New Jones Minimum Production Levels Coming?
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[quote=navet]
I agree completely, Big C. The fact that the kool-ade drinkers won't critique their own company indicates how deeply imbedded Jones problems are. Senior management spelled out the big issues in the "brutal facts", yet the Umpa Lumpas still push their wheel barrows.
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I see you ignored my question in my last post. You're pretty quick to bash Jones, but do you really have any solutions to what you see are the glaring defects in their business plan? If you do, perhaps you should give Weddle a call and tell him how he should be running the firm.
Where do you think a lot of those brutal facts came from? Do you really think the GPs who haven't been in the field for years got together one day and decided to make a list of what they thought was wrong with the firm and pulled that list out of their ears? Those guys talk constantly to the top producers in the firm and get input from them. They listen to the RLs and hear what they have to say. They get suggbox wires daily with suggestions from vets and rookies alike. Sometimes they actually take action on what they hear. It's much quicker with Weddle than it was with Bachmann or Hill. Where's Morgan Stanley's list of brutal facts? Where's BAC/MER's list of problems? If I'm going to hitch my wagon to someone else's train, I want it to be a company that can at least admit it's faults. Jones has always been good, sometimes too good (full page ad in the WSJ good), at tooting their own horn. They're getting better at admitting their faults.
I didn't give you the solution to the brutal facts? So you admit that these great experienced, innovative leaders of ours don't have the answers? It's a typical kool-ade drinking copout to respond to critisism with a "then you solve it" answer. That's why Jones has little chance of overcoming the "brutal facts". Our great leaders are sitting on their rich asses hoping that someone can actually come up with an answer. They aren't likely to do it. I give them credit for asking the question. What is needed is some truly innovative thought. Not likely in that environment. I wish it were different.
Wow, I have been gone for awhile and I return and it's the same old thing. Spiff talking about Jones and not admitting the facts. I am thankful I saw the light two years ago and came to LPL. Spiff I wish you and your LP well.
spiff,
you speak as if the group of gps is a democratic society....are you for real?
Your firm "tooted their own horn" in the WSJ and what happened a few months later......ooopsie
It's my experience in many communications with Spiff, if you disagree with him, you are considered idiotic. He is the epitome of a footsoldier (my former surname). Takes orders well, repeats the same old controlled message if confronted by the enemy or perception of an enemy. Oh and derives pleasure in dialogue, lots of it.
hey spiffy,
If Weddle says so it must be true?
Last 3 paragraphs
http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2010/04/12/story3.html?b=1271044800%5E3167971
navet - You seem to be very good at telling us that Jones is doing it all wrong. You seem to be very lacking in your ability to do anything other than throw stones. So, I'll give you some of my thoughts to show you what I mean: Jones doesn't do a good enough job training us past our initial training program. Sure, learning how to doorknock and call on stocks and bonds is important, but so is learning more about investing, MPT, and portfolio construction. Most of what we learn is OTJ training. I think Jones could do very well by it's newer FAs if they would add a week long class specifically on portfolio construction and investing theory. Actually teach our new FAs why they shouldn't own all large cap value stocks and long term bonds. I think part of that class should be case study based. Give them a statement like they're going to get from a prospect and have them dissect it. Most of our new FAs haven't ever even seen a statement from places like Morgan or Merrill, much less know how to tear it apart and figure out what's going on inside it. It's like teaching the new class of doctors how to be nurse practicioners.
Beyond that, I think there should be ongoing training available for those who want it. Not the fluff CE stuff that we take every year, but intense, CFP like training. Web based learning is very convenient and should be relatively inexpensive to produce. Jones does a decent job teaching business management with Visions and BDW, but they suck at actually teaching us how to do what we do for a living.
OK, your turn.
foot - if you would come up with some new discussion points, I wouldn't have to continually say the same thing over and over again. You're a broken record. Evidently I'm the flip side of the same record. I called navet an idiot in this particular case because he was acting like one. He was factually wrong, but yet continued to argue his point about the trainers.
exej - I guess I should have used some sort of emoticon with my comment about the WSJ. I agree with you that the full page ad telling the world how great we are was the most stupid public relations move ever. It's no wonder the regulators came after us not long after it was printed.
What are you trying to get at with the last post? It's not a secret that Canada isn't profitable. Having a $1mil a month loss on the Canadian operation isn't really significant in the big picture. Do I wish it would go away? Yes. Do I think it will impact me materially enough to notice if it does? Nope.
Spiff, great reply, thanks. Too busy right this minute to answer in detail. But exactly what I was getting at. My other questions are about "efficient" prospecting practices. Later
How the hell are you guys still talking about this. The thread was about the new minimum production requirements which was addressed in less than 1 page of the thread. Give it a rest god these forums are retarded now
You guys spend all day beating a dead horse
Considering the lack of activity on this dead blog, I'm surprised anyone is complaining about a conversation people are having. If you don't like the discussion then move on. Spiff, as far as my facts being wrong, I'd say wrong compared to what? You were back in training 10 years ago. I've been there several times over the last two, and if you call the ATL's highly trained then you have never been around a great training department. Granted, this industry doesn't have great training, but that is no reason to accept status quo. Particularly, when by Jones own admission, retention and FA productivity is a problem. Yet, Weddle still buys into door to door selling even today, judging by his answer to that question in his e-mail column. If that's an example of Jones innovation, then the company is stagnant at best.
