[quote=FreedomLvr][quote=knucklehead][quote=FreedomLvr]

You're very touchy, Knuck.  Take a deep breath and relax; I wasn't jabbing at you.  If you'd like to pick a fight there are plenty of other guys, and a few gals, around here who'd be happy to take you up on it.  I don't come here for brawls, I come here for information.

To answer your question:  "Mr./Mrs. Client, this is definitely the product for you.  Last year (last 3 years, last 5 years, last 10 years, etc.) it returned 27% to everyone who bought it from me."

[/quote]

Oh. I'm sorry. I see, now, that you were just trying to spread some good cheer. I'll get my B/D to call you, so we can satisfy your curiosity.

[/quote]

It's no problem, and I don't need to talk to your b/d about it.  The bottom of every MF and VA prospectus spells it out pretty clearly.

[/quote]

See above.

[quote=FreedomLvr][quote=FreedomLvr][quote=knucklehead][quote=FreedomLvr]

You're very touchy, Knuck.  Take a deep breath and relax; I wasn't jabbing at you.  If you'd like to pick a fight there are plenty of other guys, and a few gals, around here who'd be happy to take you up on it.  I don't come here for brawls, I come here for information.

To answer your question:  "Mr./Mrs. Client, this is definitely the product for you.  Last year (last 3 years, last 5 years, last 10 years, etc.) it returned 27% to everyone who bought it from me."

[/quote]

Oh. I'm sorry. I see, now, that you were just trying to spread some good cheer. I'll get my B/D to call you, so we can satisfy your curiosity.

[/quote]

It's no problem, and I don't need to talk to your b/d about it.  The bottom of every MF and VA prospectus spells it out pretty clearly.

[/quote]

See above.

[/quote]

We're going in circles. Here's the deal...I don't care what you think of me or what I do. I LOVE my business and I LOVE the money I make. You're not gonna say anything that's gonna get me to change and I really don't care what you think, in the first place. If you're curious about what my B/D thinks, you're gonna stay that way. Have a nice day.

Knuck, I don't know much about you and I'm a big fan of VA's.  I think they happen to be fantastic investments for clients who want a bit more safety than a MF yet have the potential for significantly greater gains than fixed annuities (including EIA's), bonds, CD's, etc.  I even think the commissions on most of them are fair, considering that there's more to explain than with a MF if you want the client to understand.  Especially when you're using some of the newer riders to offer additional guarantees.

My point was not that you're selling the wrong product or ripping off clients.  I don't know anywhere near enough about your business to make a judgement like that.

My concern, based on one of your earlier posts, was that you said you were selling these based on their performance adn their guarantees.  The guarantees are great on many VA's, and a fantastic selling point.  However, since we have no idea what an investment is going to do in the future, selling the client a product based on past returns is unethical.

The first time I asked that question to you, I thought for sure that you'd respond, "Of course I let my clients know that there's upside potential, however I always make sure the other features and benefits are in line with my clients investment goals.  In non-retirement accounts the tax-deferred growth may be important to the client.  The liquidity they have available during the period where there's a CDSC is enough to meet and short-term emergency needs they think they'll have, etc etc...

Okay, the b/d line WAS a jab, I'll admit it and apologize.  But come on...

[quote=FreedomLvr]

Knuck, I don't know much about you and I'm a big fan of VA's.  I think they happen to be fantastic investments for clients who want a bit more safety than a MF yet have the potential for significantly greater gains than fixed annuities (including EIA's), bonds, CD's, etc.  I even think the commissions on most of them are fair, considering that there's more to explain than with a MF if you want the client to understand.  Especially when you're using some of the newer riders to offer additional guarantees.

My point was not that you're selling the wrong product or ripping off clients.  I don't know anywhere near enough about your business to make a judgement like that.

My concern, based on one of your earlier posts, was that you said you were selling these based on their performance adn their guarantees.  The guarantees are great on many VA's, and a fantastic selling point.  However, since we have no idea what an investment is going to do in the future, selling the client a product based on past returns is unethical.

The first time I asked that question to you, I thought for sure that you'd respond, "Of course I let my clients know that there's upside potential, however I always make sure the other features and benefits are in line with my clients investment goals.  In non-retirement accounts the tax-deferred growth may be important to the client.  The liquidity they have available during the period where there's a CDSC is enough to meet and short-term emergency needs they think they'll have, etc etc...

Okay, the b/d line WAS a jab, I'll admit it and apologize.  But come on...

[/quote]

Freed, quit trying to get chummy with me. I'm sorry that YOUR annuities haven't performed well enough to be of interest to your clients. Mine have.

lol.  Best of luck to you.

[quote=knucklehead][quote=FreedomLvr][quote=FreedomLvr][quote=knucklehead][quote=FreedomLvr]

You're very touchy, Knuck.  Take a deep breath and relax; I wasn't jabbing at you.  If you'd like to pick a fight there are plenty of other guys, and a few gals, around here who'd be happy to take you up on it.  I don't come here for brawls, I come here for information.

To answer your question:  "Mr./Mrs. Client, this is definitely the product for you.  Last year (last 3 years, last 5 years, last 10 years, etc.) it returned 27% to everyone who bought it from me."

