Why I quit Part VII
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Spiff,
Company matching on 401K? Group health benefits? Has something changed at Jones since I left 2.5 years ago?
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
[quote=STL Sucks]Me doth think thee protest too much! Or a better example, for the STL clones: Think of me like Bob Gibson, throwing the heat high and tight. I own this plate. I dare you to charge the mound. A better question might be of your 27 reps out five years or more minus the five “others”, how many have spouses that work? BTW if you are out 27 years you SHOULD have 40k+ rolling four! Remember I was a partner. I have skills, and now I have the bills![/quote]
OK, you lost me. What does having a spouse that works have to do with this conversation? I've not been in the field for more than five years yet and my spouse doesn't work. But that's a personal choice because we believe our kids are more important than money and I'd rather have my wife at home with my kids than making $30K a year as a teacher.
If you weren't aware, some women or men like to work whether they have to or not. In my region some are teachers, some run businesses, one is even an evil GP. That has nothing to do with their spouse's net, but more with their own personal satisfaction. And maybe a decision about kids or family that supercedes any monetary gain.
Actually when I look at the list it's probably a 50/50 split. And of the 27 I don't have any idea of how many of their spouses really need to work vs want to work. This arguement is as lame as the beginning of this thread.
Hey, STL...do you hear that? That's the sound of the crack of my bat. You better look over your shoulder quick because the next sound you hear is going to be the fans going crazy cause the ball just left the park.
[/quote]Actually my wife works, and I don't see what that has to do with the price of tea in China at all. I think STL is making a "mine is bigger than yours" sort of argument here. You know "I'm such a big hitter and making so much bank that my pretty trophy wife doesn't have to go to work....."
To be fair, at this stage in my indy life where things are growing quickly and I am on the verge of making a few significant investments in my business, if the wife wasn't working we might be living in a smaller home, but we wouldn't be worrying about the wolf at the door.
The irony here is that I could easily be the one who decided to stay at home with the kids and my life would be less stressful and I could play more golf, but I want to work and continue to build my business. This is in no small part because I enjoy it and yes, like others, I enjoy having money. Too, frankly, with some of the things I've seen in life I place little faith in job security in corporate America. My wife's employer is a publicly traded corporation, and it's always on my mind that a new CEO could come in or the winds could change in some other way, and her career prospects could change for the negative through no fault of her own. So I prefer the security of controlling my destiny and building something of value for the future.
It's not that I claim that you boys at the kool aid capital have it so bad(forgive the reference I couldn't resist). It's a question of values and priorities. As I started to learn a little about compliance rules(and I'd already learned a lot just being in the business), dealing with HR issues and landlords, I found that it wasn't as big a hassle as I thought. I further decided that there were a lot of overpaid loafers at some of my prior firms, and that I was paying my b/d a LOT to deal with some of those above-cited issues. Maybe it just sounds arrogant, but I decided I could do a lot of that stuff better on my own, or outsource it to a vendor or employee(who I could fire if they were not getting the job done, unlike working for an employee-format b/d). The freedom, lack of politics, and added payouts are absolutely worth the extra work.
This much I will say in closing, perhaps in an attempt to clarify uwec's comments: When I look back to my 'old life', or talk to some of my former colleagues, now I am soooo much happier, am so much more optimistic about my future, and enjoying my work so much more again(like when I was a rookie) that I don't understand why more people don't take the leap. I don't get why they make the jump from wire to wire and take a big check in return for another 5-7 years of indentured servitude. (Note, too, that I offer that argument without even getting into the increased income or tax benefits.) I'm not saying that I look down on them, I just don't "get it". That's all.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
There are some benefits to belonging to a big firm whether it be Jones, Amex, Morgan, Merrill, or any of the others. Advertising, recognition, market share, borrowed credibility. Valid point but YOU are the one helping the clients and if you sell yourself and not the firm, your career will benefit for it. In the case of RJ, I think we have many of those things...LPL requires it's FA's to use a name of their own. Not to mention everything that goes on in the back office. I have all the back office stuff I had a Jones but I only pay 10% instead of 60%. EJ's back office was a big reason I left, RJ makes mistakes too but since I get them at a discount, it doesn't drive me as crazy. I'll bet some people stay at Jones simply for the diversification trips (regardless of how much you pay in taxes). I've heard that too, you over pay for those and can afford to buy your own and avoid the meetings. How about company stock or employer matching on a 401K? YOU pay for every one of those with your 60% and have no control over the "generosity" of your EMPLOYER. I buy company stock in my corp. every single payroll period (twice a month...not just one) How about group health care benefits? If you and your family are healthy, individual coverage will be about half...btw...that "benefit" is paid for from your 60%. If your health is bad, you can get a group policy of your own. How about just having a buddy from the same firm around the corner or in the office next door? You can still be friends with your EJ buddies but most likely if you move they will too.
