Fee vs Transaction Based
237 RepliesJump to last post
LOL...what else are the voices telling you, Mike?
Listen, when you finish your training, get a rep ID and are allowed to talk with clients, feel free to have an opinion.
Philo,
F this guy. Let's not even communicate with him. He's your typical big mouthed loser who fails at every firm he goes to, losing a big chunk of his book (pamphlet) every time he moves. Everywhere he goes, there he is. Every firm he couldn't handle had one thing in common - him. He gets his self-worth from his superiority complex and we get ours from how many people we help and how much money we make. You and I own our own businesses and he can't even handle holding a job. That pretty much says it all.
[quote=Philo Kvetch]
LOL...what else are the voices telling you, Mike?
Listen, when you finish your training, get a rep ID and are allowed to talk with clients, feel free to have an opinion.
[/quote]
Well, thanks Philo. I sure do look forward to havin' one of them "rep ID" thingies.
[quote=Dirk Diggler]
Philo,
F this guy. Let's not even communicate with him. He's your typical big mouthed loser who fails at every firm he goes to, losing a big chunk of his book (pamphlet) every time he moves. Everywhere he goes, there he is. Every firm he couldn't handle had one thing in common - him. He gets his self-worth from his superiority complex and we get ours from how many people we help and how much money we make. You and I own our own businesses and he can't even handle holding a job. That pretty much says it all.
[/quote]
whhhhaaaa, I'm just crushed, skirt-boy doesn't like meeeeeee!!!!
You know, you wouldn't have to hide and lie if you simply told the truth.
[quote=dude]
If you've ever had your head shaved, it's kinda like rubbing the stubbies (not THE stubby ) on your head. Feels really nice.
[/quote]
I have, a time or two, as a condition of employment. I have to say, I never found it enjoyable. Perhaps it wasn't just the bad haircut that sucked the fun out of the experience
[quote=dude]You've rubbed your stubby as a condition of employment?[/quote]
LOL, er, uh, that's not what I meant....
[quote=dude]You've rubbed your stubby as a condition of employment?[/quote]
That explains a lot.
[/quote]
The annuity and subaccounts are posted all over the place on this board. Look them up.
[/quote]
This isn't my battle (but I'm enjoying it!), but, Dirk, that's sounds like you're dodging the question. Why not just tell us the annuity & sub-accounts you use?
[/quote]
Why the F should I? The information is here, already, and I don't care what anyone thinks about what I do. Think about it...do I really care what some jobhopper at morgan stanley thinks about what I sell, especially, given the fact that it's not even sold in the wirehouse channel? I don't blame him for not liking annuities, per se. He's at morgan frickin' stanley, for pete's sake. MS haircuts them down to about 4%, before giving him a crappy payout. I wouldn't tie up MY assets for 7 years, either, for that kind of compensation! Anyone with business sense can do the math on that. You have to pay me a lot of money to place assets somewhere else, where I can't generate revenues off of them. The poor guy, at most, gets paid 2 points on the whole deal. I'm sure he'll be changing jobs soon. Maybe, he should go somewhere where he can thrive and actually help people.
[/quote]
Why, Dirk? Because a couple people questioned your posts about the performance you touted, and you won't or can't present the facts to substantiate it. People that are telling the truth are more than willing to back it up. You haven't, so absent anything to the contrary it's only fair to assume you can't.
Again, this is not my battle, but your lack of ability or willingness to defend your position, plus your off-the-handle and off subject ranting & raving diatribe above says a lot. To the extent any of us thought you had credibility... well, it's pretty far gone absent any direct response to the question. That's why.
Oh, and your point about tying up assets for 7 years -- VAs, properly selected and properly sold, are tied up much longer than that. That is, of course, unless someone's routinely flipping 1035s for commissions whenever the surrender period is over. But, that would be just those commission whores in our business, not reps like you that are always concerned with their clients' best interests --right? (he said dripping with sarcasm)
[quote=babbling looney]
Let's see....you don't understand a concept as fundamental as compounding, you can't handle simple arithmatic, and you think people use annuities for wealth transfer.
I understand compounding. What you don't understand is first of all how to spell arithmetic and simple examples that use rounded or approximate numbers. You also don't have much reading comprehension since I never said that people should use annuities for wealth transfer. People (your clients I presume) think that annuities are good for wealth transfer because they hear the "will avoid probate" mantra and are not informed about step up rules. You also don't seem to understand that taxes and their effect on the entire picture, now and in the future are also a part of financial planning. Current tax deferral is nice. Compounding is wonderful, which is why i always recommend reinvesting stock and other dividends. If the client does plan to spread the tax hit on an annuity withdrawal over years that works too.
