Any Way You Cut It, Kerry's A Jerk!
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Does it really matter what party affiliation you belong to? Does it matter whether you're for or against the war?
What Kerry said about "either you're smart or you're stuck in Iraq" is a blatant disrespect of our military. (Of course, I'm paraphrasing here, but the gist is the same.)
Republican or Democrat, it stinks to high heaven and Kerry's the only one who's been eating beans!
I agree. Whether you are a Dem. or Rep., disrespect such as that is uncalled for. The fact that he won’t apologize only continues this disregard for those that are fighting for his right to say things that display his idiocy.
Gee. A pompous pseudo-intellectual who married into money makes another truly ignorant statement, then won't back away from it.
It seems they're everywhere!
John Kerry is a coward. He was a coward in Viet Nam and he’s a coward on our soil.
[quote=doberman]
Does it really matter what party affiliation you belong to? Does it matter whether you're for or against the war?
What Kerry said about "either you're smart or you're stuck in Iraq" is a blatant disrespect of our military. (Of course, I'm paraphrasing here, but the gist is the same.)
Republican or Democrat, it stinks to high heaven and Kerry's the only one who's been eating beans!
[/quote]
You're really buying into this? Dobe, you're smarter than this.
If you turn off Fox News and watch ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, you'll find that Kerry did nothing to disrespect our military. He clarified his remarks. The republicans, who have had nothing to cheer about are latching on to this and spinning it in what has become an all too familair arrogant assault on the intelligence of the american people. Fox News has really run with this ball, presenting a one sided view, cynically deriding Kerry's clarification. They did not show Kerry's clarification, while ABC and CNN did. ABC and CNN were balanced in their reporting and commentery. After getting the entire story a viewer comes away with two thoughts: Kerry didn't say anything disrespectful about the military, and that Kerry is an idiot who got what he deserved for trying to take a politcal pot shot.
That said, we can debate whether education, the prospects for higher education, or economics in general, play a role in the demographics of our military. I think we all know the answer to that one.
[quote=My Inner Child]John Kerry is a coward. He was a coward in Viet Nam and he's a coward on our soil. [/quote]
Again, I'm not a Kerry fan, but please tell us why you believe he is a coward?
He clarified his remarks.
No he didn't. There was nothing to clarify. He said what he meant and he meant what he said.
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
There is no way to rearrange these words to make them anything else. He has contempt for the military and no respect for the people who volunteered for service. He trashed the military when he left Vietnam and he is doing it now. This is the person who you would have as Commander in Chief? Right now he is frantically trying to spin and cover up his real thoughts. As busy as a cat in a litter box covering up scat.
And as to your and Kerry's contention that the military consists of a bunch of losers and dolts here are some statistics on academic composition. Granted this is of the Air Force which has a higher level of college educated members.
Academic Education
-- 49.2 percent of officers have advanced or professional degrees; 39.4 percent have master's degrees, 8.5 percent have professional degrees and 1.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 22.8 percent of company grade officers have advanced degrees; 16.5 percent have master's degrees, 5.9 percent have professional degrees and 0.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 85.4 percent of field grade officers have advanced degrees; 70.7 percent have master's degrees, 12.1 percent have professional degrees and 2.5 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 99.9 percent of the enlisted force have at least a high school education; 73.3 percent have some semester hours toward a college degree; 16.2 percent have an associate's degree or equivalent semester hours; 4.7 percent have a bachelor's degree; 0.7 percent have a master's degree and .01 percent have a professional or doctorate degree.
Many who join the military (my two nephews for example) have done so not only to serve but also to be able to pay for future college that they could not otherwise afford.
Stereotyping an entire class of people as dumb, redneck hicks, religious nuts and other such things is a standard tactic of the liberal leftist elites of which John Kerry is the poster boy.
Chris Matthews of MSNBC's Hardball tried to say that Kerry's quote was taken out of context and when you listened to the whole speech you would understand it was a shot a Bush. Garbage. Listen to crowd reaction to his "joke" (deafening silence). Even the supporters in the audience who heard the entire speech understood that he was referring to the military as a career of last resort.
