Edward Jones/MFS
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[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
In reality, A shares are the most cost effective investing solution if you are going to work with an advisor sold active money manager. Use the right company and they can be even less expensive than most no-load funds. You can put $100K into AIVSX for the next 40 years, pay $3500 upfront and .57% a year. That's pretty cheap.
Advisory was about 5 years after the revenue sharing lawsuit. I don't know that I'd specifically connect the two. [/quote] I think there is a direct correlation between Advisory, revenue sharing, industry trend (towards advisory models), as well as legislative conditions (whatever the he!! they come up with to do away with 12b-1's, and eventually revenue sharing). But they did not do it in a bubble. I truly believe that as part of their 5-Year Plan, this was one of the big items. They had become (always were, I guess) a one-trick pony.Spiff-
At least B24 can see the change for what it was. Maybe its time you stop typing and read before you hit the send button. You just sound so ridiculous when you drink that green stuff. This was extracted from the 10K- MUTUAL FUNDS AND ANNUITIESThere are regulatory proposals being considered that could significantly impact the related disclosure and potentially the amount of compensation that broker-dealers derive from mutual funds and annuity products. The Partnership believes it is likely in the future that broker-dealers will be required to provide more disclosure to their customers with respect to payments received by them from the sales of these products. It is also possible that such payments may be restricted by law or regulation. For additional discussion of mutual fund regulatory initiatives, refer to "Item 1A - Risk Factors, Regulatory Initiatives" in the Partnership's Annual Report on Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended December 31, 2008. The Partnership derived 56% of its total revenue from sales and services related to mutual fund and annuity products in the first nine months of 2009 and 64% in the first nine months of 2008. The Partnership derived approximately 34% of its total revenue for the first nine months of 2009 and 35% of its total revenue for the first nine months of 2008 from one mutual fund vendor. Significant reductions in the revenues from these mutual fund sources could have a material impact on the Partnership's results of operations. Your tagline talks about intelligent life... Weddle did the right thing, because he knew that change was imminent and if you read the 10K , they talk about risks to the partnership and that's one of many.
I’m curious. If a segment 5 has $50,000,000 in A-share mutual funds, he makes about $50,000 per year in trails(10 basis points). How does he survive on that payout? Where do the big bucks come from?
[quote=Spaceman Spiff]
In reality, A shares are the most cost effective investing solution if you are going to work with an advisor sold active money manager. Use the right company and they can be even less expensive than most no-load funds. You can put $100K into AIVSX for the next 40 years, pay $3500 upfront and .57% a year. That's pretty cheap.
Advisory was about 5 years after the revenue sharing lawsuit. I don't know that I'd specifically connect the two. [/quote] But you still would own AIVSX.... I ran AIVSX against NYVTX since incept 2/17/1969. AIVSX 553,531 NYVTX 939, 228 Yes, AIVSX is pretty cheap....Indy.I’m curious. If a segment 5 has $50,000,000 in A-share mutual funds, he makes about $50,000 per year in trails(10 basis points). How does he survive on that payout? Where do the big bucks come from?
Another fund family.I’m curious. If a segment 5 has $50,000,000 in A-share mutual funds, he makes about $50,000 per year in trails(10 basis points). How does he survive on that payout? Where do the big bucks come from?
[quote=BigCheese]Seems to me this is just another example of the hyperbole that Jones management (culture) spews. Tell them that A shares are the only way, the least costly for the client if they hold them forever and act as if your firm is the only one who is looking out for the client.
[/quote] http://www.cnbc.com/id/32086978/site/14081545[quote=Ronnie Dobbs][quote=BigCheese]Seems to me this is just another example of the hyperbole that Jones management (culture) spews. Tell them that A shares are the only way, the least costly for the client if they hold them forever and act as if your firm is the only one who is looking out for the client.
[/quote] http://www.cnbc.com/id/32086978/site/14081545 [/quote] http://www.thestreet.com/p/rmoney/jamesjcramer/10200162.html NextIf he's a Seg 5 and he only has $50MM in mutual funds, that would be a relatively newer FA. But to complete your scenario, he also has $35-40MM in individual bonds ... which are reinvesting into mutual funds at a rate of $2MM per year. Let's say that's worth another $40000. The bonds come due on a regular basis; he may easily have 30% of that above total coming due in the next five years. That's $3MM per year coming due; $60,000 in commissions. Of course, during that call about reinvesting the bonds perhaps an insurance conversation creaps in, possibly about using the income stream to buy LTCi ... but let's leave that out. Before you woke up and turned on your PC to sling shots at a producing rep, he sold $150-180K. On top of the recurring revenue, he only needs to sell $25000 a month, and he's bumping along at a half mil and maintaining his 5 status. Most of the 5s I know have books north of $100M, and those numbers jump pretty quick when you have bond inventories of $50MM.I’m curious. If a segment 5 has $50,000,000 in A-share mutual funds, he makes about $50,000 per year in trails(10 basis points). How does he survive on that payout? Where do the big bucks come from?
[quote=Mr.Blonde][quote=Ronnie Dobbs][quote=BigCheese]Seems to me this is just another example of the hyperbole that Jones management (culture) spews. Tell them that A shares are the only way, the least costly for the client if they hold them forever and act as if your firm is the only one who is looking out for the client.
