women when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. The phenomenon of mass sexual crimes committed against women by Iraqi officials and soldiers is perhaps one of the most widespread and severe in modern history.

Even Iraqi celebrities were not above maltreatment. In May 2001, Saad Keis Naoman, an Iraqi soccer player who defected to Europe told reporters that he and his teammates were tortured personally by Saddam Hussein’s son, Uday Hussein for what he deemed were poor athletic performances. Naoman said he was flogged repeatedly until he bled, forcing him to sleep on his stomach in the cell in which he was jailed. Naoman’s report affirmed an earlier account by another Iraqi international soccer player, Sharar Haydar Mohamad Al-Hadithi, who said in August 1999 that he and his teammates were also tortured by Uday for not winning matches. In 2000, reports surfaced that three soccer players who lost an October game in the Asian cup quarter finals were detained and whipped repeatedly for three days. Uday Hussein was also infamous for personally, arbitrarily picking women off the streets of Iraq and sexually violating them. In 2003, Latif Yahia, an Iraqi who said he was coerced into serving as Uday’s body double said Uday made an implied threat to rape his sister if he did not cooperate. Yahia also confirmed reports about the ‘Red Room’ tiny, physically confining prison cells where inmates were unable to move, blinded with a red light to psychologically render them into submission where they were eventually subjected to physical torture. It is common knowledge that Saddam Hussein’s sons personally took sadistic pleasure in administering torture to many arbitrary victims.

Mass disappearances, genocide and retaliation against specific ethnic and political groups were not uncommon either under Saddam Hussein. Shi’a muslims who had Persian ancestry were expelled into Iran during the 1970’s and 1980’s and during the 1988 Anfal campaign led against the Kurds, an estimated 100,000 people ‘disappeared,’ but were believed to have been murdered. In November 1999, Amnesty International released a report titled, “Iraq: Victims of Systematic Repression,” that asserted thousands of people had been arbitrarily arrested and imprisoned by Saddam Hussein for merely being suspected of participating in opposition activities or because they were related to accused dissidents. In almost all cases, family members were never told where their loved ones are taken, but were forced to pay for their relatives’ execution afterward. In some cases, they were forced to retrieve the mutilated corpse of their tortured and murdered relatives.

Since the liberation of Iraq in 2003, all of these practices came to a halt with the fall of Saddam Hussein and the collapse of his Ba’ath regime. Although there has been continued violence in Iraq because of the continued war between coalition forces and the insurgency, the violence is not systematic or institutional and it being fought by the government as opposed to being condoned and practiced by it. Chapter III, Articles 19-36 of the new Constitution of Iraq passed in October 2005 guarantee a wide range of ‘fundamental rights’ that ensure that “citizens are equal under the law, without discrimination because of sex, blood, language, social origin or religion.” It is specifically unlawful for the government to practice any act that violates a person’s dignity or personal integrity. Private communications are protected, freedom of speech and association is guaranteed and public office is open to all members of the population. Although some Ba’ath party loyalists continue to denounce the liberation effort, the overwhelming population of Iraq is relieved and thankful that Saddam Hussein and his sons were removed from power and the Ba’ath regime was outlawed.

MYTH #2 - The war has not helped the Iraqi people.

REALITY: Since the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom, the United States, UNICEF and World Health Organization (WHO) have embarked upon numerous humanitarian ventures to help the Iraqi people. According to the US Agency for International Development (USAID), over 600 primary health care centers have been provided with equipment, 110 medical facilities have been renovated and 11,400 health care workers have been trained. In 2005 alone, 98% of children between the ages of 1-5 years old (3.62 million) were vaccinated against measles, mumps and rubella and 97% of children (4.56 million) were vaccinated against polio.  The U.S. has invested a total of more than $600 million in health programs to help the Iraqi people since 2003. Nearly 3,000 schools have been rehabilitated and 20 million textbooks have been issued to Iraqi school children. 84 primary and secondary schools are being established and accelerated educational programs are being implemented to help improve the literary rate among young boys and girls.

USAID has also refurbished 10 sewage treatment plants and given 3.1 million Iraqis access to clean water that did not have it prior to the liberation. USAID has also installed small water treatment systems giving almost 500,000 villagers access to clean water. More than 2.3 million Iraqis have had either restored or new water treatment  provided to them. USAID has contributed more than $425 million in food and cash to ensure the continued successful distribution of food to Iraqis and has also helped the new Iraqi Ministry of Trade develop a centralized database and ration card system to equally distribute rations among 26 million Iraqis while continuing to implement food security programs.