Even if you believe Kerry's "clarification", the fact is that what he said came out as an insult and he should apologize. That's the right thing to do. He's trying to copy Bill Clinton by fighting back against the right wing conspiracy but as usual is so out of touch with real people that he can't pull it off.
[quote=babbling looney]
He clarified his remarks.
No he didn't. There was nothing to clarify. He said what he meant and he meant what he said.
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
There is no way to rearrange these words to make them anything else. He has contempt for the military and no respect for the people who volunteered for service. He trashed the military when he left Vietnam and he is doing it now. This is the person who you would have as Commander in Chief? Right now he is frantically trying to spin and cover up his real thoughts. As busy as a cat in a litter box covering up scat.
And as to your and Kerry's contention that the military consists of a bunch of losers and dolts here are some statistics on academic composition. Granted this is of the Air Force which has a higher level of college educated members.
Academic Education
-- 49.2 percent of officers have advanced or professional degrees; 39.4 percent have master's degrees, 8.5 percent have professional degrees and 1.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 22.8 percent of company grade officers have advanced degrees; 16.5 percent have master's degrees, 5.9 percent have professional degrees and 0.3 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 85.4 percent of field grade officers have advanced degrees; 70.7 percent have master's degrees, 12.1 percent have professional degrees and 2.5 percent have doctorate degrees.
-- 99.9 percent of the enlisted force have at least a high school education; 73.3 percent have some semester hours toward a college degree; 16.2 percent have an associate's degree or equivalent semester hours; 4.7 percent have a bachelor's degree; 0.7 percent have a master's degree and .01 percent have a professional or doctorate degree.
Many who join the military (my two nephews for example) have done so not only to serve but also to be able to pay for future college that they could not otherwise afford.
Stereotyping an entire class of people as dumb, redneck hicks, religious nuts and other such things is a standard tactic of the liberal leftist elites of which John Kerry is the poster boy.
[/quote]
Don't like Kerry huh?
Are you talking to me with these remarks? Because if you are, you're attaching things to me that I didn't say.
Did I say that I wanted Kerry as president? No! In fact, the best thing to come out of this mess is that it, in all likelihood, takes Kerry out in 08. Right now, McCain, or Guillianni would be my first choices for pres in 08. However, McCain is stepping into this controversy, which cheapens him in my view. Regardless of what the spin machine wants, he knows Kerry didn't dispararge anyone. Looks like Hillary will get the nod from the dems. That'll be a mess even though I don't find her objectionable. Then there's Obama. Hmm...
Did I say that I consider members of the military losers and dolts? No I didn't say that. I didn't even imply that. I certainly don't believe that. So, I have to ask, where did you get that? Of course I am assuming you are talking to me since I'm the only one on the thread who has offered a counter view of the topic.
My oldest son blew off Villanova to join the Marines. Him, I do consider an idiot. I love him just the same. And obviously, he's not stupid. As it turned out the Marines rejected him for a medical condition he didn't have. Someone, no doubt with an advanced degree, screwed up. We went through a process that took six months to try to clear the error. We found out that, at least within the recruiting command chain, they don't admit to mistakes. As disappointed as my son was, no one was more pissed off about it than the local recruiter, a sargeant, who said the problem was systemic within his chain of command. Whatever that means? My son went on with his life only to have the Marines call him back about a year later with a revelation that a mistake had been made and he was good to go. Having had a front row seat to the recruiting fiasco, the recruiter's reaction to it, a valuable lesson, he told them to go eff themselves. A smart move on his part because of the direction his life has taken.
As a side note to that, we could have side stepped the entire issue if I'd enlisted the help of a friend of mine, who just happened to be the top doctor in the navy. One phone call and he was in. We decided against that route, not knowing what effect it might have on my son when he got to basic training. Noone likes people who pull strings, least of all, drill sargeants. When talking to my friend, I never mentioned the marines.
My own take is that the military is an excellent option that all HS and college grads should consider. That the local Marine recruiting process was in such disarray, doesn't impact that view. Yet, my belief is that most, not all, recruits are still joining for economic reasons. That is, they have poor job and/or educational prospects at home, so they join to get the leg up that the military offers. In this way, there is a demographic tilt within the military towards the economically disadvantaged.
