Proudlp-

If Jones doesn't get an override, then why all the insurance agencies owned by EDJ Holdings? It can't be because they like paperwork, unless its green.

Come on dude. You can't really believe this.

proudlp:

I have never worked at Jones but what you are saying is, correct me if I am wrong, wholesalers do not know there product? I doubt it!

Jones takes a lower up front commision so they can pay a larger trail?

So does Jones pay the rep a .25 or .50 or 1.00% trail on the annuities?

And if they do pay a larger trail do they take back 70% of the trail and the rep keeps the 30% on the trail?

Either way I would perfer to choose how I get paid if I do an annuity.

Be it 7% or 5% or 2% with a trail income of my choice.

[quote=proudlp]

"Success,

The 6% we receive as indy's is the same 6% that Jones receives.  The GP's have chosen to give the IRs 4.5% and keep the remainder.  If you don't believe me ask one of your wholesalers.  Start with Lincoln."

I don't post about most of the commentary because most have their minds made up anyway, but this statement is 100% false.  I know and I can prove it one on one to anyone.  Unfortunately there are a bunch of wholesalers who quite frankly don't know the difference between what is paid to various companies.  Jones takes a lower upfront in favor of larger residuals for the IR.  Could they make 6 or more?  Sure...but they would have to trade that for lower future payments and have chosen to take the way that keeps you getting paid better in the long run.  You can go back to saying  that you think we are hypocritical or liars or that GPs make good money or whatever else the latest goofball idea on this board is, but I know this statement to be completely false.  Absolutely and without any shred of problem stating such.

[/quote]

Jones takes less up front on VA's so that "future payments" are better?  What are you talking about proudlp?  Future payments being revenue sharing?  Maybe you mean trails?  If I recall, the trail on a traditional annuity at Jones is 25bps.  How is that any better than what we get?  Being indy, I get the same trail and quite a bit more up front.  You will never convince me that Jones is not giving their IRs a haircut on VA business.  They absolutely do.  Do you really think that the annuity companies are paying Jones 4.5% gross with a 25bps trail and they just happen to pay the rest of the b/d's more?  Lay off the kool aid!

Yup..You all are all correct...I'm just full of kool-aid and obviously wrong.  (I was hoping to hear about the kool-aid). I'm tired...irritated and not going to debate people who already have their mind made up.  It is akin to writing a congressman...they already made their mind up before I wrote anyway, so all I do is get myself upset about an issue.

As I'm leaving the group I do believe it worth pointing out that anything you want can be found in the financial filings of companies and with insurance commissioners.  I'd challenge those who are so sure we take a haircut to find it and prove it...But I'd not donate my life to it because you are going to be looking a long time. 

So long to the group...I'm tired of me, my company, and my own reputation being treated like dirt in here...Got money to make elsewhere.

Ok here is the real truth.  Jones get 6.5% from all B-share annuities sold through the Hartford.  They pay the IR out based on 4.75%.  They will tell the IR’s that they do not hair cut that is a bold faced lie.  I have a good friend who works for Hartford/Planco.  He told me the real scoop several years ago.  Not only do the GP’s get 60% of the 4.75 but they keep a whole lot more on the front end.  When I was at Jones I was told by a GP not to bring it up again.  It would only cause problems.  They can candy coat it anyway they want.  The truth is the truth. 

I had  a client who transferred in a Metlife Bonus Annuity while I was at Jones. He wanted to add more money. I called Insurance Services , (#91, right?) and was told "No Problem." I called Metlife and asked how much will I get Paid?  SEVEN BPTS! Wow, that was pretty cool.  NOTHING I ever sold at Jones paid 7 points.... then I called Insurance Services again... and was told, Yes you will get paid, but not 7 pts- 5% gross and 35% of that to you.....

SO, Proud LP- WHERE did those other 2 points go? Is there a Homeless Edward Jones General Partner Foundation out there somewhere? Did EDJ refuse the extra 2 points? And if it's true that Jones takes LESS than other B/D, then WHY wouldn't every single freakin' Annuity company in the whole Free world be throwing themselves at your green feet?

You said you can go head to head on this- so, bring it on. Where did my other 2 points go?

[quote=proudlp]

Yup..You all are all correct...I'm just full of kool-aid and obviously wrong.  (I was hoping to hear about the kool-aid). I'm tired...irritated and not going to debate people who already have their mind made up.  It is akin to writing a congressman...they already made their mind up before I wrote anyway, so all I do is get myself upset about an issue.

As I'm leaving the group I do believe it worth pointing out that anything you want can be found in the financial filings of companies and with insurance commissioners.  I'd challenge those who are so sure we take a haircut to find it and prove it...But I'd not donate my life to it because you are going to be looking a long time. 