[/quote]

Oh. I'm sorry. I see, now, that you were just trying to spread some good cheer. I'll get my B/D to call you, so we can satisfy your curiosity.

[/quote]

It's no problem, and I don't need to talk to your b/d about it.  The bottom of every MF and VA prospectus spells it out pretty clearly.

[/quote]

See above.

[/quote]

We're going in circles. Here's the deal...I don't care what you think of me or what I do. I LOVE my business and I LOVE the money I make. You're not gonna say anything that's gonna get me to change and I really don't care what you think, in the first place. If you're curious about what my B/D thinks, you're gonna stay that way. Have a nice day.

[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=knucklehead][quote=FreedomLvr][quote=FreedomLvr][quote=knucklehead][quote=FreedomLvr]

You're very touchy, Knuck.  Take a deep breath and relax; I wasn't jabbing at you.  If you'd like to pick a fight there are plenty of other guys, and a few gals, around here who'd be happy to take you up on it.  I don't come here for brawls, I come here for information.

To answer your question:  "Mr./Mrs. Client, this is definitely the product for you.  Last year (last 3 years, last 5 years, last 10 years, etc.) it returned 27% to everyone who bought it from me."

[/quote]

Oh. I'm sorry. I see, now, that you were just trying to spread some good cheer. I'll get my B/D to call you, so we can satisfy your curiosity.

[/quote]

It's no problem, and I don't need to talk to your b/d about it.  The bottom of every MF and VA prospectus spells it out pretty clearly.

[/quote]

See above.

[/quote]

We're going in circles. Here's the deal...I don't care what you think of me or what I do. I LOVE my business and I LOVE the money I make. You're not gonna say anything that's gonna get me to change and I really don't care what you think, in the first place. If you're curious about what my B/D thinks, you're gonna stay that way. Have a nice day.

[/quote]

If you really don't care what anybody thinks, then why are you here?
[/quote]

Free entertainment.

Feedom,

I agree that selling based on past performance can be a double edged sword but how the hell do you sell people on investing in equities?

Broker: "Gee Mr. Client, I think you should invest in stocks 'cause they offer the potential to gain higher returns than bonds"

Mr Client: "How do you know this"

Broker: "Um, well, I can't really tell you because it would mean that I'd be relying on past performance data and who knows what's going to happen tomorrow."

Mr Client: "Sounds great, gimme $200,000 worth of that stock stuff!"

You sound really ignorant.  How do mutual funds get clients?  How is a GUARANTEE on a VA sold?  Because of the past behavior of those investments (how can a guarantee be sold without making the case for one based on how markets have performed in the past)

Broker: "Gee, Mr. Client you might want to consider buying this guarantee to protect your investment."

Client: "Why would I need one of those?"

Broker: "Um, well, to tell you this is unethical since it uses past performance, but the stock market CAN go down and has before, just don't tell anyone I told you that."

Utterly assinine.

"Um Mr. Client, I'm recommending this mutual fund that has gone down every year over the last 10 years, but that doesn't matter 'cause tomorrow is a different day and as you know past performance is no guarantee of the future."

How do you decide to do anything without some guidance from what has come before.

You can't sell investments without depending on some basis in the past.

Sole reliance on past performance is certainly not wise, but what else are you going to do?

[quote=NASD Newbie]You may not believe this, but on line profiles are not necessarily accurate.[/quote]

Newbie

At what point in your incredible career did you come out of the closet?

Dude,

Knuck's quote was "All I have to do is show people the performance and guarantees and it's a done deal."

That was my concern, Dude (Had to throw in Big Lebowski quote).

I was addressing your statement that "selling based on past performance is unethical".  This is simply untrue.

For someone who sells solely based on past performance without discussion about the potential that the performance will not repeat..... well I'd say they are definitely flirting with the dark side and are in for some nasty suprises.

The thing is, I have read enough of Dirk's (knucklehead) posts about his annuity sales and I get the impression that he is candid and honest (although he can come off a little like a car salesman in his posts).  It is not a bad thing that he explains the product and uses the actual performance of his annuities to close the sale in my opinion, as long as necessary caveats are addressed.  So far I believe that Dirk does address this.

Posting from home (lunch today).......BlindToTruth is alias for dude when posting from home.

You’re right, I definitely should have included “Selling SOLELY based…”

[quote=BlindToTruth]

Posting from home (lunch today).......BlindToTruth is alias for dude when posting from home.

[/quote]

Are you blind to truth at home but not at work?  I would think once a Dude always a Dude.

[quote=NASD Newbie

Are you blind to truth at home but not at work?  I would think once a Dude always a Dude.

[/quote]

I think you just described yourself to a t.

Nah, I’m not a Dude–but I am a stud and I’ve been called the human tripod on a few occasions.

[quote=NASD Newbie]Nah, I'm not a Dude--but I am a stud and I've been called the human tripod on a few occasions.[/quote]

Your legs are two inches long fully extended??????

Was at home and wanted to post on a subject that I am nieve on and forgot my password.  I’m glad to have a place where I can be ‘set straight’ when I need it, since there is a lot for me to learn.

Oh and it’s dude…not Dude.  Purposefully understated with a dash of humor intended.