Jones 10-K

or Register to post new content in the forum

16 RepliesJump to last post

 

Comments

  • Allowed HTML tags: <em> <strong> <blockquote> <br> <p>

Plain text

  • No HTML tags allowed.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
Mar 31, 2008 10:12 am

Can someone interpret this thing for me?


http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/815917/000106880008000132/0001068800-08-000132.txt
 
 
Is it saying that Weddle pulled in $10.7 million in '07?
Mar 31, 2008 10:41 am

That appears accurate, but it's mostly his partnership profit allocation.  Salary and deferred comp is almost nothing in comparison.  I can see quickly why it's a good thing to be a general partner.

Mar 31, 2008 11:39 am

I know they are still growing the pie (rev up 18%), but expenses almost kept up (+16%). I wonder how many people hired in the last 5 years think they can get a piece of the GP pie? Looks like Weddle has the 3% max mentioned (based on his 10m+ allocation and 381m income allocated to GPs). But doesn't the little GP at .03% only pull in $130k? I guess that's good if you are a staff type. Curious how big the slice is that the newest RL GPs get...even if only .1%, that's an extra $380k last year for doing the job you've been doing. Those guys don't get paid for years of extra work beforehand though. But I think newer people that are expecting the kind of income (over $1m per GP in 2007) from being a GP one day are "chasing returns."

Mar 31, 2008 1:01 pm
Cowboy93:

I know they are still growing the pie (rev up 18%), but expenses almost kept up (+16%). I wonder how many people hired in the last 5 years think they can get a piece of the GP pie? Looks like Weddle has the 3% max mentioned (based on his 10m+ allocation and 381m income allocated to GPs). But doesn't the little GP at .03% only pull in $130k? I guess that's good if you are a staff type. Curious how big the slice is that the newest RL GPs get...even if only .1%, that's an extra $380k last year for doing the job you've been doing. Those guys don't get paid for years of extra work beforehand though. But I think newer people that are expecting the kind of income (over $1m per GP in 2007) from being a GP one day are "chasing returns."

 
I don't think you fully understand.  GP's are all upper-level management.  They either are Regional Leaders (typically with substantial books and income already, as they are advisors first and foremost), or senior home-office people (with substantial GP shares, often times former Regional leaders or top producers in the field).
 
Bottom line, there are no GP's that are hurting.  On the other hand, LP's are different.  There are thousands of BOA's and FA's that are LP's.  You just have to have tenure and a profitable office. 
 
 
Mar 31, 2008 1:07 pm
Borker Boy:

Can someone interpret this thing for me?


http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/815917/000106880008000132/0001068800-08-000132.txt
 
 
Is it saying that Weddle pulled in $10.7 million in '07?
 
Yes.  Those listed are GP's.  Keep in mind, they are the most highly compensated GP's in the firm.  This is all of tehir compensation, so it pales in comparison to the 10's of millions that most other B/D and banking CEO's, CFO's, etc. get.  Most of them make more when they get fired compared to what Weddle makes after 24 years at the firm.  Just 3 years ago, he was at $6.5mm.  Most big firm CEO's make that as their salary, not including company stock, stock options, perks, etc.  Keep in mind, the GP's BUY their shares also.  They are not given options and restricted stock as part of a bonus program.
Mar 31, 2008 1:18 pm

And the only time it goes up is when they add partnership to the firm.  There is a finite amount of it out there, so they can't just issue more of it without a full partnership offering.  Historically that has happened every 3-4 years.   

 
I've said it before that if I were Jim I'd be a little jealous of the other guys sitting at the table at some of the industry big wig meetings.  Jim gets his meager $250K salary (which is his only guaranteed amount) and his returns from his GP.  No stock options, no big bonuses, no corporate jet.  I'm not sure how he can afford to fill the gas tank on his Ferrari's.   
Mar 31, 2008 1:51 pm

Come on Spiffy-


 
Even Bachman rented the jet. Are you gonna tell me that Jimmy doesn't do what John did?
 
You are the best at defending Jones.
Mar 31, 2008 3:07 pm

I don't know.  Maybe he does have a jet that can be rented.  I've never asked and I don't really care. 

 
Thanks for the compliment.
Mar 31, 2008 4:07 pm
Broker24:

[quote=Cowboy93]

I don't think you fully understand. GP's are all upper-level management. They either are Regional Leaders (typically with substantial books and income already, as they are advisors first and foremost), or senior home-office people (with substantial GP shares, often times former Regional leaders or top producers in the field).



Bottom line, there are no GP's that are hurting. On the other hand, LP's are different. There are thousands of BOA's and FA's that are LP's. You just have to have tenure and a profitable office.







Yes, I fully understand..I know how people get to be a GP. What I'm saying is that for anyone who has any inkling of being a RL, the GP is THE monetary carrot or pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Obviously a lot of volunteering and extra work goes into getting to that point, ABOVE AND BEYOND building a very successful business. The guy who has been a GP since 1984 has experience a phenomenal return on investment---what I'm suggesting is that the current Growth Leader who aspires to RL should realize there's a diff between his GP RL's current income --yes, I know that not all RLs are GPs--and his potential....could be better, but you're "buying higher" if you will. Not everyone aspires to GP, but I know some people then start asking themselves: why am I taking on a part time job (Growth Leader, Trainer Mentor Performance Coordinator Segment Trainer, etc...) with no tangible benefit. The bigger you get, the harder it is to maintain the "volunteer spirit." The 10-k does a decent job of addressing the competitive forces for people, by the way.