So long to the group...I'm tired of me, my company, and my own reputation being treated like dirt in here...Got money to make elsewhere.

 COWARD- Come back and fight llike an Incredible Hulk!

hoosier, "I have a friend who told me" is factual? Come on. PL asked you to prove it, nice try. This argument has gone on a long time and was likely started by someone upset that they could not sell a bonus rate annuiy to a client and left Jones. Find the buried money on the 10k and we'll talk.

muny, guess you missed the touchdown bonds! Me too, whew!

Well at least you did not attack anyone personally. I appreciate someone who says I give.

Maybe success with his 250K income will go as quietly. I would still recommend a calculator for both of you.

Guest1-

Let's see, EDJ is philanthropic. Out for the green in black and white. Read below and tell me what YOU think. Few IR's take the time to read the fine print at Jones. From the 10K filed 3/31/06.

ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE
At December 31, 2005, the Partnership was organized as follows: The
Partnership owns 100% of the outstanding common stock of EDJ Holding Company, Inc., and 100% of the outstanding common stock of LHC, Inc. ("LHC"), each of which is a Missouri corporation. The Partnership also holds all of the partnership equity of Edward D. Jones & Co., L.P., and EDJ Leasing Co., L.P., each of which is a Missouri limited partnership. EDJ Holding Company, Inc. and LHC, Inc. are the general partners of Edward D. Jones & Co., L.P. and EDJ Leasing Co., L.P., respectively. In addition, the Partnership owns 100% of the outstanding common stock of Conestoga Securities, Inc., a Missouri corporation, and also owns, as a limited partner, 49.5% of Passport Research Ltd., a Pennsylvania limited partnership, which acts as an investment advisor to a money market mutual fund and as a limited partner, 49.5% of Passport Research II Ltd., a Pennsylvania limited partnership, which acts as an investment advisor to a mutual fund. The Partnership owns 100% of the partnership equity of Edward
Jones, an Ontario, Canada limited partnership, and all of the common stock of Edward D. Jones & Co. Canada Holding Co., Inc., an Ontario, Canada corporation, its general partner. Through its Canadian entities, the Partnership owns all of the partnership equity of Edward Jones Insurance Agency, an Ontario, Canada limited partnership, all of the common stock of Edward D. Jones & Co. Agency Holding Co., Inc., an Ontario, Canada corporation, its general partner, and 100% of the common stock of Edward Jones Insurance Agency (Quebec) Inc., a Canada corporation. The Partnership also owns 100% of the equity of Edward Jones Limited, a U.K. private limited company, which owns 100% of the equity of Edward Jones Nominees Limited. The
Partnership owns 100% of the equity of Boone National Savings and Loan Association, F.A., (the "Association"), a federally chartered stock savings and loan association. The Partnership also owns 100% of the equity of EJ Mortgage L.L.C., a Missouri limited liability company. EJ Mortgage L.L.C. owns 50% of Edward Jones Mortgage, a joint venture. The Partnership holds all of the partnership equity in a Missouri limited partnership, EDJ Ventures, Ltd. Conestoga Securities, Inc., is the general partner of EDJ Ventures, Ltd.

The Partnership is the sole member of Edward Jones Insurance Agency Holding, L.L.C., a Missouri limited liability company; California Agency Holding, L.L.C., a California limited liability company and
Edward Jones Insurance Agency of New Mexico, L.L.C., a New Mexico limited liability company. Edward Jones Insurance Agency Holding, L.L.C. is the sole member of Edward Jones Insurance Agency of Wyoming, L.L.C., a Wyoming limited liability company. The Partnership and Edward Jones Insurance Agency Holding, L.L.C. are members of Edward Jones Insurance Agency of Massachusetts, L.L.C., a Massachusetts limited liability company. Edward Jones Insurance Agency Holding, L.L.C. and California Agency Holding, L.L.C. are members of Edward Jones Insurance Agency of California, L.L.C., a
California limited liability company. All of the insurance agencies engage in general insurance brokerage activities.

The Partnership holds all of the partnership equity of Unison Investment Trusts, L.P., d/b/a Unison Investment Trusts, Ltd., a Missouri limited partnership, which has sponsored unit investment trusts. The general partner of Unison Investment Trusts, L.P., Unison Capital Corp., Inc., a Missouri corporation, is wholly owned by LHC. EDJ owns 50% of issued common stock of S-J Capital Corp., a Missouri corporation. Conestoga owns 100% of the outstanding stock of CIP Management, Inc., which is the managing general
partner of CIP Management, L.P. CIP Management, L.P. is the managing general partner of Community Investment Partners II, L.P., Community Investment Partners III, L.P., L.L.L.P., Community Investment Partners IV, L.P., L.L.L.P. and Community Investment Partners V, L.P., L.L.L.P., business development companies. EDJ owns 7% of the Customer Account Protection Company Holdings, Inc. ("CAPCO"), a captive insurance group.