Money is great. I like it a lot. I'd be lying if I said I didn't come to the field partly for the money. I think when you ONLY focus on the money and not everything else in life you start to get jaded. I focused on money because it is easy to quantify and compare not because it means everything to me. If it did, I'd work a lot harder to make more but I'd rather enjoy life and thanks to this business I can. I worked 80 hrs/week in my prior career to make my employer richer...I like golf and tennis too much to allow that to happen again. I don't want to have to worry about learning new compliance laws or HR issues. Compliance is pretty much the same and what is different just isn't that hard to understand. Jones guys are pretty far from the edge anyway so compliance is a non-issue. HR issues, now there's an area we can spend weeks on. As an Indy, I make the rules for my staff and their main function is NOT to keep an eye on me like the BOA is at EJ. I can surf porn all day if I want and my auditors just don't care. I can have tax software on MY PC and nobody cares...try bringing in your own PC and see what happens at EJ. I don't want to have to go out buy a new computer every so often and then hassle with making sure all the files transfer. I replace my PC about ever 3 years and there is one software program that takes care of it. You can also buy that skill if you don't want to deal with it. I felt I needed a PC at EJ anyway because the systems just didn't have all the functionality I wanted so that arguement would not fly. I don't want to have to haggle with the landlord over my rent. The only person who is going to care about landlord issues is YOU...EJ does not save you one headache in this area. Any stress you feel with your landlord will be there anyway because you still have to relay the story to EJ and wait for a resolution...I can just move my office and tell the landlord to "haul ass".
[/quote]
Spiff, you raised some good points but being Indy is not near the hassle you think it is. It would be a bigger deal for guys not working for EJ before they go Indy but you deal with many of the issues pertaining to running your own office anyway...why not get paid for it? Payroll only takes minutes a week, filing tax reports is easy, paying payroll taxes is easy, etc. If you really don't want to deal with these issues, you have the CHOICE to hire those skill, save money doing it and control the process. Make a list of things you think are difficult or time-consuming and I'll address them with realistic answers. I don't candy coat stuff for my clients nor would I for you...I hate surprises and I would feel horrible if someone went Indy and didn't make it because they got bad info. from me.
There will never be any agreement between indies and the wirehouse/regional guys about which is better. I think it's the grass is always greener arguement. I like working for Jones. I'd probably like being indy too. I tend to be pretty happy wherever I am. uwec makes good points. Not good enough to make me hang out my own shinge. You guys can stop trying to talk me into it.
Oh yeah, on the diversification trip issue. I hear that same arguement all the time from people who have left Jones. It's lame. No, you can't book those same trips for the amount of money you pay in taxes. Not even close.
My wife and I took the shopping trip to NY last Christmas. 4 nights at Le Parker Meridien at $450/night (I thought about extending so I looked up the price), breakfast and dinner allowances at I think $50 per meal Jones wasn't sponsoring. Jones had a welcome and farewell dinner. Tickets to see Chicago. $750 shopping allowance. And airfare to get there and back. They handed me an envelope with $950 bucks cash in it for the meals and shopping money. They booked the tickets to the show. They made the arrangements. I simply packed and left. I had to give up about 2 hours for a meeting where I learned nothing. I'm going to pay about $1500 for the taxes. If someone out there has a travel agent that can do it cheaper than that I'd like to hear from them.
I’m much less concerned about you than I am my wife. She’s the one that sees how much goes into my bank account every month.
My wife and I took the shopping trip to NY last Christmas. 4 nights at Le Parker Meridien at $450/night (I thought about extending so I looked up the price), breakfast and dinner allowances at I think $50 per meal Jones wasn't sponsoring. Jones had a welcome and farewell dinner. Tickets to see Chicago. $750 shopping allowance. And airfare to get there and back. They handed me an envelope with $950 bucks cash in it for the meals and shopping money. They booked the tickets to the show. They made the arrangements. I simply packed and left. I had to give up about 2 hours for a meeting where I learned nothing. I'm going to pay about $1500 for the taxes. If someone out there has a travel agent that can do it cheaper than that I'd like to hear from them.
I'm glad you had a nice time. For me it was never enjoyable to take the Jones trips. And it wasn't about whether I could get a cheaper deal through my travel agent. First of all, I can't think of very many places I would less like to vacation in than New York City. I hated the group things, group dinners, group evenings out, group tours. Felt like the South Park kids all joined at the hip. I don't want to hang out with a bunch of Jones guys, their boring wives and snotty children. (I know!!! not all wives are boring and not all children are snotty, but I want it to be MY choice on who I hang with on vacation)
I don't want to give up 2 seconds on vacation to go to a meeting, much less one where I learned nothing.
My idea of a great vacation is to pick where I want to go, for how long and decide if I want to do anything or nothing on my vacation. Another reason I don't care for cruise ships. Too structured and they are always trying to get you to play nice with the rest of the guests, pose for pictures and participate in events. MEH!!!
Trips are more about keeping the drones isolated from the unclean others...continuously(sp) bombarded with the Jones mantra. Why else would they have catagories you have to put your clients into...have preferreds pay for the majority of it...No free thinking...and the more spiffy thinks on his own the more the screws will tighten on him.