I also agree that MP pay is reasonable in light of CEO pay...however, those guys run much bigger enterprises (revenue, profits, etc) since they don't only have the retail divisions. For example Merrill's revenue in 2006 was $34B (vs. EJ $4B in 2007) and net was $7.5B (vs. EJ $0.5B in 2007). Bottom line--if you run a large organization you're going to make tons of money. Nothing wrong with that.

Mar 31, 2008 4:09 pm
Spaceman Spiff:
I've said it before that if I were Jim I'd be a little jealous of the other guys sitting at the table at some of the industry big wig meetings.





I'm not sure he is invited to the big kids table.

Mar 31, 2008 4:30 pm
Cowboy93:
Broker24:

[quote=Cowboy93]

I don't think you fully understand.  GP's are all upper-level management.  They either are Regional Leaders (typically with substantial books and income already, as they are advisors first and foremost), or senior home-office people (with substantial GP shares, often times former Regional leaders or top producers in the field).

Bottom line, there are no GP's that are hurting.  On the other hand, LP's are different.  There are thousands of BOA's and FA's that are LP's.  You just have to have tenure and a profitable office. 



Yes, I fully understand..I know how people get to be a GP. What I'm saying is that for anyone who has any inkling of being a RL, the GP is THE monetary carrot or pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Obviously a lot of volunteering and extra work goes into getting to that point, ABOVE AND BEYOND building a very successful business. The guy who has been a GP since 1984 has experience a phenomenal return on investment---what I'm suggesting is that the current Growth Leader who aspires to RL should realize there's a diff between his GP RL's current income --yes, I know that not all RLs are GPs--and his potential....could be better, but you're "buying higher" if you will. Not everyone aspires to GP, but I know some people then start asking themselves: why am I taking on a part time job (Growth Leader, Trainer Mentor Performance Coordinator Segment Trainer, etc...) with no tangible benefit. The bigger you get, the harder it is to maintain the "volunteer spirit." The 10-k does a decent job of addressing the competitive forces for people, by the way.

I also agree that MP pay is reasonable in light of CEO pay...however, those guys run much bigger enterprises (revenue, profits, etc) since they don't only have the retail divisions. For example Merrill's revenue in 2006 was $34B (vs. EJ $4B in 2007) and net was $7.5B (vs. EJ $0.5B in 2007). Bottom line--if you run a large organization you're going to make tons of money. Nothing wrong with that.

 
I agree with you.  It is much different running Merrill than EDJ.  After all, the only profitable division at most banks & brokerages this past year was the brokerage/wealth management unit.  You then add the complexities of investment banking, commerical banking in some cases (i.e. BAC, Citi), etc. - it's just another beast.  Far more issues to deal with than jsut brokerage.  And there is far more risk at the other firms as well, since there is more money to lose (i.e. our current debacle).  It's gotta be tough to lose money in wealth management, even when the market is bad.  I think that is why some firms are considering spinning off the wealth management units.  You could get as much value out of those units as the entire package is currently worth.
 
Not sure I follow your logic on the GP thing, but then again, I don't put much thought into GP at this point, so I am not the expert on what other advisors are focusing on.
Mar 31, 2008 8:04 pm

On a slightly different tack, I got my yearend summary from Jones. They said that I recieved a total payout percentage after including everything, diversification trips, profitablity bonuses of over 47%...... It made me laugh when they counted the business value of those trips, i.e. the dollars that the Preferred vendors threw in to get it to 47%. They forgot to take out all of my out of pocket expenses......Makes me wonder if I made a good decision going indy and netting over 68%.......

Apr 1, 2008 8:59 am

It's always about the payout, isn't it?


 
Best decision I ever made to leave the green machine. Now 18 months later, I can't believe the crap I spewed and believed....
 
No more short RL puffing their chest, or acting like they really care but don't. No more double speak and no more putting big bucks in the GP's country club fund.
 
Free at last.
Apr 1, 2008 9:38 am

I'll bet some of the things you learned to believe, while at Jones, about investing, client relationships, trust, and service, etc are still things that drive your business today.  Just because you left Jones, doesn't mean you changed your fundamental belief system.  The stuff about GPs, LPs, volunteering, payout, blah blah blah is all meaningless to the client.  You believed that stuff as strongly as you do the stuff about being indy is vastly better.  And you spout that crap everyday to anyone who will listen.  It's not inherently better.  It's simply different. 

Apr 1, 2008 12:06 pm

I'll bet some of the things you learned to believe, while at Jones, about investing, client relationships, trust, and service, etc are still things that drive your business today. Just because you left Jones, doesn't mean you changed your fundamental belief system.

 
Absolutely.
 
The stuff about GPs, LPs, volunteering, payout, blah blah blah is all meaningless to the client.  You believed that stuff as strongly as you do the stuff about being indy is vastly better.  And you spout that crap everyday to anyone who will listen.  It's not inherently better.  It's simply different. 
 
Let's just say that I have a much different perspective now that I have been both independent and an employee at Jones. I echo your statement of my belief that being independent is vastly better than as an employee of Jones.
 
Spiff- You have more than doubled my production on this forum and you have the gall to refer to my responses as "spouting the crap everyday to anyone who will listen"
Perhaps you ought to heed your own advice about spouting...
 
Apr 1, 2008 12:33 pm

Touche.  My apologies.