How's that Jones Bank and REIT portfolio
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[quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=noggin][quote=Spaceman Spiff][quote=noggin][quote=Spaceman Spiff]CJ - did you expect a different answer? You begged me for an answer, so don’t complain about what you get.
spears - Years in the home office. My office should, no will, be profitable enough by the next offering for my years in the field. [/quote] See that is why some of us who built our offices from scratch have less respect for a guy like you. Try building your office from scratch and qualifying for LP by actually producing revenue......[/quote] Sorry, noggin, but in this case you are wrong. The LP I got didn't have anything to do with my office. I left the home office a few months before the LP came out. I was fully expecting to get skipped on that offering because I left for the field and my office wasn't anywhere near profitable enough for LP. I was really suprised when they called and offered me a small chunk of LP because of the years I had spent in in the home office that would have otherwise been ignored. Had I thought about it a little bit longer, I should have waited until after the LP offering to go to the field. You can have a little less respect for me because you believe that taking over a small office is the same as winning the lottery if you feel like it. But don't get uptight about my LP offering. [/quote] I think you missed my point but here it is for a second time. I have built my office from scratch and should I have the necessary profit numbers I will have EARNED my LP offering. You, however, worked in the home office while providing NO revenue were granted LP. Getting the small office is really none of my concern as I have seen several come through my region and do the same thing. They move offices to gain assets when if they would just do what they hired in to do they could build their own offices. I wish you well but what I have seen in the past doesn't bode well for your future success.....[/quote] So, you are saying that the only LPs the firm has should be FAs? That the time I spent doing my job at the home office, because it didn't bring any revenue to the firm, shouldn't be rewarded with LP? Please tell me that's not really what you think. [/quote] If a BOA helps the FA produce revenue then they should be rewarded with LP. If you knew that by staying at the home office you were forgoing LP wouldn't you have moved the field earlier to prove your real worth? Just because you did your job in the home office you can't seriously think that you deserve LP???? There is a huge difference between being given LP as you were and having earned it by hitting the profit numbers....OK, fine. We'll take LP away from all those bond traders that put bonds in the inventory so YOU can make money for the firm. We'll take LP away from those people in New FA training that helped you get through the Series 7, train you, and help get YOU on your way to making money for the firm. We'll take LP away from the Compliance people who try to keep YOUR butt out of arbitration by looking over YOUR shoulder at what you do. We'll take it away from that person in Cash Disbursements who make sure the client who YOU sold that bond to actually gets the interest check. We'll take LP away from all those people in IT that have been working a lot more hours than you have to put the tools out there that YOU use everyday to make money for the firm. In fact, we'll even take LP away from the BOAs because at the end of the day we all know they don't really bring in any revenue. They just answer the phone for YOU, do YOUR paperwork so YOU can make more money for the firm, make sure YOU get to YOUR meetings prepared and on time, and let YOU make money for the firm.
There is a huge difference in being given LP like I was and having hit the profit numbers. That's why if you ever become profitable enough and manage to get some LP your offering will be much larger than the average home office employee. It's the classic risk/reward payoff. You have no idea how hard some of those people in the home office work to give you the ability to do what you do. Think about it the next time you get out of bed. The beauty of Jones is that all you really have to do is show up everyday and make your contacts. Everything else is taken care of for you. You don't have to monkey around with your lease, phones, computer, lights, parking lot, salaries, benefits, compliance, etc. You turn the key (to a building that someone else set up for you from carpet to desk), sit down (in a chair someone at the home office ordered for you) and dial the phone (that somebody else put there for you) and make money. You need to understand the firm you work for. It's obvious from your comments that you don't. I have a perspective from both sides. I do understand the firm I work for. One last thought. There is a way you can have what you mentioned. Where nobody but the producer gets the rewards. It's called INDEPENDANT. Knock yourself out.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
OK, fine. We'll take LP away from all those bond traders that put bonds in the inventory so YOU can make money for the firm. We'll take LP away from those people in New FA training that helped you get through the Series 7, train you, and help get YOU on your way to making money for the firm. We'll take LP away from the Compliance people who try to keep YOUR butt out of arbitration by looking over YOUR shoulder at what you do. We'll take it away from that person in Cash Disbursements who make sure the client who YOU sold that bond to actually gets the interest check. We'll take LP away from all those people in IT that have been working a lot more hours than you have to put the tools out there that YOU use everyday to make money for the firm. In fact, we'll even take LP away from the BOAs because at the end of the day we all know they don't really bring in any revenue. They just answer the phone for YOU, do YOUR paperwork so YOU can make more money for the firm, make sure YOU get to YOUR meetings prepared and on time, and let YOU make money for the firm.
