[quote=dude][quote=mikebutler222][quote=dude]

I happen to be open to the idea that events like September 11th are very persuasive...how else would you convince someone to give up their birthrights other than threatening their safety or by fraud? ....

I think Americans would gladly submit to a 'Global Government' if they were scared enough.

[/quote]

Actually "scaring" anyone, Americans especially, would cause them to grasp closer their national identity and security, imho.

[/quote]

Yeah, security is the suspension of habeas corpus right?  HAH!  The rights we hold dear are built upon habeas corpus.

[/quote]

Then you haven't had them since Lincoln suspended them? 

I'm really not interested in getting into a Keith Oblermann ()-type "habeas corpus has been suspended" conspiracy trail here. My point is simply if you want Americans to "submit" to some mythical "one world goverment" the last thing you want to do is kill a few thousand of them on their home turf. That will just get their back up and thei flags out.

[quote=dude]

I never realized that I'm among the illiterate here.  [/quote]

 OK, dude, read it your way. He's admited to working against the best interests of the US....

[quote=dude]

This is another quote from the above 'Internationalist':

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost 40 years........It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."

Hmmmmmm.  I must be wrong here.

[/quote]

I have a feeling you've been handed a bogus quote, dude.

Mike said:

Then you haven't had them since Lincoln suspended them? 

Reply:

I don't even know what you're getting at here.

[quote=dude]Mike said:

Then you haven't had them since Lincoln suspended them? 

Reply:

I don't even know what you're getting at here.

[/quote]

Lincoln really did suspend habeaus corpus during the Civil War.....

I know that....how's it relevant?

Another quote:

"The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations is promoting the disarmament of US. sovereignty and national independence and submergence into an all powerful, one world government".
Chester Ward, Rear Admiral and former Navy Judge Advocate 1956 - 1960 and CFR member for 15 years

Oh and I forgot to quote the source of one of my previous quotes:

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promise of discretion for almost forty years... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in past centuries".
David Rockefeller, in an address given to Catherine Graham, publisher of The Washington Post and other media luminaries in attendance in Baden Baden, Germany at the June 1991 annual meeting of the world elite Bilderberg Group.

And...

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dare to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the street looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
John Swinton, former chief of staff, The New York Times, in a 1953 speech before the New York Press Club

[quote=dude]

Another quote:

"The main purpose of the Council on Foreign Relations is promoting the disarmament of US. sovereignty and national independence and submergence into an all powerful, one world government".
Chester Ward, Rear Admiral and former Navy Judge Advocate 1956 - 1960 and CFR member for 15 years [/quote]

You don't seriously believe that, do you? Any idea who'se been on the CFR?  The list includes Robert Rubin, Maddy Albright, Richard Holbrook, Colin Powell, etc..

[quote=dude]

Oh and I forgot to quote the source of one of my previous quotes:

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promise of discretion for almost forty years... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto determination practiced in past centuries".
David Rockefeller, in an address given to Catherine Graham, publisher of The Washington Post and other media luminaries in attendance in Baden Baden, Germany at the June 1991 annual meeting of the world elite Bilderberg Group.

[/quote]

I think you'll find, if you search further, that reliability of said is dubious, at best. It appeared in the German press, nowhere else, and has been repeated endlessly... 

[quote=dude]

I know that....how's it relevant?

[/quote]

Well, it's relevant in that, while it isn't true today (habaeus corpus being suspended) it was in the past and the Republic survived.

Dude;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3773019.stm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_Foreign_Relations

[quote=dude]

And...

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dare to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the street looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
John Swinton, former chief of staff, The New York Times, in a 1953 speech before the New York Press Club

[/quote]

http://www.constitution.org/pub/swinton_press.htm

Variations on the quote below have been misattributed as a response to a toast, by John Swinton, as "the former Chief of Staff at the New York Times", before the New York Press Club in 1953.

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=dude]

And...

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dare to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the street looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
John Swinton, former chief of staff, The New York Times, in a 1953 speech before the New York Press Club

[/quote]

http://www.constitution.org/pub/swinton_press.htm

Variations on the quote below have been misattributed as a response to a toast, by John Swinton, as "the former Chief of Staff at the New York Times", before the New York Press Club in 1953.

[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that one up Mike. 

[quote=dude][quote=mikebutler222][quote=dude]

And...

