Dude, that’s a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on your part.

Yeah…a slow day.  Stirring up the mud a little helps with the slow days.  All in good fun of course.

[quote=Indyone]Dude, that's a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking on your part.[/quote]

He also said we aren't losing the war in the same article.

Well, that's nice but how about including the rest of the quotes and not just the ones that support your tin foil hat ensemble.   Dibbs on blue.

Gates later said he agreed with a recent statement by Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Peter Pace that the United States is neither winning nor losing in Iraq. But he also made clear that he saw some missteps in the U.S. approach in Iraq, saying he didn't believe enough troops were sent to Iraq to quell looting and violence immediately after Saddam Hussein's government fell.

The reason we are not "winning" this war is because we don't have enough troops on the ground and are too concerned about having a politically correct war where no one actually gets hurt and we don't offend the delicate sensibilities of the Islamo-facist or their supporters on the left.  Can you imagine the whining and hand wringing if we actually fought this war on a level of a real war like ....oh.... say..... World War 2 where 62 million people died.  The military has not been allowed to do its job and has been hampered by all this political correctness BS.  If they had been allowed to take names and kick a@@ from day one and hadn't been hamstrung by the New York Slimes newspaper at every turn, we would probably not be having this discussion.  But no, we have to hear about every single casualty even if the daily body count is actually less than that in a single city in the US like Chicago.  In addition we get to hear the propaganda and outright lies created by the enemy as if it were fact, daily regurgitated by the AP. 

http://newsbushttp://www.examiner.com/blogs/tapscotts_copy_d esk/2006/12/5/How-to-end-APs-60-Minutes-Moment-on-Iraqi-Sour cesters.org/node/9396

On the issue of troop levels, Gates said he envisioned a long-term, U.S. presence to stabilize Iraq "but it could be with a dramatically smaller number of U.S. forces than are there today." He offered no number.

Gates also said he considered an attack on Iran to stop its nuclear programs an "absolute last resort" and made a comment that might just as well apply to Iraq as Iran.

Anyone who has ever raised children or trained a dog knows you must say what you mean, mean what you say, and follow through on threats.  If we say that we will attack Iran if they don't stop the creation of nuclear bombs, we had damn well better back up our words with actions.  God help us all if we don't.

You can't un-ring a bell. Whether we were right or not to go into Iraq is a moot point and it is pointless to navel gaze on the past.  We are there now and we need to win and win decisively.  If we give up, go whining home as we did in the past in the Middle East and in Vietnam, we will just embolden the enemy who wants to kill us all.   Not just Republicans but guess what YOU TOO.  If we don't show a nut sack and back up our words with actions we might as well just resign ourselves to never-ending terrorist attacks on the United States and forget ever taking a vacation in Europe without wearing a burka.

Here's the deal Dude.  You are very very young and idealistic.  That's nice, most adolescents are prone to see the world through a narrow window of experience and through rose colored glassed.   I don't want the world to be run by adolescents.  In about 25 years, if we all live that long, I hope you look back at the younger Dude and say   What was I thinking.

Hear Hear Babs…I’m with you all the way!!!

Amen, sister…

/bow

[quote=babbling looney]

Well, that's nice but how about including the rest of the quotes and not just the ones that support your tin foil hat ensemble.   Dibbs on blue.

[/quote]

There was a link if you didn't notice...

[quote=babbling looney]

Here's the deal Dude.  You are very very young and idealistic.  That's nice, most adolescents are prone to see the world through a narrow window of experience and through rose colored glassed.   I don't want the world to be run by adolescents.  In about 25 years, if we all live that long, I hope you look back at the younger Dude and say   What was I thinking.

[/quote]

So there's no older pragmatic individuals which support my position?  I guess Bond Guy is an ideal adolescent? 

To me your contention or implication that Vietnam is a war we really could have won is silly and adolescent. 

Anyone who has studied Vietnam and Vietnamese history is well aware that they have been fighting as a culture for centuries and centuries against foriegn powers and they don't give up...period.  Also it demonstrates an ignorance of the way the Vietnamese viewed the war. 

The only college class I've ever taken was on Vietnam..given by a highly decorated former Special Forces professor (who happened to be a strong conservative btw) who trained soldiers and ran numerous missions in Vietnam.  

It was his class where I first learned to understand the 'perceptual lens' concept.  His intimate understanding forged by experience in Vietnam is responsible to a great degree for my own 'perceptual lens' concerning war.

Frankly, I'm not all too excited that a bunch of crusty old has beens suckled on the nipple of warmongering and falsly induced fears are the one's who direct the policies which sacrifice the lives of my 'adolecent' peers. 

I'm intensely patriotic, but can't stand for geriatrics like yourself telling me that my opinions and beliefs are worthy of an ignorant teenager.  Especially since I'm in the generation which would sacrifice our lives for whatever 'cause' your generation seems to believe in. 

Make any bullsh*t comment you like about the Gen x or y'ers and the degredation of our youth.  I think it's a good thing that some of us actually think, unlike the generations past. 