During 2002, the Partnership's affiliates, Edward Jones Insurance Agency of Nevada, Inc., Edward Jones Insurance Agency of Alabama, L.L.C., EJ Insurance Agency of Ohio and EDJ Insurance Agency of Texas, Inc., were dissolved. The Partnership's affiliates, Edward Jones Nominees PEP Limited and Edward Jones
Nominees ISA Limited, both 100% owned by Edward Jones Limited, a U.K. private limited company, were also dissolved. Edward Jones Insurance Agency (Quebec) Inc., a Canada corporation, was organized. During 2003, Community Investment Partners V, L.P., L.L.L.P., a business development company, was organized, and the Partnership's affiliate, Edward Jones Insurance Agency of
Montana, L.L.C., was dissolved. During 2004, Passport Research II Ltd., a Pennsylvania limited partnership, was organized, and the Partnership's affiliates, Edward Jones Insurance Agency of Michigan, L.L.C. and Cornerstone Mortgage Investment Group II, Inc., were dissolved.

[quote=munytalks] [quote=proudlp]

Yup…You all are all correct…I’m just full of kool-aid and obviously wrong. (I was hoping to hear about the kool-aid). I’m tired…irritated and not going to debate people who already have their mind made up. It is akin to writing a congressman…they already made their mind up before I wrote anyway, so all I do is get myself upset about an issue.

As I’m leaving the group I do believe it worth pointing out that anything you want can be found in the financial filings of companies and with insurance commissioners. I’d challenge those who are so sure we take a haircut to find it and prove it…But I’d not donate my life to it because you are going to be looking a long time.

So long to the group…I’m tired of me, my company, and my own reputation being treated like dirt in here…Got money to make elsewhere.

COWARD- Come back and fight llike an Incredible Hulk!

Guest 1-

The Partners admit it on the 10K. Why can't you?

All of the insurance agencies engage in general insurance brokerage activities.

88M in profit came from the companies noted on the last page. I guess you would call this buried treasure. The only reason to be a general agent is for the override. Period, end of story. Have a nice day. I am continually amazed at the correlation of stupidity and success at EDJ. Be a clydesdale, put one foot in front of the other, keep your eye on the target, and make those calls every day.

Can't wait for the regional meeting introductions (now that should be a thread by itself!).

[quote=hoosier]Ok here is the real truth.  Jones get 6.5% from all B-share annuities sold through the Hartford.  They pay the IR out based on 4.75%.  They will tell the IR's that they do not hair cut that is a bold faced lie.  I have a good friend who works for Hartford/Planco.  He told me the real scoop several years ago.  Not only do the GP's get 60% of the 4.75 but they keep a whole lot more on the front end.  When I was at Jones I was told by a GP not to bring it up again.  It would only cause problems.  They can candy coat it anyway they want.  The truth is the truth. [/quote]

This is the truth. 

I transfered from a bank platform to Jones and the excact same Hartford fixed annuity had a lower pay out to me at Jones.  When I called the wholesaler when I was compteting for business with another firm. I was using a proposal for a group 401K VA, I received two commission quotes. They accidentally quoted me the commission the other firm would be getting instead of the much lower Jones commission.  In addition the Hartford VA for Jones was only allowed to have the "preferred" funds making it a proprietary product while the Hartford product the other firm could offer had a much wider range of sub account companies which included a S&P 500 indexed fund.  I lost the business because the employees wanted that fund and a wider selection.

It is the truth that Jones takes a haircut on the payout on insurance products and then takes a further haircut off of the gross pay out the IR receives. 

FS,

thanks for the advice on the calculator.  Apparently, you feel that I do not the INDY platform.  Actually, it can make alot of sense for the right person.  If it was so clearly better for everyone, why is there a  merill, jones etc.  I'll say it again.  My commission, bonuses and profit sharing make my payout 48%.  I know i have some expenses, but not much.  my share of the phone is 40 bucks and stamps average maybe $50 a month.  I write off all expenses - cell phone, car, etc.  I dont need any more deductions.  i write off a ton now.  So for me, it is NOT clear in term of money.  More products to sell - sure.  But i dont need an index annuity to sell.  they suck and you know it. 