"There is no such thing, at this date of the world's history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dare to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be so foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the street looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my paper, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify; to fawn at the feet of mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the tools and vassals of rich men behind the scenes. We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities, and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."
John Swinton, former chief of staff, The New York Times, in a 1953 speech before the New York Press Club

[/quote]

http://www.constitution.org/pub/swinton_press.htm

Variations on the quote below have been misattributed as a response to a toast, by John Swinton, as "the former Chief of Staff at the New York Times", before the New York Press Club in 1953.

[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that one up Mike. 

[/quote]

YW, it's the downside of the internet that no one knows you're a dog 

That's the crap I hate about the conspiracy movement...they often misquote people.  I also don't enjoy the 'hundreds' of competing theories on who 'dunnit 'and why...it certainly challenges the validity of the whole movement.

I wish they'd just stick to the facts and not get into so much speculation.

I believe that what is percieved as a 'conspiracy' is actually just a group of wealthy powerful individuals and groups trying to maintain or increase that wealth and power. 

Of course they want to keep their ideas secret/private...especially the ideas (which are indisputable) surrounding the uniting of world governments.  Who is stupid enough to broadcast their strategy to everyone else, whether it be financial or political?  That's a sure fire strategy for failure. 

From time to time one or more of these people (either independently or as part of a syndicate) are probably guilty of breaking laws and/ playing 'unfair' or arranging events which leverage their influence to bring about political/social conditions that favor their interests, which seems completely natural and plausible to me.

To me it is a matter of these folks trying to maintain staus and power for themselves and their dynasties.  The problem arises since they influence so many parts of our lives either directly or indirectly by being part of the nations most influential think tanks and governmental advisory commitees in addition to being the financiers of our economy and philanthropic institutuions.  Secrecy in those matters is a major concern to me...especially when their good buddies are the ones calling the shots and sending my fellow Americans off to war. 

For example Dick Cheney was a CFR member and I saw him admit to fraudulently OMITTING that fact when he was running for office in Wyoming while addressing the CFR on a televised event(...it elicited laughs from the CFR attendees.  Yeah, lies of ommission in order to conceal facts about oneself is funny....right.

These are the guys you stand behind Mike?

[quote=dude]

That's the crap I hate about the conspiracy movement...they often misquote people..... 

I wish they'd just stick to the facts and not get into so much speculation. [/quote]

If they stuck to facts and didn't make up quotes they'd have nothing to say. It's like telling a dog not to lick, well, you get the picture..

[quote=dude]For example Dick Cheney was a CFR member and I saw him admit to fraudulently OMITTING that fact when he was running for office in Wyoming while addressing the CFR on a televised event(...it elicited laughs from the CFR attendees.  Yeah, lies of ommission in order to conceal facts about oneself is funny....right.

These are the guys you stand behind Mike? [/quote]

I have no idea what you're talking about, I don't know if Cheney was ever in the CFR, but I can assure you that among rational people there would be no need to deny it.

[quote=dude]

For example Dick Cheney was a CFR member and I saw him admit to fraudulently OMITTING that fact when he was running for office in Wyoming while addressing the CFR on a televised event(...it elicited laughs from the CFR attendees.  Yeah, lies of ommission in order to conceal facts about oneself is funny....right.

These are the guys you stand behind Mike?

[/quote]

Having done a quick Google, I found the following from a nutjob conspiracy website. I can only assume you're talking about Cheney's joke at the end, the one that was cut off when the ominous music starts...

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/video_cheney_talks_to_c fr.htm

Dude, btw, I don't know what your views are of these anti-CFR/one world gov't conspiracy theories are, so this isn't an attack on you, but you do realize these guys are the orginial "black helicopter" people, right?

black helicopter?

[quote=mikebutler222][quote=dude]

For example Dick Cheney was a CFR member and I saw him admit to fraudulently OMITTING that fact when he was running for office in Wyoming while addressing the CFR on a televised event(...it elicited laughs from the CFR attendees.  Yeah, lies of ommission in order to conceal facts about oneself is funny....right.

These are the guys you stand behind Mike?

[/quote]

Having done a quick Google, I found the following from a nutjob conspiracy website. I can only assume you're talking about Cheney's joke at the end, the one that was cut off when the ominous music starts...

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/video_cheney_talks_to_c fr.htm

[/quote]

MikeB it wasn't a joke, he was telling the truth and the crowd thought it was funny.  He thought it was funny that he 'ommitted' the fact that he was a CFR member.  You LOVE the spin eh?