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Sep 19, 2008 1:04 am

Whether or not MS makes it for awhile longer is of little importance.  The brand is forever tarnished with the news of Mack calling around to Citi, CITIC, Wachovia or whoever else would take his call asking for a hand out to keep the lights on.  Embarrassing

Sep 19, 2008 1:10 am

I don't think so.  They came out with pretty dang good earnings and their stock price was being destroyed.  I would've done whatever I could to make sure my employees and shareholders got as much as possible.  That's why Thain looks so much better than the BSC and LEH guys. 

 
MS got down to 11.  If the SEC and the Treasury didn't come out with what they did, MS would be toast.  Who knows what would've happened to GS.  It's ugly.  It's not over either.
Sep 19, 2008 1:14 am

Agree its not over.  By many accounts you can see the earnings were an accounting mirage, if certain "creative" book keep was not used the numbers were dreadful.  Scary times no doubt, think public trust in these places is going to take a long long time to recover.  Even when it stops, the lawsuits will just be getting started. 

Sep 19, 2008 1:21 am
fritz:

Agree its not over.  By many accounts you can see the earnings were an accounting mirage, if certain "creative" book keep was not used the numbers were dreadful.  Scary times no doubt, think public trust in these places is going to take a long long time to recover.  Even when it stops, the lawsuits will just be getting started. 

 
Regarding trust:
 
Went to pick up some papers from a client I have never met or talked to.  They only have a little bit with us, but are worth a ton more.  I told the wife how well we were holding up in their account and she said they are down so much in their other brokerage accounts she can't even bear to look at the statements.
 
I asked her what she's doing about it and she says at this point she is so far down she needs to stay invested.  I told her, "There is a way to stay invested, but get a guaranteed growth of income just in case.
 
She asks, "Who is guaranteeing it?"
 
I say, "The insurance companies do".
 
As soon as I said that, I was like, oh...this isn't going to be good.
 
It's going to be hard to overcome for some people, that's for sure.
Sep 19, 2008 1:32 am

Older client asked me about a month or two about a muni he had if it was insured?  I said yes AMBAC insured, as i was looking at the stock trading (ABK) at about a buck I almost started laughing inside about how insane it was to even imply the bond was insured. 

Sep 19, 2008 1:56 am
fritz:

Whether or not MS makes it for awhile longer is of little importance.  The brand is forever tarnished with the news of Mack calling around to Citi, CITIC, Wachovia or whoever else would take his call asking for a hand out to keep the lights on.  Embarrassing

 
Embarassing is you calling yourself an adviser but making a comment that I'd overhear Joe Public make after watching one segment of CNBC.
 
This would be embarassing if these market conditions weren't making landmarks in the world of finance fall. It'd be embarassing if Merrill, Lehman and other giants weren't in need of help as well. The fact that Gorman, Mack and Sidwell are exhausting ALL avenues of exploration is what I'd want from my firm as an adviser, client and shareholder.
 
 
Sep 19, 2008 7:36 am

I'm not at MS or GS, but if I were I'd be touting to clients that the company was strong enough to make it alone.....assuming we're through the worst of it.  On the other hand....

 
In the last 3 months, the markets themselves have made a very compelling argument for all of us to be independent and not subject to the financial roller-coaster that comes from the boom/bust cycle of a large firm.
Sep 19, 2008 11:04 pm

I truly believe Morgan Stanley is looking great!   They are standing on their own and trying to take care of the company....not just give up.