EDJ - Got to ask
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Okay, so I am new to this forum and a lot of responses have slammed EDJ. Why do some people here hate Edward Jones so much? Is it because of their “door-to-door” approach? Fees? What is it that makes some members here knock them? (No, I dont work for EDJ either.)
It’s my observation that some advisors love them, and some hate them. There really isn’t much in the middle.
I know some of y’all will give stupid remarks, but try to keep them serious.
I’m sure this has been commented on before, because I know the question has been asked.
But I’ll answer it anyway, since it would be interesting to see if my answer has changed any.
People hate Edward Jones for several reasons.
1) It is easy to hate the guy on top (EDJ is after all #1 in client satisfaction, no matter what conspiracy theories I may have about how it is conducted; they are usually #1 on the broker report card and up there on the best places to work as well).
2) Their platform. Jones has a certain theory on how money should be managed and they stick to it. I think they are wrong in their approach and use outdated models.
3) Most of all, I think people who used to work at Jones (myself included) were sold a bill of goods they didn’t quite receive. There are those who weren’t of course, but I think they are actually in the minority.
4) Another reason is hypocrisy. Putting someone forward as the representative of how you should run your business or look up to simply because he inherited $30+ million in assets.
I’m sure there are other reasons, but those are some I can think of.
I didn't trust Jones management to live by their credo that the client came first. Actions speak louder than words and they never walked the talk.
For the record one can be opposed to a firm without hating it. I got out almost four years ago (after nine years with the firm) and am grateful I did. I think Jones is THE place to learn if you can make it in the biz, but after 3-5 years its time to look at options. It just took me longer to jump.From the other side of the coin…Jones is a quality company. The partnership structure meant that while our competitors are worrying about solvency and ownership, we can concentrate on FAs, financial health of the firm, and client satisfaction. We do have a specific way that we think money should be managed. It’s been basically the same philosophy for decades. There have been some tweaks here and there, but the basic idea is to buy good stuff and hold onto it. Nothing fancy.
Moraen has a point with the guy who inherited or took over a $30MM branch and immediately gets put up on the platform to tell others how they should run their branch. While those situations are relatively rare, they do exist. And nothing is more frustrating, especially to the guy who is struggling because he DIDN'T inherited Uncle Joe's office, to have to endure listening to one of those guys blather on about how they do this or that. But for every one of those there are ten guys who have either started from scratch (a rarity these days) or started with a small book that they had to grow. Most of the guys you run into here that are what I would call anti-Jones had a beef with the management. Witness the two above. They thought they were promised something that didn't get delivered. Only they know if that was reality or not. Me personally, I've never been promised anything by Jones that they didn't deliver on. Or they believe they know how to better run a company than John Bachmann, Doug Hill, Jim Weddle, et al. My guess is that they would have eventually gotten pissed of at any manager at any company who tried to tell them how to run their business. So, they go indy or RIA and take that off the table. For those, like me, who are willing to ignore the management stuff and know that eventually it will change again anyway, Jones is a great place to build your business and stay for a long time. While the payout may seem attractive at times at the indy firms, especially when you have a $10K net month and see your net/net/net paycheck, there are other benefits that guys like me find more attractive than the money. To each his own. Now, I will say that you're also going to find two groups of anti-Jones guys - group one (BigCheese is their role model) finds fault in basically everything that Jones does. The company can't do anything right. And anyone who continues to work there is a kool-aid sucking drone who isn't capable of any real thoughts beyond what Jones tells them to think. They spout the same anti-Jones rhetoric all the time. The others (guys like Moraen) will tell you Jones is a great place for this or that, a great place to start, don't generally have a true hatred for the company, but yet wouldn't ever consider working for them again and don't have a problem telling you that you should work for someone else. They simply wanted something different than what Jones had to offer and figured the best way to get it was to do it themselves. Kudos to them.[quote=Spaceman Spiff]From the other side of the coin…Jones is a quality company. The partnership structure meant that while our competitors are worrying about solvency and ownership, we can concentrate on FAs, financial health of the firm, and client satisfaction. We do have a specific way that we think money should be managed. It’s been basically the same philosophy for decades. There have been some tweaks here and there, but the basic idea is to buy good stuff and hold onto it. Nothing fancy.