Let's face it, there aren't too many Pat Tillmans quiting high paying jobs or dropping out of top schools to join the fight. The education and training benefits were front and center in the Marines pitch to my son. We told them that was a non issue, the kid's getting a bought and paid for education regardless, next slide. However, to a person without the means to pay for an education, that would be a powerful incentive. As you said your own nehews are using their military service as a way to pay for college.
Within my school district, over 90% of the HS graduates go on to college. We live in an upper middle class suburb. You can count on one hand the number of kids going directly from HS into the military in our district. The recruiters, themselves, told us our area, our town and the surrouding towns were one of the toughest recruiting assignments in the country because of the opportunities these kids have. Different demographics would produce different results. You can call that leftist, elitist, or you can call it what it is, reality.
Point me to the URL that shows the educational level of our military.
I've hated Kerry since Vietnam. and the damage that he did to the returning soldiers at that time and the lingering damage in the stereotype of the psycho baby killer Vietnam vet that he helped to create. I despise his elitist snobbish attitude.
Point me to the URL that shows the educational level of our military.
http://www.af.mil/news/story_print.asp?storyID=123027385
As I noted this is for the Air Force which is likely to have a higher percentage of college graduates. I am quite sure that the other branches probably have more enlistees from societal areas that join for the economic benefits. Nevertheless this is NOT like it was when Clinton was dodging the draft, where if you didn't go to college you WERE likely to be stuck in Vietnam. Everyone is a volunteer for current service. Kerry and the rest of the liberal aging hippies are stuck in a time warp. I don't know about you but I want people to govern who are forward looking instead of being high centered on their flaming youth.
McCain will never be the nominee for President. Most Republicans while they have great admiration for him as a man and as a veteran who suffered terribly view him as a turncoat to the party. I wouldn't vote for him just because the McCain/Feingold assault on our first amendment rights. Giuliani would be a good choice because he is pretty much a moderate socially and tough on crime and the terrorist. And contrary to the Democrats/Kos crowd's idea, most Republicans are social moderates. Rudy/Condi would be my pick.
Hillary would energize the Republican base. She would be a terrible pick for the Democrats. Obama, whatever. Lightweight.
Regardless of what the spin machine wants, he knows Kerry didn't dispararge anyone
Yes he did. You can deny and spin this all you want. He said what he said, and it was insulting to the people in the military and to all prior military personnel. It reveals his mindset and the way that his party looks on the people of America as substandard and less than they. Very similar attitude to our resident troll Put Trader/Devil's Advocate and all of his persona.
Anyone who says Kerry did not spit in the face of 10,000,000 who have served has never served. Add in the families who love these military members and you has 30,000,000 pissed off Americans!
There is no way to break down his comment.
Everything about the comment is BS.
We are a force of volunteers.
We constantly focus on mandatory and non-mandatory education. The Air University provides degrees from Associates to Masters. It is just about required that one has a degree to be an officer or top three ranks as an enlisted member.
Bondguy, since 9/11 the middle class has stepped up to the plate and entered the military. This was verified by a PEW study last year. In the end it’s funny that the military is run by civilians.
Personal response to John Kerrys comment:
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
When one leaves high school it is hopeful they have a positive opinion of our country in general.
Option one: At age 18 young adult can chose to serve in the Armed Forces and become a man or woman, while obtaining OJT (on the job training) and an education through military (Air Force Community College) & civilian schools. At age 25 military member has traveled to different states and potentially over seas, while obtaining respect from friends, family and others. This individule has been in leadership positions training and leading other military members. Individule has opportunity to attend distance or on-site educational programs with most tuition and fees paid for by government. At age 30 military member is a non-commissioned officer and only 8 years away from retirement. This leader now a mentor for other military members, while providing guidance and senior level management for accomplishment of mission. When the veteran hits 40 they have veteran preferance for a federal position and most companies want that military integrity, disipline and leadership! Some of these military members go on to fill advanced positions within government, military contractors, politics and other organizations. The benefits that an individule obtains with an honorable discharge can include health, tuition, grocery (40%+ discounts), travel and a life long brother/sister hood with 10,000,000 veterans. We stick together and support one another during a time of need.