There is a huge difference in being given LP like I was and having hit the profit numbers. That's why if you ever become profitable enough and manage to get some LP your offering will be much larger than the average home office employee. It's the classic risk/reward payoff. You have no idea how hard some of those people in the home office work to give you the ability to do what you do. Think about it the next time you get out of bed. The beauty of Jones is that all you really have to do is show up everyday and make your contacts. Everything else is taken care of for you. You don't have to monkey around with your lease, phones, computer, lights, parking lot, salaries, benefits, compliance, etc. You turn the key (to a building that someone else set up for you from carpet to desk), sit down (in a chair someone at the home office ordered for you) and dial the phone (that somebody else put there for you) and make money. You need to understand the firm you work for. It's obvious from your comments that you don't. I have a perspective from both sides. I do understand the firm I work for. One last thought. There is a way you can have what you mentioned. Where nobody but the producer gets the rewards. It's called INDEPENDANT. Knock yourself out. [/quote] It's pretty obvious that you didn't read between the lines on my post. I will have to say that you are extremely biased on the home office side. I , on the other hand, after being on the other end of the phone call where the home office has been less than helpful to me many times am probably just as biased on the other side. This comment of yours about the IT folks working harder than I have just shows me how little perspective you have on the reps side of the business. If you were a scratch starter you wouldn't make such foolish statements. BTW, every hour that a person works in the home office they get paid for. I don't. I am paid only by the revenue I bring to the firm. BTW, I have served in leadership in my region for quite some time...... I think I understand my firm. We'll just agree to disagree.Spaceman Spiff,
Unfortunately your old department in Deperate, Missouri created noggin. to sanctimonious please add arrogantSpiff,
Since you understand the firm, maybe you could give me their logic on LP offerings like the following: An on-call who previously worked at two different offices(3 0r 4 years ago) full time was made an offer during the last offering. She was asked to leave at least her first office, and I was told that the last guy she worked for was not happy with her performance. I don't know this for a fact, but bottom line she is an on-call. Two other BOA's that were marginal at best were offered Lp. One of them worked for me until she finally was offered another office(it is very difficult to fire BOA's), and the other one worked for a friend of mine who was trying to build the documentation required to fire her. He was not offered Lp but she was, and he is still with the firm and doing very well. I just can't see any logic here because very little contribution to the firm or IR seem to be required. It almost looked as if a quota of certain classes of people had to be met.ednomore,
1.) What does she look like? 2.) Who is she related to? 3.) What does she have on someone? Finally remember that Desperate, MS always believes a BOA over a lowly IR.....alwaysCompliancejerk,
You are correct about believing a BOA over an IR. I know from experience. To answer all of your other questions, Looks were average or below on all three BOA's and no relation or knowledge on anyone. It was a very strange thing! The BOA thing got out of hand in many ways the last couple of years. Even their evaluation was skewed such that it is impossible to rate them low enough to be unacceptable without basically saying they can't do anything. When they came out with the new online system, I played around with it to find out different results,and you really to have to answer around 90% of the duties performed as unacceptable to give an unacceptable rating overall, and everybody has some ability. The system forces some untruthful answers or give an acceptable review. I am just glad I don't have to deal with it, but it is sad they they took total control of the BOA while saying that you run your own business.Interesting how far off topic a post can go. I finally got some time to look at the model stock portfolio that was posted awhile back. It was date 12/14 with the performance comparisons as of June. As far as I can see, the vast majority of the portfolio is at or near a 52 week low (with a few exceptions). I fail to understand how this helps your case regarding quality research. I know you still had a buy on DRE in the 40’s, and on C, and on BAC as recently as March of 2007. Did they ever even get moved to a hold? I know you guys must cover more than 50 stocks, how have those turned out for you? Most of those stocks were still holding up ok in June and just starting to show weakness. Did you seriously advise your clients to hold stocks like ZMH as it lost a quarter of it’s value or did you tell them the $80 dollar range was a good buying opportunity? What about the any of the others? Where is the updated performance numbers as of December?
Ok, I am done with my rant but please don’t tell me about quality Jones research without a little more to go on then a spreadsheet of of stocks (without percentage allocations I might add) that represent a losing portfolio if purchased on an equal allocation model. It just doesn’t prove your point…
There are some of the MP stocks that are close to 52 week lows, but they are the minority. BAC is still a Model Portfolio Stock and S&P still has it rated 5 stars. C got moved to a Hold. ZMH, which I don't personally follow, is a MP stock. S&P still has it as a 4 star stock, with a target of $77. When I look at stocks, I like to look at both Jones and S&P. Jones has a bias toward long term holding, while S&P likes to look at the next 12 months. I'm not an analyst, so I figure if S&P likes them short term and Jones likes them long term, it should work out in the end for the client.