[/quote] http://www.cnbc.com/id/32086978/site/14081545 [/quote] http://www.thestreet.com/p/rmoney/jamesjcramer/10200162.html Next [/quote] Did you take a look at that date douchehead.......2004....Oh and by the way...Your firm does it too....[quote=Ronnie Dobbs][quote=Mr.Blonde][quote=Ronnie Dobbs][quote=BigCheese]Seems to me this is just another example of the hyperbole that Jones management (culture) spews. Tell them that A shares are the only way, the least costly for the client if they hold them forever and act as if your firm is the only one who is looking out for the client.
[/quote] http://www.cnbc.com/id/32086978/site/14081545 [/quote] http://www.thestreet.com/p/rmoney/jamesjcramer/10200162.html Next [/quote] did you take a look at that date douchehead.......2004....[/quote] I don't know what's worse, the date or the fact you're referencing Jim Cramer. Douchebag.[quote=Mr.Blonde][quote=Ronnie Dobbs][quote=Mr.Blonde][quote=Ronnie Dobbs][quote=BigCheese]Seems to me this is just another example of the hyperbole that Jones management (culture) spews. Tell them that A shares are the only way, the least costly for the client if they hold them forever and act as if your firm is the only one who is looking out for the client.
[/quote] http://www.cnbc.com/id/32086978/site/14081545 [/quote] http://www.thestreet.com/p/rmoney/jamesjcramer/10200162.html Next [/quote] did you take a look at that date douchehead.......2004....[/quote] I don't know what's worse, the date or the fact you're referencing Jim Cramer. Douchebag.[/quote] It was a joke asshole. You still lying to prospects?Noggin - and you would have turned your $100K into $6.7mil at an annualized return of 10.94%. Not a bad deal for $3500 upfront and .57% along the way. Did you know that ICA gets a 5 rating from Lipper and a 4 star rating from Morningstar?
foot - You took a two sentence statement, short ones at that, as me drinking kool aid? Seriously? You actually took the time to search the SEC filings for the Jones Financial Companies 10-K? That's pretty sad. Maybe you have it bookmarked. The 10-k talks about dozens of risks to the firm's business model. Everything from a material downturn in the financial markets to having to rely on third party vendors for many different things. I don't expect the GPs to work in a bubble. I expect them to look for solutions that would benefit the clients, FAs, and the firm. The 5 year plan that B24 mentioned earlier states that fee based relationships and the planning that goes along with them are one of the core strategies for reaching our 5 year goal. It also talks about diversifying our revenue mix. The two do go hand in hand. But, to say that AS is a knee jerk reaction to 12b-1 fee legislation and revenue sharing disclosure is just shortsighted. Oh yeah, and you should call it "OUR non-disclosed kickback scheme" because you participated in that scheme while you were here.You're really clueless about this business aren't you? First, it's 25bps for most funds. You don't get down to 10bps until you get into some muni funds at specific shops. So, $50 mil creates $125K a year, not the $50K you mentioned. Before you start wondering about how a Seg 5 can survive, why don't you figure how how you get paid. You can find that info in the prospectus or on Joogle.I’m curious. If a segment 5 has $50,000,000 in A-share mutual funds, he makes about $50,000 per year in trails(10 basis points). How does he survive on that payout? Where do the big bucks come from?
In all fairness spiff I thing 52new was referring to net. In that case 40% (and thats being lenient) is 10bps to the seg 5s pocket.
So typical of Spiff isn’t it? I googled Jones Financial Companies and what do you know I found the 10K and went to the risks section, took maybe 3 minutes. Your statement that you don’t think advisory solutions was a result of the GP’s concern for risk to THEIR capital and their revenue is so off the mark its laughable. In your on-going effort to refute anything that makes sense which you interpret as negative, you continue to defend blindly. Even a brother, B24, disagreed with your statement.
As for your comment that I participated in these agreements when I was at Jones. You are dead on, and back then there wasn't any disclosure to us because the GP's weren't required to. They also participated in directed brokerage ( a banned practice) just like most other firms. The difference is that I chose NOT to participate and got out once I did know. Today LPL does receive revenue sharing, fully disclosed and not one penny goes in my pocket. Mindshare is no different that shelfspace and at Jones the final straw was the inclusion of Hartford funds that had no track record at all, their only reason for being part of the Jones preferred funds was because Jones owned an income stream for being a consultant to Hartford. The GP's conveniently forgot to tell us of that relationship until they were forced to by the SEC. So give kudos to Weddle for identlfying a major risk to your firm and embarking in an advisory solutions program. At least with that you have the beginnings of becoming conflict free and in today's environment less conflicts with more transparency is the montra.I’m curious. If a segment 5 has $50,000,000 in A-share mutual funds, he makes about $50,000 per year in trails(10 basis points). How does he survive on that payout? Where do the big bucks come from?
OK, here's the deal...though I wouldn't like doing business this way, many, many big producers still regularly open 10-20 new accounts per month. They are not sitting around switching out fund families and churning stocks. They are opening new accounts, they are taking in new assets from existing clients, they have some C shares, they manage some company retirement plans with new money coming in all the time, they now have some advisory accounts, they do life insurance, LTC, etc. It doesn't all revolve around churning assets. I find the asset churners are not the big producers, but the $250K producers that have been in the business 15 years and aren't really trying anymore. And those are the same guys that probably sit around bitching about not making more money and blaming it on Jones. The big producers are still going after assets, making money, and not bitching. They would be good producers anywhere.