I like to know how much I pay for things.  Clients do too. 



The post is NOT about net performance, it is about how much a client is charged and how much the FA keeps.  Of course
there are many portfolio managers out there that have a ton of talent
in C share funds…and they have served their shareholders well. 
The SEC will one day decide to change the landscape and brokers with
giant books of C shares will find themselves fighting with clients
about, by all measures, a successfull portfolio of mutual funds. 
Why? 



I am telling you that if I get in front of your client and show them
they have been been paying 2.88% and they were told by you it was 1.83%
you will not be looked at in a positive light…despite the
performance.  Please trust me on this…I am not fighting but
rather offering assistance.   If it is not me, it will be the
fund company and the SEC.



If I am building a business I certainly would not choose to build it on
a soft sandy foundation that has a very high probability of
crumbling. 



To each their own though…I just offer the opinion.

[quote=GolFA]( And I keep a note Warren wrote to me on my office wall - guess somewhere in his heart he appreciates what we do for the common man.)[/quote]

It reads:  "Dear Janitor.  Next time please make sure you empty the trash can under my desk, but NOT the one labeled 'recycle'.  Oh and can you please leave more TP for the mens restroom?  Thanks.  WB"

[quote=AllREIT]

[quote=Broker24]The big concern is disclosure, not the

charging of

fees, per se. The fees will not go away. Commissions on

MFD’s have gone down so much over the years, before long there will BE

NO commissions. That just isn’t going to happen. You can’t

up-end an entire industry. That will screw the little investors

(who wants to pay wrap fees for their little $20K rollover??).

They will allow them, but will likely need to be disclosed on customer

statements as a fee of some sort (outside of the performance of the

fund).[/quote]



Yes you can upend an entire industry. Most likely we will see a cap on

12b-1 fee’s to 25bp, what would be very cool is a ban on revenue

sharing.



Of course that would kill the payout to EDJ GP’s by 70%.

[/quote]



That would kill the payout to every firm. All the major firms have revenue

sharing. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[quote=rightway]I like to know how much I pay for things.  Clients do too. 

The post is NOT about net performance, it is about how much a client is charged and how much the FA keeps.  Of course there are many portfolio managers out there that have a ton of talent in C share funds...and they have served their shareholders well.  The SEC will one day decide to change the landscape and brokers with giant books of C shares will find themselves fighting with clients about, by all measures, a successfull portfolio of mutual funds.  Why? 

I am telling you that if I get in front of your client and show them they have been been paying 2.88% and they were told by you it was 1.83% you will not be looked at in a positive light...despite the performance.  Please trust me on this...I am not fighting but rather offering assistance.   If it is not me, it will be the fund company and the SEC.

If I am building a business I certainly would not choose to build it on a soft sandy foundation that has a very high probability of crumbling. 

To each their own though...I just offer the opinion.
[/quote]

But your little trading fee rap is somewhat disingenuous, as my clients already know they are buying proprietary products, and are focused basically on meeting the indexes, and potentially beating them a little or protecting the downside through active management, combined with some passive stuff.

Look, I'm very tight with my clients, they get a ton of service which is very personal. They won't be sitting with you, and don't care about how you package your logic. I appreciate what you are saying, and always try to look forward for pitfalls, and have had the same thoughts and concerns, and can move on ideas as the situation dictates. The next competitive move would be RIA, got that one all figured out, but the cost/benefits of moving from b/d are  not as compelling now that I am ready to move.

All I'm saying is, EVERYONE in this industry has an agenda. Things like C shares are the result of a demand for choice, not an evil invention.

I used to be pretty up and at guys like Bobby and their annuity focus, but even that should be seen in perspective. If you had to be an excellent investment advisor and could only use annuities, you could do it, because you are trained in listening, identifying goals, creating cash reserves, thinking about tax strategies, retirement income, estate planning, insurance, ownership and beneficiaries, and so on. All of that is more important than the next do gooder stirring up the public about fees, which are already disclosed, and that do gooders agenda, which is likely profiting from financial planning or investment management in some fashion. The reason our profession is a diaspora is not because of products, rather,we dumb ourselves down with too much thinking and jousting of inflated egos.

[quote=Ferris Bueller]

[quote=GolFA]( And I keep a note Warren wrote to me on my office wall - guess somewhere in his heart he appreciates what we do for the common man.)[/quote]

It reads:  "Dear Janitor.  Next time please make sure you empty the trash can under my desk, but NOT the one labeled 'recycle'.  Oh and can you please leave more TP for the mens restroom?  Thanks.  WB"

[/quote]

I must really be missing the humor here. Help me out a little.

[quote=GolFA][quote=Ferris Bueller]

[quote=GolFA]( And I keep a note Warren wrote to me on my office wall - guess somewhere in his heart he appreciates what we do for the common man.)[/quote]

It reads:  "Dear Janitor.  Next time please make sure you empty the trash can under my desk, but NOT the one labeled 'recycle'.  Oh and can you please leave more TP for the mens restroom?  Thanks.  WB"

[/quote]

I must really be missing the humor here. Help me out a little.