Performance numbers for the MP (taken from the January IP, which uses 11/30 numbers) are as follows: 1 yr - 6.7% 3 yr - 8.8% 5 yr - 10.7% 10 yr - 6.8% I'm not sure how they track that, since there are periodic changes to the MP. I don't think Jones' research is the best out there, but I also don't believe they are the worst. They primarily follow large value and are starting to sprinkle in some mid cap. It's pretty boring, but so are the majority of our clients. Little old ladies like dividends.[quote=ednomore]Spiff,
Since you understand the firm, maybe you could give me their logic on LP offerings like the following: An on-call who previously worked at two different offices(3 0r 4 years ago) full time was made an offer during the last offering. She was asked to leave at least her first office, and I was told that the last guy she worked for was not happy with her performance. I don't know this for a fact, but bottom line she is an on-call. Two other BOA's that were marginal at best were offered Lp. One of them worked for me until she finally was offered another office(it is very difficult to fire BOA's), and the other one worked for a friend of mine who was trying to build the documentation required to fire her. He was not offered Lp but she was, and he is still with the firm and doing very well. I just can't see any logic here because very little contribution to the firm or IR seem to be required. It almost looked as if a quota of certain classes of people had to be met.[/quote] I don't pretend to understand how all the decisions are made at home office. My point with Noggin was that he is discounting the work of a lot of valuable people who help his business run smoothly by thinking the way he does. This last LP offering was a strange one and it may explain those BOA's getting LP. This is just a guess. This last LP offering in 2006 included everyone who was offered the LP in 2003 that didn't really get finalized. So, if in 2002 she was working for an IR who was profitable enough to get an LP offering, they probably gave her some also. Even though she was working as an on call in 2006, she would have been eligible from the last offering. I would guess she didn't get any additional LP, above what she was offered back in 2003. As an on call, I don't think she is eligible for it in the future. Again, just a guess.Anyone know how that Jones Portfolio is doing as of last quarter? Seems like every other firm publishes the data, or it can be easily obtained. Even the other firms that are getting smoked come out and show the numbers.
Guess I don’t see your point. Not a Jones IR here, but plenty of stocks on the Jones MP I would still be holding, even if bought a year ago. Look at upgrades/downgrades across the board in our industry. They are always a day late and dollar short. Remind me again what rating AMBAC and MBIA carry?
I guess I just feel you are picking a pretty easy time to point fingers.Actually it just annoys me that the data isn’t available. I can pull every other major firm’s numbers without any particular difficulty. Most publish the good and the bad. I can’t seem to get the Jones numbers at all. I admit there is a chip on my shoulder do to numerous arguments with my old firms research department, but it’s mostly a true desire to see the numbers.
Actually…I’ve been picking on them for a long time so I don’t feel particularly like an opportunist…
This is not a defense, but you know very well that Jones is not focused on short term results. That is primarily why they don’t publish monthly/quarterly results of their MSP. Not that their results are stellar, but they also don’t try to hang their hat on their stock picking ability, like many of the wirehouses and investment banks. Good, bad or indifferent, picking individual stocks is just not a big focus at Jones. Although, I would argue that they are no better or worse than any other firm over the long term. I would guess we are somewhere right in the middle.
Okay, Okay everyone here we go. One of my old Jones buddies read me a GREAT quote from Weddle's corner a few weeks back. I have to paraphrase cause I don't remember exactly. Space or 24 can we get some help here?
A current broker wrote in asking why our stock picks (Jones') were on the bottom of the list for the 1 3 and 5 year periods in a recent report on firms analysts. Weddle's reply? Well I would be worried if we were on the top of the list for those because it would mean we were focusing on short term results.So when I was at Jones several years ago, the Model Portfolio was at or top of the performance list. I don't recall any communications about the short term focus generating the results.
Just another example of the Jones culture.Maybe somebody can help me out here by posting a few sources…I don’t pretend to know the inside scoop on any firm because I just started as a FA, but when I did some research this is what I found : TOP 13 ranked firms for the second half of 2007
Feb 22, 2008 - Top of the list Bear Stearns
#6 = EDJ , outperforming the S&P
EDJ is pretty much in the middle.
The only other list of model portfolios I found were in 2001 and EDJ still outperformed the S&P there.
I looked back through this thread but couldn’t find any links posted that support the argument that EDJ picks terrible stocks…Could somebody please post up a link so I can find out if there is a valid point or not.