Moraen has a point with the guy who inherited or took over a $30MM branch and immediately gets put up on the platform to tell others how they should run their branch. While those situations are relatively rare, they do exist. And nothing is more frustrating, especially to the guy who is struggling because he DIDN'T inherited Uncle Joe's office, to have to endure listening to one of those guys blather on about how they do this or that. But for every one of those there are ten guys who have either started from scratch (a rarity these days) or started with a small book that they had to grow. Most of the guys you run into here that are what I would call anti-Jones had a beef with the management. Witness the two above. They thought they were promised something that didn't get delivered. Only they know if that was reality or not. Me personally, I've never been promised anything by Jones that they didn't deliver on. Or they believe they know how to better run a company than John Bachmann, Doug Hill, Jim Weddle, et al. My guess is that they would have eventually gotten pissed of at any manager at any company who tried to tell them how to run their business. So, they go indy or RIA and take that off the table. For those, like me, who are willing to ignore the management stuff and know that eventually it will change again anyway, Jones is a great place to build your business and stay for a long time. While the payout may seem attractive at times at the indy firms, especially when you have a $10K net month and see your net/net/net paycheck, there are other benefits that guys like me find more attractive than the money. To each his own. Now, I will say that you're also going to find two groups of anti-Jones guys - group one (BigCheese is their role model) finds fault in basically everything that Jones does. The company can't do anything right. And anyone who continues to work there is a kool-aid sucking drone who isn't capable of any real thoughts beyond what Jones tells them to think. They spout the same anti-Jones rhetoric all the time. The others (guys like Moraen) will tell you Jones is a great place for this or that, a great place to start, don't generally have a true hatred for the company, but yet wouldn't ever consider working for them again and don't have a problem telling you that you should work for someone else. They simply wanted something different than what Jones had to offer and figured the best way to get it was to do it themselves. Kudos to them. [/quote]Nail-head.
While I would never work for Jones again, I would recommend them to people. In fact, a friend of mine wanted to come work with me, and has zero experience selling. I told him he should go work for Jones first, and that if my recommendation meant anything, then I would give one (I'm sure that it doesn't), but I have friends who still work there who can recommend them.
I see both points. I agree, Jones is a good company. Weddle has made some of the best (only) changes to the company in decades. You can’t change a company on a dime.
I think the partnership aspect is good for clients and good for the firm. I'm not enamoured with the LP opportunity, but I think investment firms, accounting firms, law firms, etc. should always be structured as partnerships. I think firms going public and the end of Taft-Hartley were two of the worst things that could have happened for our industry. Now the "partners" are sharing the profits with a million other "partners". That's the beauty of a partnership - you don't have to share the profits. I also think employee/management ownership helps in the long-run. Having said that, I disagree with some of the ways they manage the firm. My biggest three beefs: 1. More focus on FA headcount growth than anything. That's ALL we seem to hear about. I realize we need to grow. But funnelling more of those millions towards internal asset growth versus newbie headcount/training is just stupid. We have 10-15 year vets doing 225K gross year after year after year. Can't we find a way to "encourage" asset growth among our veterans? Not that I like grids and penalty boxes, but c'mon. At 225K gross, you are bringing nothing to the firm. Why hire 10 more guys, spend $1mm to train them for a year, only to see 2 or 3 succeed? 2. Improve the Goodknight/apprenticeship process. I think it would benefit EVERYONE involved (firm, FA, clients) if FA's were required to apprentice in an existing office for 3 years before getting their own office. I could list all the reasons, but bottom line, you don't need to build a new office, hire an assistant, and send a guy on his own doing only 80K gross. That just starts the revolving door at the new office. 3. I don't like the investment process. It's great for newbies with no clue. It's excellent in fact. But for more experienced FA's, there is very little lattitude with investments. Essentially, Advisory Solutions just gave clients another way to pay for the same basic investment philosophy. Don't get me wrong, AS is good as far as mutual fund wrap programs are concerned. It's far better than A-share, one-fund family approaches. But there should be far more flexibility. I don't care if you make the FA "graduate" into a more complex program (UMA-type program for example) through training, testing, etc. But you need to give FA's some more latitude.Edward Jones is a good company with quality people. I think they offer great value for the clients they serve and if I were to get hit by a truck today my wife knows that the first contact she needs to make is to a friend of mine with EJ. He is a CFP, runs a 100mil+ book, has a great heart for helping people, and is only 38 years old. That being said every company has clowns and I ran into plenty when I was at Jones. The hypocrisy Morean mentioned is a huge problem with Jones and you need to be VERY WELL educated on the industry before you make a decision on where to begin your career. You also have to be extremely honest with yourself and your personality to see where you will best fit. Jones, like all firms, will sell you on their opportunity. The best way to proceed, in my opinion, is to look at their earnings estimates for FA's during the hiring process. See what you believe you can make with them in the first 5 years. If you don't have a natural market or previous sales experience, cut that number in half.Okay, so I am new to this forum and a lot of responses have slammed EDJ. Why do some people here hate Edward Jones so much? Is it because of their “door-to-door” approach? Fees? What is it that makes some members here knock them? (No, I dont work for EDJ either.)
It’s my observation that some advisors love them, and some hate them. There really isn’t much in the middle.
I know some of y’all will give stupid remarks, but try to keep them serious.
Edward Jones is the BEST FIRM EVER!!!