The U.S. has practically restored the electrical power that was available to Iraq before Operation Iraqi Freedom from the 4.5 megawatts (MW) available in April 2003 to 8.5 MW, repaired thermal units, replaced and added turbines, rehabilitated the transmission network. Throughout USAID’s 2.3 billion Iraq Infrastructure Reconstruction Program, an additional 1,292 MW were added to Iraq’s power grid, and more than 240 Ministry of Electricity officials, plant managers and engineers have all received training to safely operate Iraq’s power plants. Since 2003, telephone subscriptions in Iraq have increased almost four-fold from 1.2 million land lines to the use of 4.6 million land and cell phone lines, and USAID has installed a $51.8 million consolidated optic fiber network which allows Iraqi officials to protect and control the electrical grid from a central location.

Environmental conditions have improved as well in Iraq since the liberation effort started. USAID has helped restore the 8,000 square miles of the Mesopotamian Marshlands destroyed by Saddam Hussein and the Ba’athist regime during the  Shi’a insurrection of 1991. Hussein drained the marshlands as a way to punish the Shi’a population in that area after he decided they were disloyal to his regime. Draining the marshland was a sure way of drying out the region which in turn led to the collapse of the agrarian systems functioning there. After the Ba’athist regime raided settlements, they killed tens of thousands, destroyed livestock and burned houses. Hussein’s treatment of the marshlands also led to the death of countless wildlife that suffered terribly. As a result, more than 100,000 people were forced to relocate. USAID convened an international team and created a Marshlands Restoration Program by implementing a strategic re-flood of the area while also establishing new farms to revitalize the livestock in the region.

The United States has also helped create Volunteers for Economic Growth Alliance (VEGA) a consortium of 14 non-governmental organizations partnered with seven regional business centers to help train Iraqi citizens with business skills. More than 300 grants have helped support small and medium-sized business enterprises and the newly implemented Vocational Educational Program has offered vocational and technical training to more than 12,000 Iraqis, 34 percent of whom are women. The outreach programs have helped place more than 7,000 people in short-term jobs. Although infrastructure was destroyed when coalition forces liberated Iraq in 2003, much of that infrastructure has been rebuilt and more infrastructure continues to be built while numerous charitable, educational and humanitarian programs are being implemented to assist the Iraq people while their country transitions into a flourishing, democratic state.

MYTH #3- The doctrine of regime change and national liberation was developed by Neo-conservatives in recent history.

REALITY: Regime change and national liberation is an idea that stems from the Truman Doctrine that developed after the creation of the United Nations in 1945. That doctrine was implemented by Democratic President Harry S. Truman during the Marshall Plan in the wake of World War II when America democratized Europe in the post-Nazi era after the fall of the Third Reich. In fact, much of the democratic transitioning implemented by Paul Bremer, head of the Provisional Coalition Authority to de-Ba’athify Iraq was based on the Allies de-Nazification plan implemented in Europe after WWII. The U.S. also implemented programs to phase out the effects of Imperialism from Japan and Fascism from Italy. After WWII, the continued struggle for global democratization continued when Truman sent troops to defend South Korea from communist invasion as well as the attempts made by  Democratic Presidents Kennedy and Johnson when they deployed troops to Vietnam for the same reason. Democratic President Jimmy Carter instituted the Carter Doctrine in 1980 which made it the policy of the United States to take an aggressive stance in defending its national interests in the Middle East and gulf region. Presidents Reagan (Nicaragua, Panama), Bush (41) (Iraq, Kuwait) and Clinton (Bosnia, Iraq) all took military action against foreign countries either to challenge totalitarianism or preserve human rights.

MYTH #4 - The policy to liberate Iraq and remove Saddam Hussein from power was developed by the Bush 43 administration.

REALITY: It became the official policy of the United States of America under President Clinton in 1998 to support “regime change” in Iraq and support the removal of Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath regime from power under the Iraq Liberation Act (Public Law 105-358, House Resolution 4655). After finding that Saddam Hussein was in violation of the cease fire conditions in U.N. Resolution 687, Congress and President Clinton also recognized that Iraq had denied weapons inspectors from the UN Special Commission on Iraq unfettered access to search for weapons of mass destruction. President Clinton and the Congress also recognized the many human rights violations that Saddam Hussein and the Ba’ath regime committed and decreed that “It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.” The Act’s stated purpose was “to establish a program to support a transition to democracy in Iraq.”