Sorry Babbling I usually agree with you but this time I must disagree on a couple of points--
1) My wife and I went to some very cool places on the Jones Trips--New Zealand, Tahiti, Germany, Italy, Monte Carlo, Paris, Brazil, Maui, Greece, Turkey, Japan etc...over the 8 years I was with them. Granted, we did not have any children at the time.
We figured out how to have our own vacation by using EDJ. We always booked our own trip, own timeline, own airline. We always made an appearance at the first night welcome cocktail party (free drinks) and then we never went to anything else that was group oriented. I didn't even attend the "mandatory" meeting most of the time. I got calls from the GP's some times and I just said I was worn out from the trip and I couldn't make it to the meeting.
The only thing I miss about being at Jones is the wonderful trips. I think that it might have been different had we had children. I can take my own trips now, and I do. They are not as luxiourious nor are they as far from home. Nor are they taxed! They are tax-deductible because I make sure I am meeting a client/prospect where I am going.
Anyway, the one thing Jones does right is the trips. The only thing they do wrong is hire Maritz to solicit the side trips. Maritz is a joke.
[quote=babbling looney]
My wife and I took the shopping trip to NY last Christmas. 4 nights at Le Parker Meridien at $450/night (I thought about extending so I looked up the price), breakfast and dinner allowances at I think $50 per meal Jones wasn't sponsoring. Jones had a welcome and farewell dinner. Tickets to see Chicago. $750 shopping allowance. And airfare to get there and back. They handed me an envelope with $950 bucks cash in it for the meals and shopping money. They booked the tickets to the show. They made the arrangements. I simply packed and left. I had to give up about 2 hours for a meeting where I learned nothing. I'm going to pay about $1500 for the taxes. If someone out there has a travel agent that can do it cheaper than that I'd like to hear from them.
I'm glad you had a nice time. For me it was never enjoyable to take the Jones trips. And it wasn't about whether I could get a cheaper deal through my travel agent. First of all, I can't think of very many places I would less like to vacation in than New York City. I hated the group things, group dinners, group evenings out, group tours. Felt like the South Park kids all joined at the hip. I don't want to hang out with a bunch of Jones guys, their boring wives and snotty children. (I know!!! not all wives are boring and not all children are snotty, but I want it to be MY choice on who I hang with on vacation)
I don't want to give up 2 seconds on vacation to go to a meeting, much less one where I learned nothing.
My idea of a great vacation is to pick where I want to go, for how long and decide if I want to do anything or nothing on my vacation. Another reason I don't care for cruise ships. Too structured and they are always trying to get you to play nice with the rest of the guests, pose for pictures and participate in events. MEH!!!
[/quote]
We didn't have to go to NY. We'd been there before very briefly and wanted to go back and see it at Christmas. We could have gone on any of 20 trips. I don't think anyone likes the meetings, but they're a necessary evil. I don't think anyone forces you to do the group events. The trip I was on before that most of the top producers who were there didn't even show up for the business meetings. I don't recall them getting fired.
For you BL maybe you take the cash and plan your own trip. Either way to get something like that for basically doing your job is a nice perk.
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
No, you can't book those same trips for the amount of money you pay in taxes. Not even close.
[/quote]
You can't buy the trips for the amount you pay in taxes but the trips are way overvalued making your tax bill higher. Jones gets much of those trips paid for by kickbacks so why should you pay taxes on full price. Anything not covered by kickbacks is paid for by you and the 60+% you pay Jones.
[quote=uwec86][quote=Spaceman Spiff]
No, you can't book those same trips for the amount of money you pay in taxes. Not even close.
[/quote]
Jones gets much of those trips paid for by kickbacks so why should you pay taxes on full price.
Federal Tax Law?
I haven't checked recently but a GP was on the board of directors of Maritz.........coincidence????
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
How about company stock or employer matching on a 401K? How about group health care benefits?
[/quote]
What? Company stock? EDJ is not a symbol. And the health insurance sucks and is expensive!
I'm pretty sure I met you at a regional meeting. You are Director of Stopping the Turnover or something like that. Get back to your cube.
Eddj…I resent your reference on the GP being part of Maritz. How outlandish a thought of perhaps another profit center. You must be a failed segment 1…Your probably the worst advisor on this earth and the mothership is better for you leaving!! You couldn’t hack the churning enviroment this promotes!!! Loser!!!
I agree with Spiffy…everyone on here…except me and SPiff…are losers who couldn’t hack the buy and hold and churn, buy and hold and churn, buy and hold and churn system. You all need to get back to servicing your clients the rightway and make your 90% ( how could anyone leave for 90% compared to the very generous 38%-expenses) and get off the green plagues back, you sob’s. I hope this helps me get back into the good graces of the wonderful churn shop in St Louieeeee…I miss seeing everyones trailing 4…I asked LPL if they could provide me the trailing 4 of all the reps locally…they hung up on me…now is that anyway to treat a jones wannabe…don’t they know who their talking to…