Every other firm is full of crooks and a-holes!!!!!!!! American Funds is all you need, Tax Free Bonds were created by Jesus H. himself!!!!!! Knocking on doors is better than cold calling!!!!!!!!! St Louis is the best city EVER!!!!!!!!! The Rams will win the Super Bowl this year because they play in the Edward Jones dome!!!!!!I guess I would fall into quite another category. I didn’t really have a beef with management but I was rather disappointed with the company’s response to a major issue in my old region. They frankly didn’t display the qualities that they were never shy about talking about. That being said they are a good company to start for and as long as you understand the limitations that you will have there i.e…product…strategy. After being gone from the Ed Jones machine, there is a total emphasis on the FA headcount that used to drive me bonkers when I was there. That being said, there is so much to this industry that until you are immersed in the industry you cannot fathom all the implications of the firm you started with until you are there 3 years or more…It takes at least that long to be competent to help your clients rather tahn your wholesaler.
Was just at Spring regionals. Panel of FAs at the end telling us how to run our business. One of the guys works 30 hrs a week after getting 30million non compete. Biggest loser in our region…
They introduce him "____'s 4 month rolling average is 4 times what it was a year ago, WAY TO GO, How did you do it?"I can tell you how the moron did it, he went from new new making nothing to having a 30mill book, it is actually shameful that is four month is only 4 times what it was. That is my largest beef along with the unfair work performance expecatations. Meaning that guy who took over 30 million has the same expectations as someone who took over 3, Those expectations DIRECTLY effect your compensation on both a month to month and a bonus period basis. IF the guy with 3 million grosses 5K a month, he is not working were the guy with 30 million can gross 10K and still be put in front of the group like a stud when in fact they are the largest failures...... deep breathes... that is my problem with the firm.
[quote=RealWorld]Was just at Spring regionals. Panel of FAs at the end telling us how to run our business. One of the guys works 30 hrs a week after getting 30million non compete. Biggest loser in our region…
They introduce him "____'s 4 month rolling average is 4 times what it was a year ago, WAY TO GO, How did you do it?"I can tell you how the moron did it, he went from new new making nothing to having a 30mill book, it is actually shameful that is four month is only 4 times what it was. That is my largest beef along with the unfair work performance expecatations. Meaning that guy who took over 30 million has the same expectations as someone who took over 3, Those expectations DIRECTLY effect your compensation on both a month to month and a bonus period basis. IF the guy with 3 million grosses 5K a month, he is not working were the guy with 30 million can gross 10K and still be put in front of the group like a stud when in fact they are the largest failures...... deep breathes... that is my problem with the firm. [/quote] Really? That effects you how? If that is your biggest problem with the firm you must have only worked at Walmart before this. Shut up and produce.
[quote=hotair1][quote=RealWorld]Was just at Spring regionals. Panel of FAs at the end telling us how to run our business. One of the guys works 30 hrs a week after getting 30million non compete. Biggest loser in our region…
They introduce him "____'s 4 month rolling average is 4 times what it was a year ago, WAY TO GO, How did you do it?"I can tell you how the moron did it, he went from new new making nothing to having a 30mill book, it is actually shameful that is four month is only 4 times what it was. That is my largest beef along with the unfair work performance expecatations. Meaning that guy who took over 30 million has the same expectations as someone who took over 3, Those expectations DIRECTLY effect your compensation on both a month to month and a bonus period basis. IF the guy with 3 million grosses 5K a month, he is not working were the guy with 30 million can gross 10K and still be put in front of the group like a stud when in fact they are the largest failures...... deep breathes... that is my problem with the firm. [/quote] Really? That effects you how? If that is your biggest problem with the firm you must have only worked at Walmart before this. Shut up and produce.[/quote]
Morale. Not to mention, it doesn't help when people are genuinely looking for ideas.
I find the problem with these “newly minted rock stars” is that their ideas are so different than what other newbies need to hear. If I am out 2 years and have 75 housholds and 10mm AUM, I don’t need to be told how to manage and mine my book. I don’t have a book yet! If you are given 650 households, even if many are not that great, you probably don’t ever have to “prospect” again in the strictest sense. You are more focused on developing and mining your book, and culling referrals from them. You aren’t out knocking on doors and cold-calling.