I can't begin to tell you how many people have trusts that they got from an insurance hack running a trust mill just so the agent really can sell annuities. The client who's intention was to pass money to their heirs, come to me with a portfolio full of annuities and other investments too. Usually by this time, they realize that they didn't hear the entire story. They never planned to use the income or needed the income, and the annuities have appreciated substantially. This is good, making money is nice, but now they realize that if they did want to gift money to their family or fund their grandchild's education using that annuity, they are looking at paying higher current taxes and when they leave the asset to whomever, that person is also looking at a tax hit too. Nothing like leaving someone a big fat liability as a parting gift.
Oh, yeah... I do know insurance is the preferred method of wealth transfer. (I have been licensed at least half as long as you have been alive or longer if you are not at least 38 yrs old.) Why didn't the original advisor ask what the client's intentions were in the first place and set up an ILIT or buy insurance. Because it is much easier to slam someone into an annuity and move on. By the time the client's have figured it out, they are unable to get insurance due to health or it is too expensive
This started out as a discussion about FEE BASED VS TRANSACTION BASED business which could have been interesting and informative But like everything else on this board it devolves into a discussion either about EDJ= evil or Annuities=the holy grail or Annuities = evil. None of those things is true. Trying to compare annuities to fee based business is not valid.
My main gripe with you, Dirk and others who seem to be flogging annuities because they are high commission products is that I get the feeling that you guys are less than forthcoming with your clients.
This wham bam thank-you ma'am method is about as appealing in the dating scene as it is in the financial advisory business. But then again, if all you are looking for is a one night stand.... I guess it works...for you.
[/quote]
You are correct, BL. I did misspell the word 'arithmetic'.
Other than that, your post does nothing but demonstrate your status as a neophyte in the money business....drivel at it's finest. You are clueless on the subject of current vs future taxation. You, in fact, were the one that brought up the concept of wealth transfer through annuities...no one else. Since protecting gains from taxation now as a means of generating higher returns is an alien concept (clearly due to the fact that you can't add), you dismiss the notion as nonsense, without any means of refuting the facts. Further, your simplistic idea of financial planning comes complete with the idea that an annuity can only exist in a vacuum, without any other investments in a portfolio.
If nothing else, you're a good example of a bad example.
Keep up the bad work!
Philo,
When I told you about the annuity, did you criticize it or did you do your homework and sell the crap out of it? Did your income take a big jump? It has been an absolute career maker for me. It freaks me out at how much my income has jumped since I decided to focus on annuities, instead of trying to be a jack of all trades.
The "yeah, but what about...?" people are doomed to get nothing accomplished. Just like the democrats. They love to criticize, but have nothing better to offer. This broad is an idiot, plain and simple. F her. We've got nothing to prove to some woman trying to live in a man's world.
[quote=babbling looney]
You really are a defective tool aren't you.
[/quote]
I have no doubt that you've seen a lot of tools. If you had as many sticking out of you as you've had sticking in you, you'd look like a porcupine!
[quote=babbling looney]Meant to address that one to philo something. Not you Dirk...this time [/quote]
Noted. I meant to address my recent post to Linda Lovelace, not you.
I think it's safe to say that Dirk is worried about one thing... YTB (yield to broker). Your so called guarantees aren't worth anything if the contract drops before the 10 year hold is up.
It's all smoke an mirrors. I had a guy come in today with an 800k AXA annuity inside an IRA. He didn't even know it was an annuity, he thought it was mutual funds.
Keep being a salesman. The rest of us will continue giving objective advice.
[quote=babbling looney]
You really are a defective tool aren't you.
[/quote]
Maybe. But that doesn't change the fact that you don't know what you're talking about.
[quote=iconsult100]
I think it's safe to say that Dirk is worried about one thing... YTB (yield to broker). Your so called guarantees aren't worth anything if the contract drops before the 10 year hold is up.
I'm in business to make money. Isn't that the point?
It's all smoke an mirrors. I had a guy come in today with an 800k AXA annuity inside an IRA. He didn't even know it was an annuity, he thought it was mutual funds.
You're just pissed that you can't get your hands on that $800m. Too bad.
Keep being a salesman. The rest of us will continue giving objective advice.
Ok. Mr. Client, would you rather work with someone who has to use a sales pitch that he's objective or would you rather make money?
[/quote]
[quote=Dirk Diggler][quote=iconsult100]
I think it's safe to say that Dirk is worried about one thing... YTB (yield to broker). Your so called guarantees aren't worth anything if the contract drops before the 10 year hold is up.
I'm in business to make money. Isn't that the point?
It's all smoke an mirrors. I had a guy come in today with an 800k AXA annuity inside an IRA. He didn't even know it was an annuity, he thought it was mutual funds.
You're just pissed that you can't get your hands on that $800m. Too bad.
Keep being a salesman. The rest of us will continue giving objective advice.
Ok. Mr. Client, would you rather work with someone who has to use a sales pitch that he's objective or would you rather make money?
[/quote]
[/quote]
Sorry to dissappoint you, but the dude is 45 (36 when he bought it) and it's out of surrender. It's nice to have a tax deferred investment inside a tax deferred investment huh. That money will be with money managers in about 10 days.