In February 1999, President Clinton selected 7 organizations that opposed Hussein to receive support from the Act including the Iraqi National Congress, Iraqi National Accord, Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, Movement for Constitutional Monarchy, Islamic Movement of Iraqi Kurdistan and the Kurdistan Democratic Party. The Act authorized the President to send humanitarian assistance and military assistance to train an army, but did not grant the President unilateral authority to send U.S. military force (President Bush did not act unilaterally in 2003 during Operation Iraqi Freedom since he had Congress’ approval to send troops). The Act also established that Congress and the President should call upon the U.N. to set up a war crimes tribunal to prosecute and punish Saddam Hussein and his Ba’ath regime and prepare a program to help Iraq transition to a democratic state after his removal.

In December 1998, only six weeks after the Act was passed, President Clinton and the United Kingdom launched Operation Desert Fox, a four day bombing campaign on Iraqi targets. Then US Secretary of State Madeline Albright justified the military attack, saying the US and UK were trying to “degrade” Hussein’s ability to use weapons of mass destruction. Albright explained that “The weapons of mass destruction are the threat of the future. I think the President [Clinton] explained very clearly that this is the threat of the 21st century.” The bombing campaign targeted Hussein’s elite Republican Guard, one of his royal palaces, air defense system command centers and weapons depots. Upon leaving office, President Clinton told incoming President Bush that he considered Hussein one of the most dangerous individuals in the world and warned that he would cause Bush “a world of problems.”

MYTH #5 - President Bush violated international law by starting a new war in Iraq in 2003.

REALITY: President Bush did not start a new war in 2003. The so-called 2003 Iraq War is actually a continuation of the original Gulf War that was authorized in 1990 by the United Nations. In Resolution 678, the UN authorized a coalition of the willing to use force against Iraq after it invaded Kuwait in 1990. In the wake of Operation Desert Storm in 1992, the UN suspended (not ended) the Gulf War by calling a cease fire in Resolution 687. Resolution 687 required Saddam Hussein to comply with conditions that included complete disarmament of weapons of mass destruction and allowing UN inspectors unlimited access to monitor Iraq’s weapons programs. Under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties, a party may suspend  a multilateral treaty (the effect of Resolution 687) if there has been a “material breach” of the terms of that treaty.

In 2002, the U.N. passed Resolution 1441 which determined that Iraq was not complying with the cease fire conditions and was in “material breach” of the terms of Resolution 687.  Resolution 1441 gave Iraq “a final opportunity to comply with its disarmament obligations” and warned there would be “serious consequences” if it did not. During this time, UN weapons inspectors still faced obstacles and resistance from Iraqi officials to freely inspect for weapons of mass destruction, placing  Saddam Hussein in material breach of Resolution 687. As a result of  Iraq’s violation of Resolution 687,  the terms of  the cease fire no longer had to be honored by the U.N. Thus, any member state that felt threatened by this violation could act under two different theories of international law:

THEORY 1: THE GULF WAR NEVER  ENDED AND SADDAM HUSSEIN’S MATERIAL BREACH OF THE CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT REACTIVATED THE ORIGINAL WAR.

Once the cease fire prescribed in Resolution 687 came to an end, the original war authorized under Resolution 678 became active again. Since Resolution 1441 stated that nothing in the resolution was meant to “constrain any member state from acting to defend itself against the threat posed by Iraq,” it was once again legal for the United States and United Kingdom to initiate military action against Iraq (a number of other countries including Australia and Spain were also involved in the coalition of the willing). In other words, the only thing that suspended the war in U.N. Resolution 678 was the cease fire set out in U.N. Resolution 687. Once Saddam Hussein was deemed to be in “material breach” of Resolution 687, Resolution 678 was no longer suspended - nor was the war.

The U.N. Resolution chronology is as follows:

1990, Resolution 678: Authorization for the use of force against Iraq.

1992, Resolution 687: Cease fire of military action as long as Saddam Hussein complies with U.N. conditions.