What I lack in experience, I make up for in my advisors.

[quote=joedabrkr]Hear Hear Babs....I'm with you all the way!!!! [/quote]

Fine Joe...you go fight the war.  I'll stay at home smiling in my garden thankful that I'm not risking my life in vain.

dude,

You said, "I'm intensely patriotic, but can't stand for geriatrics like yourself telling me that my opinions and beliefs are worthy of an ignorant teenager.  Especially since I'm in the generation which would sacrifice our lives for whatever 'cause' your generation seems to believe in." 

Are you really in the generation that would sacrifice their lives?  Have you served in the military?  Do you understand that generals should be allowed to fight wars, not politicians?  Do you understand that those "terrorists" over there want us dead no matter what?  DO you understand that if we don't fight them on their soil, we'll fight them on ours?  Do you understand that whimpering and whining and tucking our tails and running just makes them want to kill us even more?  Do you understand that if the press weren't so busy printing and video taping the negatives, that maybe we could see the positives?  Do you understand that there are more people dying here from drug overdoses, murders, and drunk drivers than there are soldiers killed in the line of duty in Iraq?  DO you understand that those soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines jooined an all volunteer force knowing that they may one day be asked to die for their country and did it without "any mental reservation"?  Do you understand that the swore to serve and protect the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic?  Why is it that their biggest enemy right now is the domestic enemy to include half of the politicians who couldn't give a rat's behind about the troops but will stand and lie on national television about how concerned they are for their safety?

dude,

    Crawl back under a rock.  I guarabtee you that if we had elected the other two bozos who ran against Bush, their would have been many, many more deaths on U.S. soil since 9-11.

Oh, by the way, I am a 25 year retired veteran and do know a little about the feelings of the troops that are serving today.  They are willing to die to protect your right to your opinion.  Are you willing to die to protect their right to their opinion?  Think about it. 

To the grammar/spelling police.  Sorry I mis-spelled guarantee – guarabtee.

I think everyone here is missing the point....Bush is full of hot air and is densely obstinant.  He has been trumpeting that we are 'winning' in Iraq, when that is not the truth.

My point is that there should be no war in Iraq.  The real front for the war on terror should be Afghanistan.  Iraq is a DISTRACTION from the war on terror.

Some here are boxing me into a corner where I don't belong.  If there is just cause for a war (like the 'real' war on terror) then I am behind it all the way.  I don't think distractions contribute to winning a war.

I think Americans are obsessed with war....war on poverty, drugs etc...etc...

It's the dominant paradigm (especially of those who have served, understandably) that war is the solution. 

When war is hammered into the heads of a people, it's no wonder their only hammer is war. 

[quote=dude]  Also it demonstrates an ignorance of the way the Vietnamese viewed the war.  [/quote]

Ask the million+ Vietnamese who tried to leave on rickty boat or who "attended" re-education camps after we broke faith with them and ran how they viewed it....

[quote=dude] Frankly, I'm not all too excited that a bunch of crusty old has beens suckled on the nipple of warmongering and falsly induced fears ...[/quote]

Right, that hole in the ground in NYC, that was just some remodeling gone wrong, and the people who did it, they didn't mean it. All's forgiven, they say....

 [quote=dude]  I think it's a good thing that some of us actually think, unlike the generations past.  [/quote]

With all due respect, dude, the conspiracy stuff you continue to bring up here doesn't pass for "thought"...

[quote=dude] What I lack in experience, I make up for in my advisors.[/quote]

Let me guess, the black helicopter guys, right?

[quote=dude]

[quote=joedabrkr]Hear Hear Babs....I'm with you all the way!!!! [/quote]

Fine Joe...you go fight the war.  I'll stay at home smiling in my garden thankful that I'm not risking my life in vain.

[/quote]

Right, dude, the Islamofascists, they're a creation of the Tri-Lateral Commission, the CFR and some of Rocekfeller's pals. Fear not, people who see the world more clearly than you will keep you safe, playing in your garden.

You can thank them later, but I suspect you won't.

Right, that hole in the ground in NYC, that was just some remodeling gone wrong, and the people who did it, they didn't mean it. All's forgiven, they say....

Reply:

Yup....Afghanistan is where we should be resolving that tragedy...not Iraq.

Let me guess, the black helicopter guys, right?

Reply:

I guess my suspicion concerning your reading comprehension has just been supported. 

Did you read the part about the Special Forces professor who served in Vietnam? 

[quote=dude]

Right, that hole in the ground in NYC, that was just some remodeling gone wrong, and the people who did it, they didn't mean it. All's forgiven, they say....

Reply:

Yup....Afghanistan is where we should be resolving that tragedy...not Iraq.

[/quote]

You might want to listen to the guys from the outfit that made that hole, they say the center front is Iraq.

Okay, I will pile on here. If I were still in the Army and leading this effort in Iraq, we would have won already!

Instead of sending our troops over there, I would have outsourced the war to North Korea in exchange for having INTC, MOT, and GE teach them how to be the next Samsung.