Second option: Enter college at the age of 18 and upon completion have 100k in student loans with minimal OJT experience. During the students educational process they obtain limited OJT experience and obtaining real world hands on experience in areas of culture, society and life outside their hometown or spring break. During college many students are tempted to join Moveon.org or some other peace organization to justify world peace or less military. Another option to avoid tuition and fee’s is that mommy or daddy cover costs. At age 24 individule moves forward with 30,000 career. At age 30 individule is 38/42 years away from collecting Social Security or 30+ years from pension. At 40 individule is sick and tired of career path, but locked in awaiting 20+ years till retirement…
This is not to say one path is better then the other, but just to show the potential paths…
Of course in college one could join teams or organizations and become a leader. In the military this is mandatory and part of a military members developtment. Military member also has the option at the end of contract to leave active duty and join the reserves. At 20 years individule has some benefits, but full pension and medical benefits start at age 60. In the end it is a large commitment to enlist with the constant positibility of going to war, but it is tough to question which path is smarter?
Finally does the general public have a 99.7% completion of High School.
Now if the child watches CNN and listen to parents who go out of their way to slam the president and US then they would be negative. I mean after all 99% of the world wants to come here, but the it is obvious to me many Americans are just spoiled!
Comrade Kerry, disguised Republican, leads republicans to victory
[quote=BondGuy]
You're really buying into this? Dobe, you're smarter than this.
If you turn off Fox News and watch ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, you'll find that Kerry did nothing to disrespect our military. He clarified his remarks. [/quote]
No, Bondguy, he didn’t. Instead of simply saying he’d misspoken and meant no disrespect, and apologizing, Lurch can out swinging at his hastily called press conference and whined about his words being twisted and how he wasn’t going to take it. The take away line was “I apologize to no one”.
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This C- student who likes to pretend to be something more as he attacks the intellect of another C- student has got to be the most tone-deaf, self-indulgent fool to ever marry (twice) into money. Now he's radioactive and no Democrat wants to bee seen with him. Hilary is beside herself with joy.
BTW, Kerry does have a pattern of saying stupid things about our military. He did it in the early 1970s before the Senate Foreign Relations committee, he did it just months ago when he talked about US troops “terrorizing” Iraqis.
[quote=BondGuy]
[quote=My Inner Child]John Kerry is a coward. He was a coward in Viet Nam and he's a coward on our soil. [/quote]
Again, I'm not a Kerry fan, but please tell us why you believe he is a coward?
[/quote]
I wouldn't use that word (after all, he did volunteer for active duty) but some of his fellow officers who were with him during his brief visit (4 months, 1/3 the normal tour) to Vietnam have.
Whether or not the guy meant it in a more positive light or it was taken out of context, the simple fact is that he pissed off tons of people - both military and non-military - and his comments cheapen what they sacrifice their lives for in many instances. What is more ridiculous is the fact that he tries to explain and justify, vs. simply saying "I didn't mean it in that way and I apologize if I offended anyone".
[quote=babbling looney]He clarified his remarks.
No he didn't. There was nothing to clarify. He said what he meant and he meant what he said.
“You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”
There is no way to rearrange these words to make them anything else. He has contempt for the military and no respect for the people who volunteered for service. He trashed the military when he left Vietnam and he is doing it now. This is the person who you would have as Commander in Chief? Right now he is frantically trying to spin and cover up his real thoughts. As busy as a cat in a litter box covering up scat.[/quote]
TJ, I love ya, man, but I'm with Babs here. I have no doubt that Kerry meant what he said and said what he meant. This is far from the first time he's stuck his foot in his mouth ("I was for the war before I voted against it", or some such nonsense), and it's not likely to be the last. The missteps of the current presidency aside, if I had it to do all over, I would vote for W again. When I considered Kerry as a candidate, I really was left with no choice and I still feel that way. If Kerry were a smart man, he'd disappear from the political landscape for awhile because he's doing about as much damage to the Dems as Hastert and Foley did to the Repubs. A smart man knows when it's time to shut up and he obviously hasn't figured that out yet. You are spot on that he's eliminated himself from the 2008 race.
I consider myself a "purple" but I don't have any use for idiots Like John Kerry.