Bottom line.  You dont have to like Jones, but stop bashing the firm that trained your ass.  they at least gave you the opportunity.  thats right, they gave it to you before you sold the first damn stock.  so at least have a little respect

[quote=babbling looney]

[quote=hoosier]Ok here is the real truth.  Jones get 6.5% from all B-share annuities sold through the Hartford.  They pay the IR out based on 4.75%.  They will tell the IR's that they do not hair cut that is a bold faced lie.  I have a good friend who works for Hartford/Planco.  He told me the real scoop several years ago.  Not only do the GP's get 60% of the 4.75 but they keep a whole lot more on the front end.  When I was at Jones I was told by a GP not to bring it up again.  It would only cause problems.  They can candy coat it anyway they want.  The truth is the truth. [/quote]

This is the truth. 

[/quote]

This is totally TRUE. I could not believe it when I did a Hartford Ret Plan proposal and had funds in it that I had never heard of while I was at Jones.

Do any of the folks at Jones have any comments on the mailer sent out by Brett Campbell, Dan Timm, and Price Woodward regarding IR payouts at different firms and how Jones stacks up?

It basically reaks of the usual bs that only a committed believer would accept as explanation for their terrible payout.  And they compare Jones net payout with other firms net payout which anyone who has ever worked at Jones knows is bs.  Name a broker at another firm who has to pay for postage, toilet paper, office cleaning, etc. etc.

Some of my favorite quotes, "our unique compensation package does not translate easily into a standard industry model." And my personal favorite is, "Compensation, however is not the only job factor to consider."

That's right, you can't put a value on not having to attend lame meetings, where they talk about the same sales ideas and the importance of firm growth year after year after year.  I've gotta say I also enjoy having a few more arrows in my quiver with increased product offerings.

HULK- Not meant as an insult-

ProudLP started the topic then ran when he couldn't defend his position- hiding behind the "I'm better than than this" attitude.

You, on the other hand, will stay latched on like a Pit Bull and a mailman.

I agree with you that the training and support helped in the beginning. 

But how long is enough before you realize the benefits don't outweigh the trade-offs. Maybe when you try to transition your biz with the new succession plan in a few years the light will come on.

You are a good fit. I am not. At least I recognize it.

Bottom line.  You dont have to like Jones, but stop bashing the firm that trained your ass.  they at least gave you the opportunity.  thats right, they gave it to you before you sold the first damn stock.  so at least have a little respect

I have no respect for anyone who misrepresents themselves, cheats and lies to get their way.  I was a transfer broker so I didn't need to have my ass trained.  I should have looked a little more carefully into the company beyond their propaganda and not taken the RR survey of satisfied brokers at face value.  My fault.  They cost me a lot of money while I was there and I should have left much much sooner.  Again, my fault.

Nevertheless, If you are happy there then that is fine. As I have said before there are plenty of good people who work at Jones and plenty of qualified IRs.  Just don't believe everything they tell you and try to at least educate yourself on what the rest of the industry is like. 

The biggest objection I have with the drones and clones, who post cheerleader type posts about Jones, is the snotty, supercilious attitude that everyone else who isn't at Jones and especially those that left the fold, are evil and operate without any ethics or that we must be failures to have left the company.  As if they/you hold a monopoly on being the "good guys".  Your company is perfect, good the best:  everyone else is out to hose their clients and are hacks according to previous posts by Jonesers.

That attitude is clearly a cultist mind set and is why you hear the kool-aid references so often.

So I was on the golf course the other day with three guys I didn't know and we start going around the usual, "what do you do?"  What was interesting was my response now versus my response when I was at Jones.  I told him, "I own my own financial firm."  Just saying that response I surprised myself.  Prospects admire someone who owns their own business.   At the end of the round he asked me for my card.

At Jones I would've gone on with the usual script, "I help individual investors and small business owners..blah..blah..blah!"  This never packed the same punch as, "I own my own financial services business."  I am so happy I made the change.  I just had my Best Month Ever in the business and contrary to the clones and drones out there I didn't sell any Indexed Annuities.  I brought in $2mm in new money that I would've never gotten at Jones.  HAPPY, HAPPY, JOY, JOY!

[quote=spikedkoolaid]

So I was on the golf course the other day with three guys I didn't know and we start going around the usual, "what do you do?"  What was interesting was my response now versus my response when I was at Jones.  I told him, "I own my own financial firm."  Just saying that response I surprised myself.  Prospects admire someone who owns their own business.   At the end of the round he asked me for my card.

At Jones I would've gone on with the usual script, "I help individual investors and small business owners..blah..blah..blah!"  This never packed the same punch as, "I own my own financial services business."  I am so happy I made the change.  I just had my Best Month Ever in the business and contrary to the clones and drones out there I didn't sell any Indexed Annuities.  I brought in $2mm in new money that I would've never gotten at Jones.  HAPPY, HAPPY, JOY, JOY!

Congrats!

Go celebrate with some Cold Beer and Hot Wings at Hooters!