This is exactly what happened in my region. RL's son got a $40mm Goodknight, and over 600 households. Dad never did insurance. First thing son does is start meeting with all 600 clients, doing insurance, pulling in new assets, etc. Mind you, I DO NOT have hard feelings about people inheriting books, especially family. I think that's how it should be. And I actually like the RL AND his son. They'er both good people, and modest as well. But he is the "Rock Star' of teh region now. Field Tainer, Mentor, Seg 3 leader, etc., etc. The fact is, ANY knucklehead could do what he has done. He has taken that 40mm book and is doing about 25-30K per month gross. Not bad. But that's about what you would expect for that size book now being worked aggressively.[quote=Moraen] [quote=hotair1][quote=RealWorld]Was just at Spring regionals. Panel of FAs at the end telling us how to run our business. One of the guys works 30 hrs a week after getting 30million non compete. Biggest loser in our region…
They introduce him "____'s 4 month rolling average is 4 times what it was a year ago, WAY TO GO, How did you do it?"I can tell you how the moron did it, he went from new new making nothing to having a 30mill book, it is actually shameful that is four month is only 4 times what it was. That is my largest beef along with the unfair work performance expecatations. Meaning that guy who took over 30 million has the same expectations as someone who took over 3, Those expectations DIRECTLY effect your compensation on both a month to month and a bonus period basis. IF the guy with 3 million grosses 5K a month, he is not working were the guy with 30 million can gross 10K and still be put in front of the group like a stud when in fact they are the largest failures...... deep breathes... that is my problem with the firm. [/quote] Really? That effects you how? If that is your biggest problem with the firm you must have only worked at Walmart before this. Shut up and produce.[/quote]
Morale. Not to mention, it doesn't help when people are genuinely looking for ideas.
[/quote] BINGO. I am there spending time with "Vets" at call sessions, New FA meetings, Regionals, etc. to get ideas and learn about the business I am new to. I don't want to sit there and waste MY time or entire weekends listening to the American Funds wholesaler and Johnny Thirtymil tell me what is working for him.
Ditto everything about those inheriting books and being help up as the next Troy Nelson. There are some quality people at Jones though and it is a fantastic place to start and learn the business. HR department for the industry.
spiff-
Since yoiu are so quick to categorize me as a hater of Jones. Let me set the record straight again. I did not trust management. I don't hate Jones. I liked the Fa's I worked with. I didn't get along with my RL because he was and is a pompous jerk. I left in good standing, in the green, segment 4 (they didn't have seg 5 then) very profitable. What Jones is looking for is rose colored glasses FA's and Spiff is the eptiome of that type of rep. Although he probably would serve the firm better in the communications department, he has readily admitted in the past his role here is to defend the firm...and judging from the number of repsonses he is doing an awesome job of that. He isn't remotely balanced and hasn't the tenure yet as an FA nor has he ever worked for any other firm. Spiff is exactly the type of rep Jones is looking for. One who doesn't offer management any problems and is an average producer and thinks that Jones is a fine firm. Before Spiff goes off and tells us how I couldn't possibly know about him (I am referencing the typical Jones FA). It's the same company line just a different day for him to respond.Hot Air?
I don't understand how it could be hard to realize how my situation would be frusterating. The most frusterating thing is really that one of the true benefits of Jones is to learn from the other people and get ideas. Why put people on a pedastool who have no ideas? That is called wasting my time and I can do that independently without paying 60% of my check. Right? Lastly, don't tell me to produce. I do. Very well actually, it is funny how careers go at Jones and sometimes I think that I am talking to vets on here and most are newbies. I have been out a while and with Jones since 2003. I imagine I produce more than you, but then again this is the internet so no need getting into a pissing match. I am just a little taken back by your incredibly ignorant and defensive stance to my post.—Dear Jones brokers that are upset about brokers inheriting assets and then giving speeches at regionals…grow a set. If it concerns you so much, why not call them out. I do it in the occational regional I go to (maybe that’s why half the region loves me and half hates me). But what difference does it make. I even had our Area leader giving a talk about how great the number one producer at Jones (based in North Dakota I think) got there in something like 5 years. I actually interupted him and asked how many assets he had inherited (knowing the answer), took the wind out of the area leader’s sail, but there’s always a story behind a fast starter like that (Inherited 150 million or so).
-There is a classification system that I use. Its called the SPOON scale. It comes from the common phrase, "born with a ______ spoon in his mouth." Less than 5 million doesn't make a grade. 5-10 million is considered a SILVER SPOON. 10-30 million is considered a GOLD SPOON. 30+ is generally a PLATINUM SPOON. If they ever get smart with you, ask them if the they would teach you to run a seminar titled, "How to inherit a large book" and that it would be very helpful for your business. -Anything under 30 million really doesn't make a difference over the long run anyway. Every broker that started in my region within 5 years that inherited reasonable assets I have more than doubled, and I wasn't handed a thing. Doorknocked for 2 1/2 years, coldcalled, did seminars, and prospected the hell out of people. So focus on what you can control, and that's hammering the doors or the phone. Once you crack around 50 million the business takes on a life of its own.By the way, there was a guy that inherited 70 million in my region around 10 years ago. It was a succession plan with another broker. He was getting a little c***y one day, so I let him know it would be just a matter of time before I passed him. Sure enough, around 5 years later, there I was, looking at him in my rear view mirror. He’s now around 50 million behind. Once again, control what you can control.