Retention has very little to do with the ATLs. They aren't trained to be great sales people. They are trained very well to deliver the content that has been designed for the new EDJ FAs. And unless the quality has gone down drastically since I left, they do that very well. I will say that there is only one person that I actually worked with that is still in my old department. Why he hasn't left to take over an office is beyond me. I know a couple others that are still there, but I never worked in the classroom with them, so I don't know how good they are.
I completely disagree with you on the doorknocking side. There are only a handful of ways that you can prospect - doorknocking, cold calling, seminars, networking, and mass mailing. None of them are perfect. Doorknocking is time consuming, but it's incredibly cheap marketing. Cold calling is tedious, can be expensive, and takes a lot of discipline to pull off well. Seminars and mass mailing are expensive and have a really low response rate. Networking, unless you already have a networking base built, isn't really feasible for most new FAs.
Interestingly enough, Jones doesn't discourage any of them. In fact, beyond the initial training, they don't really care how you prospect, just that you do enough of whatever you do to hit your production goals. I heard of one guy out east somewhere who stood outside his office during busy times of the day and just handed out fliers of some kind to people passing by. They were some kind of survey or response card, so he put a little drop by outside his office so people could drop them in there whenever they wanted. Wann Robinson, big FA in FL, spent a ton of money in his first couple of years taking attorneys and CPAs and other referral sources out to lunch everyday. I heard the number was something like $90K on credit cards. He also mass mailed something to pretty much everyone in the state at one time. Todd Osterhage, now a GP in HQ, did a ton of seminars. I've got lots of stories about how guys built their businesses.
Doorknocking works in my area. If it didn't work anywhere else, we'd be hearing about it. There is constantly a contingent of new FAs that says doorknocking is outdated. Well, when it stops working altogether everywhere, then maybe it's time will have passed. Or when all of the municipalities in the country pass a no soliciting rule we'll have to switch tactics. But for now, I agree with Weddle that doorknocking is the best way to introduce a new FA to a community and ask for business. The thing I like the most about doorknocking is that there aren't issues like caller ID or DNC lists when you're doorknocking. If someone has a doorbell, ring it. The writer's suggestion that new FAs failed because people were skeptical of someone doorknocking is just a copout. You can't tell me that if you knock on 5000 people you can't find a few hundred people who are willing to talk with you. Even if you only got 1 out of 10 that's still 500 prospects. Surely out of those you can find 100 or so to do some kind of business with. I just don't buy it that doorknocking doesn't work.
Isn't it a bit disingenuious to ask new FA's to doorknock to get the office ultimately and the reason the ATL's are there is because they want a leg up and start with an office and some clients. I know you still have to doorknock but you aren't doing it the old fashioned way, just another easier path.
Having said that, I know that the GP's ran the ATL's ragged and they deserved that office after going through that gauntlet (see Spiff I can appreciate what you did), but its not walking the talk.
[quote=squash2]
Hey spiff when does this new plan take effect?
[/quote]
If you are talking about the new production minimums, I don't know. That decision is above my pay grade. Lots of changes like that are announced at Summer Regional Meetings and then put into effect in the next few months. My RL hasn't mentioned anything about it specifically.
[quote=BigCheese]
Isn't it a bit disingenuious to ask new FA's to doorknock to get the office ultimately and the reason the ATL's are there is because they want a leg up and start with an office and some clients. I know you still have to doorknock but you aren't doing it the old fashioned way, just another easier path.
Having said that, I know that the GP's ran the ATL's ragged and they deserved that office after going through that gauntlet (see Spiff I can appreciate what you did), but its not walking the talk.
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Relatively few of the ATLs actually make the transition to the field. Very few of those take over choice offices that you would consider big. In my tenure there, I know of one guy who took over an office that was bigger than $20mil. And he didn't make it in that office and is now out of the business. Out of all of the others, probably 10 or so people, there were some that got $10-12million, but most of them were $5-10mil. Two or three are back in the home office after a couple years.
Most of them want to stay in the STL area, because that's where they live. $20+ millinon offices just don't pop up in the metro area. When they do, they're taken by folks already in the region, transfer brokers, new FAs without offices, and then maybe they'll look at a home office person.
Most of the ATLs that I worked with weren't there originally with the purpose of taking over an office eventually. I think they eventually transition to that thought process when they see some of the hiring choices STL makes and figure if HE can do it and make that kind of money, surely I can. That's the way it was with me. I took the ATL job because I liked the teaching part of the gig. That department looks good on your Jones resume and the GPs of that area have some pull in other parts of the firm. Most of my friends that I worked with are now either Seg 4 or 5 FAs around the country or department leaders or GPs elsewhere in the firm.
[quote=icebear48]
Legend ,
We believe the domestic client base, and the "profitable investment opportunity base" are also shrinking dramatically. In our opinion this will dramatically reduce incomes of so called traditional brokers. Personally I entered the business in 1973 and witnessed a flat equity market until August of 1982. At that time a big day was thirty million shares ( like Bunker Hunt day ). In those days few domestic households had a large Wall Street intrest, since then CNBC and the like have made a daily football game of the equity market. Those days are gone, consider the global indebtness and take a look at recent bond market activity.
Please call me if you wish to discuss this.
[/quote]
You have been in the bus. since 1973 ? What kind of loser are you still posting forums and not retired. Yeh Great Idea for all of us to take your advice. You need to retire and get a real life
I am running my own firm, and have no intention of retireing. Every so often I come on here looking for a good broker or two, which I then attempt to hire, unfortunately, you are not such an individual.