2002, Resolution 1441: U.N. finds Saddam Hussein in ”material breach” of conditions in Resolution 687, thus reactivating Resolution 678, and authorizing the original use of force against Iraq.

THEORY 2: IRAQ PRESENTED AN IMMINENT THREAT TO OTHER MEMBER STATES UNDER ARTICLE 51 OF THE U.N. CHARTER.

Another theory of international law used by the U.S. that justified the use of force against Iraq came under Article 51 of the U.N. Charter that says that nothing in the U.N. Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self defense. This theory involves the ‘Caroline Doctrine’ which says a member state may use force against another members state if that state faces an imminent threat and other circumstances. These circumstances and elements are outlined in detail in MYTH 8.

MYTH #6 - President Bush violated domestic law and the U.S. Constitution by sending troops to Iraq in 2003.

REALITY: In October 2002 Congress passed the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 (Public Law 107-243) by a vote of 77-23 in the U.S. Senate. The resolution authorized the President to use whatever military force was necessary to “strictly enforce through the U.N. Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.” In 2003, the constitutionality of the Iraq Resolution and the President’s right to declare war was challenged in ruled in Doe v. Bush, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 1st Circuit dismissed the case. Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution authorizes Congress to declare war and Article II, Section 2 grants war powers to the President as commander and chief of the armed forces. In 1863, the U.S. Supreme Court actually ruled in the Prize cases that the President is actually “bound to resist force by force.” In the instance of Operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003 however, Congress did authorize the President to use military force when they passed the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002.

MYTH #7 - President Bush lied about Saddam Hussein having the capability of building weapons of mass destruction.

REALITY: The actual reason as outlined in the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 was to  “strictly enforce through the U.N. Security Council all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.” This decision came after the U.N. Security Council unanimously passed Resolution 1441 which stated that Iraq was in “material breach” of the cease fire conditions prescribed in Resolution 687 and that there would be “serious consequences” if Iraq did not comply immediately. Iraq’s breach of Resolution 687 not only included the mandatory surrender of any weapons of mass destruction, but also prohibited the construction of prohibited missiles and attempted procurement of prohibited armaments while allowing U.N. weapons inspectors unfettered access to search for prohibited weapons and compensating Kuwait for the destruction and looting caused by Iraqi troops during the invasion of 1990.

During his 1998 State of the Union Address, President Clinton told the nation, “Together we must confront the new hazards of chemical and biological weapons, and the outlaw states, terrorists and organized criminals seeking to acquire them. Saddam Hussein has spent the better part of this decade and much of his nation’s wealth, not on providing for the Iraqi people, but on developing nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. The United Nations weapons inspectors have done a truly remarkable job finding and destroying more of Iraq’s arsenal than was destroyed during the entire Gulf War. Now, Saddam Hussein wants to stop them from completing their mission. I know I speak for everyone in this chamber, Republicans and Democrats when I say to Saddam Hussein, you cannot defy the will of the world, and when I say to him, you have used weapons of mass destruction before - we are determined to deny you the use to use them again.”

In February 1998, several months before Congress and President Clinton passed the Iraq Liberation Act, President Clinton addressed the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Pentagon staff, and reported to them that Saddam Hussein had 2,000 gallons of anthrax, 25 biological-filled Scud warheads, 157 aerial bombs and 5,000 tons of botulinum, a nerve agent causing paralysis. Clinton accused Hussein of impeding UN weapons inspectors, saying:

“Over the past few months as [the weapons inspectors] have come closer to rooting out Iraq’s remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions by imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still have not been inspected off limits. . .  It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons. . .  Now, let’s imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you he’ll use the arsenal.”

Prior to Resolution 1441 being passed on Nov. 8, 2002, President Bush spoke before the U.N. General Assembly and specifically argued that in addition to concerns about Iraq’s armaments, the U.N. Commission on Human Rights had found “extremely grave” human rights violations in 2001 and that Iraq had violated economic sanctions as prescribed in U.N. Resolution 660. Concerns about Iraq illegally trying to acquire and build weapons of mass destruction stem from the fact that in 1990 Saddam Hussein stockpiled 550 tons of yellowcake uranium at the Tuwaitha nuclear complex, 12 miles south of Baghdad.