[/quote]

Nevermind.  You're beyond help.

[quote=Ferris Bueller]

[quote=GolFA]( And I keep a note Warren wrote to me on my office wall - guess somewhere in his heart he appreciates what we do for the common man.)[/quote]

It reads:  "Dear Janitor.  Next time please make sure you empty the trash can under my desk, but NOT the one labeled 'recycle'.  Oh and can you please leave more TP for the mens restroom?  Thanks.  WB"

[quote=GolFA]

Look, I’m very tight with my clients, they get a ton
of service which is very personal. They won’t be sitting with you, and
don’t care about how you package your logic. I appreciate what you are
saying, and always try to look forward for pitfalls, and have had the
same thoughts and concerns, and can move on ideas as the situation
dictates. The next competitive move would be RIA, got that one all
figured out, but the cost/benefits of moving from b/d are  not as
compelling now that I am ready to move.

I get your technical points, that stuff is pretty obvious and been hashed over quite a bit here. A lot of reps forget that we are first and most importantly in the personal service business. We the reps should stick together more as professionals, since the profit of service and product providers is extracted from our labor, yet we continuously joust each other about relatively unimportant technical issues which divide us further and support the sectarian interests of entities that don’t even have personal relationships with (our) clients.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Ferris Bueller]

[quote=GolFA]( And I keep a note Warren wrote to me on my office wall - guess somewhere in his heart he appreciates what we do for the common man.)[/quote]

It reads:  "Dear Janitor.  Next time please make sure you empty the trash can under my desk, but NOT the one labeled 'recycle'.  Oh and can you please leave more TP for the mens restroom?  Thanks.  WB"

[/quote]



Ok I'll admit I didn't get it on the first reading, but the second time I damn near peed my pants!  That was masterful.
[/quote]

Nice contribution here, Joe.

[quote=GolFA][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=Ferris Bueller]

[quote=GolFA]( And I keep a note Warren wrote to me on my office wall - guess somewhere in his heart he appreciates what we do for the common man.)[/quote]

It reads:  "Dear Janitor.  Next time please make sure you empty the trash can under my desk, but NOT the one labeled 'recycle'.  Oh and can you please leave more TP for the mens restroom?  Thanks.  WB"

[/quote]



Ok I'll admit I didn't get it on the first reading, but the second time I damn near peed my pants!  That was masterful.
[/quote]

Nice contribution here, Joe.

[quote=GolFA]I get your technical points, that stuff is pretty obvious and been hashed over quite a bit here. A lot of reps forget that we are first and most importantly in the personal service business. We the reps should stick together more as professionals, since the profit of service and product providers is extracted from our labor, yet we continuously joust each other about relatively unimportant technical issues which divide us further and support the sectarian interests of entities that don't even have personal relationships with (our) clients. [/quote]

You come across as a stuck-up arrogant jerk.  Go ahead, tell me I'm right.

Sorry, my intention was to make a point to which we could all relate. Obviously I am way off the the mark, and I apologize. No response to the content of my meaning, so I guess I feel like I have wasted my time here. Carry on with the really important stuff, then.

Relax and stop taking yourself so seriously.  We GET that you probably have a phd in philosophy or something, no need to write like it.  For god’s sake read your quote above.

Honestly, Baller, I don't get your point. Why don't you take a shot at some logical debate here?

[quote=GolFA]Sorry, my intention was to make a point to which we could all relate. Obviously I am way off the the mark, and I apologize. No response to the content of my meaning, so I guess I feel like I have wasted my time here. Carry on with the really important stuff, then. [/quote]

"No response to the content of my meaning…"

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Actually that comment was mainly directed to you: specifically, I made the point that we are in the personal relationship business and that we get hung up on technical stuff to our own detriment ( in the spirit of what Nick Murray teaches), we end up fighting each other as professionals ---

And you, Joe, an apparent veteran here, your contribution to the discussion, to our investment of time and energy here, is to reinforce some childish humor - you seem to be more interested in the process than the content.

You may agree or not, just letting you know that it does not feel good spending time from my point of view.

Son you honestly are asking "WTF" is that supposed to mean or are you just pulling my pud?

Sorry, a typo, not " Son", should be “so”.

[quote=GolFA]

Actually that comment was mainly directed to you: specifically, I made the point that we are in the personal relationship business and that we get hung up on technical stuff to our own detriment ( in the spirit of what Nick Murray teaches), we end up fighting each other as professionals —

And you, Joe, an apparent veteran here, your contribution to the discussion, to our investment of time and energy here, is to reinforce some childish humor - you seem to be more interested in the process than the content.

You may agree or not, just letting you know that it does not feel good spending time from my point of view.

Son you honestly are asking "WTF" is that supposed to mean or are you just pulling my pud?

[quote=GolFA]

Honestly, Baller, I don't get your point. Why don't you take a shot at some logical debate here?

[/quote]

The point is that you are so busy trying to say something intelligent and verbose with your writing that your message is lost.  Stop trying to write a thesis and just say it.  Read Joe's post.  He makes a good point about not understanding WTF you are saying.

Just for kicks, what is your educational background?