In 2002, evidence surfaced that Saddam Hussein was trying to acquire high-strength aluminum tubes which was also a violation of U.N. conditions. There were disputed viewpoints within the U.S. government as to what the tubes could be used for. The Department of Energy and Bureau of Intelligence Research did not believe that the tubes could be used to make enriched uranium for nuclear bombs, but the Bush administration had serious concerns. Many of the allegations made against the President for lying about Iraq stem from claims made by former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson. Wilson was sent by the CIA to Africa to investigate claims that Saddam Hussein was trying to acquire additional yellowcake uranium from Nigeria. After visiting Nigeria however, Wilson concluded that Hussein was not trying to buy uranium. Whether or not Saddam Hussein was trying to acquire more yellowcake uranium did not change the fact coalition allies already had intelligence that demonstrated he still possessed 550 tons of it before the 1990 Gulf War started.

Based on the already acquired yellowcake uranium from 1990, the unlawful attempt to procure aluminum tubes and the numerous violations of U.N. cease fire conditions prescribed in Resolution 687, coupled with the danger the U.S. faced in the wake of 9/11 from terrorist organizations that could have been in contact with Iraqi leadership, President Bush used the authorization granted to him by Congress and U.N. Resolution 678 to send troops back to Iraq. President Bush 41, President Clinton and President Bush 43 all had valid concerns based on intelligence reports that suggested Saddam Hussein had the capability of producing weapons of mass destruction. Hussein’s refusal to allow UN weapons inspectors full access to search for weapons of mass destruction coupled with his previous hostile and unpredictable actions, such as using weapons of mass destruction against his own people in Kurdistan during the genocidal al-Anfal campaign that killed up to 100,000 innocent civilians, the 1990 invasion of Kuwait and his suspected terrorist connections prompted both Democratic and Republican leaders to believe he was capable of building a sophisticated weapons program that could effectively be used against the United States or her allies.

It was unknown to the general public throughout most of President Bush’s presidency why Saddam Hussein obstructed UN weapons inspectors from having full access to search for weapons of mass destruction. Some analysts speculated the weapons are still there but have not been found while others suggest they were transported into Syria. The prevailing theory was that Hussein was trying to create the false impression he had weapons of mass destruction to intimidate Iran which had proven to be a dangerous enemy of Iraq’s during the 1980’s.

On July 5, 2008, the Associated Press reported that the 550 tons of yellowcake uranium Saddam Hussein acquired before the Gulf War was found and moved to energy processing plants in Ontario, Canada. Despite the criticism the President endured, the Bush administration kept the news of the yellowcake uranium secret until it was safely out of Iraq to prevent any of it from being seized by the insurgency. Since the Associated Press reported its confirmed discovery and transport however, there has been virtually no response from the national or international media to correct the historical record about the capabilities that Saddam Hussein actually had to build a program that was capable of producing weapons of mass destruction.

MYTH #8 - Since there were no weapons of mass destruction found, they never existed and thus Iraq did not present an imminent threat.

REALITY: As stated, Iraq already possessed 550 tons of yellowcake uranium at the Tuwaitha nuclear complex as well as the 2,000 gallons of anthrax, 25 biological-filled Scud warheads, 157 aerial bombs and 5,000 tons of botulinum that President Clinton briefed the Pentagon about in February 1998 prior to passing the Iraq Liberation Act. The question of whether or not Iraq presented an “imminent threat” is a theoretical one based on the interpretation of what’s known as the “Caroline Doctrine” under international case law stemming from Article 51 of the U.N. Charter.

Under Article 51, the International Court of Justice has ruled that a member state may use force or launch an attack on another member state if the other state presents a (1) grave threat (2) the primary purpose of using force is to avert that threat (3) the attack is the last resort (4) the means of force are proportional (under case law interpretation, this means a member state cannot use nuclear weapons unless they are being threatened with nuclear weapons) and (5) there must be a reasonable chance the use of force will succeed without calamitous consequences.

The first element requiring a “grave threat” is the part that refers to “imminence.” Did Iraq present a “grave threat?” Were they an imminent danger? What the Bush Doctrine is arguing is that the landscape of the Caroline Doctrine has changed in the age of terrorism. The technological sophistication of weapons of mass destruction and the willingness of rogue states (states that sponsor terrorism or illegally acquire weapons of mass destruction) or pariah states (states that engage in severe human rights abuse) to aid and arm terrorists with such weapons places legitimate, sovereign member states that are terrorist targets in a perpetual phase of facing imminent threat. (1) Based on the representations made by UN weapons inspectors, President Clinton and the intelligence obtained under President Bush 43 about yellowcake uranium, it was clear Iraq was capable of building a program to build weapons of mass destruction and therefore presented an imminent threat to other member states.

The primary purpose as prescribed by Congress’ 2002 Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution was to (2) avert that threat and under U.N. Resolution 1441, the world had (3) reached its last resort to compel Saddam Hussein to fully cooperate with weapons inspectors (U.N. Resolution 1441). Nuclear weapons were not used against Iraq, and therefore (4) the force was proportional. Saddam Hussein’s Ba’ath regime was removed from power within six weeks (March 20-April 30).  At this stage, the U.S. had lost 130 troops, the U.K. had lost 33 troops, coupled with the loss of 9,200 Iraqi soldiers and 7,299 civilians. Although these deaths are tragic, and there has been chaos and continued fighting launched by numerous insurgency movements, the consequences (5) have not fit the definition of “calamitous,” under international law.  Compare the following: Since Operation Iraqi Freedom was launched in 2003,  approximately 4,200 U.S. troops have been killed and approximately 1,000,000 Iraqi civilians have lost their lives. In the Korean War initiated by President Truman, nearly 40,000 U.S. troops were killed and an estimated 2,000,000 civilians died. During the Vietnam War initiated by President Kennedy and continued by President Johnson, 60,000 American troops were killed and over 5,000,000 civilians died.

MYTH #9 - The War on Terror was only about al-Qaeda and Afghanistan because Saddam Hussein did not present a terrorist threat.

REALITY: Iraq has engaged in acts of terrorism against the United States and also helped support and fund terrorists who have acted against Israel. In April 1993, Saddam Hussein attempted to have to have President Bush (41) assassinated while he was visiting Kuwait. President Clinton retaliated in June by firing 24 cruise missiles at the headquarters for the Iraqi intelligence service located in Baghdad’s Al Mansur district and destroying it. The assassination attempt only heightened concerns that Iraq was somehow tied to the February 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Iraqi affairs expert Laurie Mylorie and former CIA Director James Woolsey both professed their belief that the Ramzi Yousef, the architect of the 1993 bombing was tied to Iraqi intelligence service, but the connection was not proven and the allegation remains a highly controversial one. Although there is no evidence of an actual operational relationship between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence determined that members of Saddam Hussein’s Ba’athist regime met with al-Qaeda operatives in Sudan in 1995  and the 9/11 Commission Report makes mention of a non-aggression pact brokered between al-Qaeda and Iraq by a Sudanese terrorist operative. Saddam Hussein has also helped train and fund members of the Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine, a terrorist organization that has received funding from Hezbollah, and is responsible for more than 30 suicide bombings to date.

MYTH #10 - The United States invaded Iraq to steal her oil.

REALITY: Ever since the commencement of Operation Iraqi Freedom in March 2003, there have been rumors and false accusations that President Bush used U.S. military forces to imperialistically invade Iraq to illegally seize her oil wells. Although this inference has become a popular urban legend throughout the world, there has never been any evidence or even any explanation how this fictitious scheme would work. The reality of what is happening with Iraq’s oil is under debate right now in the Iraqi Council of Representatives and the ultimate effect of the plan they’re considering will not be much different than what it was before.

Iraq’s oil was once under the control of the Iraq Petroleum Company with had partnerships with foreign oil companies such as BP, Chevron, Exxon, Mobil and Shell. However, in 1961 Iraq passed Public Law No. 80 which allowed Iraq to expropriate 95 percent of the Iraq Petroleum Company’s contracts. In 1964, Iraq created the Iraq National Oil Company and in 1967 signed the Iraq-Soviet Protocol in which the USSR committed financial and technical aid to the nationalized company. In 1972, Iraq’s entire oil supply was nationalized and was placed under direct control of President Saddam Hussein and the Arab Ba’ath Socialist Party through the Iraq National Oil Company. Unlike National Iranian Oil Company, the Iraq National Oil Company was prohibited from entering into any ‘production sharing agreements’ (PSAs) with western, private oil companies. Instead, they entered into an exclusive PSA with the Soviet Union giving the communist regime exclusive trade option over the second most plenary oil supply in the world (Saudi Arabia has the first). Production Sharing Agreements are a special contract entered into between a private corporate enterprise and a state government in which the government grants the company the right to extract natural resources at the company’s cost while splitting profits that come from the harvesting and sales of that resource. PSA’s were first used in Bolivia in the 1950’s and then Indonesia in the 1960’s. In PSAs, the company is allowed to recover expenses from what is called “cost oil” and is then typically allowed to keep a low percentage of “profit oil” with the remaining amount going to the government.

During the 1990’s, Saddam Hussein gave PSA’s to both Russian companies and Chinese enterprises with a profit percentage of less than 10 percent. In 2004, the Bush administration began working with the Iraqi cabinet and Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki to develop what is now being termed the Draft Oil Law. The Draft Oil Law will set up new PSA’s with foreign, private oil enterprises with 17 of Iraq’s 80 oil fields remaining under the control of the Iraq National Oil Company and the remaining 63 being open to private development. Under the new PSA, profit shares up to 12.5 percent will be available and contracts will be awarded by local provinces and governates with veto power held by the Iraqi national government. This will allow local areas to decide which oil companies, if any, they want to allow to develop oil in their province with the profit revenue being funneled through the country on a per capita basis. This simply means that a similar type of arrangement will be established as before, except that private oil companies instead of (the now defunct) Soviet Union or enterprises exclusively in China and Russia will be able to enter into PSAs. However, most of the profit will still go to the Iraqi people.

[quote=fubs]1) You’re confusing Iraq and Terrorism.  15 of the 19 terrorists from 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia (you remember them- that’s the country that GWB went to and kissed the leader) 0 of the terrorists came from Iraq.  How many world leaders tried to assassinate an American President.  I know that if someone tried to kill Obama right now, I would be almost pissed off enough to re-enlist.  I am not confusing Iraq and terrorism.  There was evidence near Mandali Iraq of al Quaeda terrorist camps.  There were also over 2000 mortars containing mustard gas (WMD anybody).  These I saw with my own eyes.  Don’t believe me?  What about Marcus Lutrell, the Navy SEAL who wrote Lone Survivor - after the initial invasion, he and his teams found not one, but three terrorist training camps that were set up like the al Qaeda ones in Afghanistan, in addition to finding the mobile unit that housed the Uranium.  You listen too much to Keith and Rachel.  Take it from someone who has been there. 

2) If you’re relying on a politician to “keep you safe” you are severely mistaken.  I rely on my own skills, but president’s DO have quite an arsenal at their disposal and those that actually care, like Bush can make a difference.

3) What would your reaction be if we had a terrorist attack here and the mastermind’s family had done business with Obama’s family?  You know exactly what your reaction and the rest of the right’s would be.  Not on the right.  And don’t care who he’s done business with, who he went to church with (Jeremiah Wright does not mean that Obama is a racist). 

4) We’ve had less terrorist incidents or attacks under Obama and the market did much better under him during his first year compared to GWBs first year.  So why do you people hate him so much?  I don’t hate Obama, once again.  However, he has done absolutely nothing.  We had a terrorist attack on CIA people in Afghanistan (he was Turkish, if you recall), the Army Major, and the underwear bomber.  That’s three.  How many happened during Bush’s first year?  Not to mention, that the pain of 9/11 is still there.  Don’t let your beliefs get in the way of the facts fubs.  Also, don’t think you know someone just because they post something.

If I didn’t have a family, and someone tried to kill my president (obama, nixon, kennedy, bush 41, bush 43 or clinton or any of them) I would move heaven and earth to destroy them.  You don’t fcuk with the United States.  And the President represents our country.  I may disagree with Obama’s policies, but I think he has a good heart.  He is just afraid to do what is necessary because he likes being popular.



[/quote]

[quote=fubs]

[quote=Shania Twain] [quote=fubs]

[quote=Shania Twain]



When we say “market” we’re not referring to the Dow, rather the S&P 500.  I’m guessing you’re some middle aged dude in a bank program selling fixed annuities to grandmothers. 



[/quote]





spx was up 26.2% in 2009

1006 on nov 4 2008



dude.[/quote]

Since the Close on President Obama’s Inauguration Day on 1/20/2009:

“I became a Yankee fan in 1996, doesn’t mean I deserve a World Series ring.”