[quote=joedabrkr] [quote=NASD Newbutt]

[/quote]

It's nonsense to sneer about the paycut to leave production.  Branch managers often have one, or perhaps two, producers who net more in their good years than the manager.

But the vast majority of producers in a branch will net less than their manager--and many of them net less than their operations manager too.

[/quote]

The bold print would describe EXACTLY what is wrong with the business model and priorities of the wirehouse culture.  I honestly wonder why ANY successful producer would stay in a wirehouse branch.
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It's up to the producer, Joeboy.  If one or two guys can make more than the branch manager why can't every guy?

You've been paying your own way for a number of days now.  How much more are you netting at the bottom line--after all your ticket charges, equipment lease payments, matching FICA, the whole ball of wax?  I'll bet it's barely noticable--and if you rented space as nice as you had at UBS you'd actually be behind.

That's a legitimate question--please offer up an honest answer.

[quote=NASD Newbie] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Just another guy facing the reality that he doesn't have what it takes to be selected to be a chief instead of an indian. [/quote]

"Selected"? You mean "elected", as in elected to go into management as things weren't working out in production. Ever met a 1sr quintiler that got into management? Me neither. The vast majority are third tier guys heading to 4th.

[quote=NASD Newbie]

What buck private in the army didn't say that he was better qualified than his Sergant--....[/quote]

The word is "sergeant", btw, but your analogy is flawed. The branch manager isn't someone, like a sergeant, who's already proven his ability to be a private. He's far more likely to be more like the high school drama coach who became one only after he failed at being an actor.

[quote=NASD Newbie]The world is filled with never weres who are angry about it. [/quote]

Yep, it's amazing how many of the "never weres" occupy manager's offices.

[quote=NASD Newbie]Get over it Mike, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being a broker for your entire life--even though you'll retire on a day when you did the same thing you did on day one.  Having never been promoted or offered more responsibility.

[/quote]

"Offered"? You mean "offered" a manager's desk as opposed to being shown the door? By your logic the operation manager has "more responsibility" than the broker.

Then again, it's common for people who add nothing to the firm's bottom line to believe they're better and smarter than those who DO created the firm's revenue. I guess that's how they are able to look themselves in the mirror in the morning, knowing what they failed at.

[quote=NASD Newbie] <?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

It's nonsense to sneer about the paycut to leave production. [/quote]

Pay cut? For most it was the only way to continue to get a paycheck in this industry. People hitting the ball out of the park don't leave the money to babysit other brokers. 

[quote=NASD Newbie] But the vast majority of producers in a branch will net less than their manager--and many of them net less than their operations manager too. [/quote]

IOW, there are more people who fall into the vast middle (2nd, 3rd quintiles) than fall in the 1st. Thanks for the math lesson. The fact is the achievers (1st quint) types don't leave production, those treading water in the middle seek dry land in the form of management.

[quote=NASD Newbie]The reason managers leave production is because they're bright and bored by the mundane life of a financial advisor.  [/quote]

Right, because there's so much exciting and mentally stimulating work to be found in picking up after people making more than you do, not to mention hiring support staff, paying the light bill, and generally taking out the loser's frustration on the newbies.

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=joedabrkr] [quote=NASD Newbutt]

[/quote]

It's nonsense to sneer about the paycut to leave production.  Branch managers often have one, or perhaps two, producers who net more in their good years than the manager.

But the vast majority of producers in a branch will net less than their manager--and many of them net less than their operations manager too.

[/quote]

The bold print would describe EXACTLY what is wrong with the business model and priorities of the wirehouse culture.  I honestly wonder why ANY successful producer would stay in a wirehouse branch.
[/quote]

It's up to the producer, Joeboy.  If one or two guys can make more than the branch manager why can't every guy?

You've been paying your own way for a number of days now.  How much more are you netting at the bottom line--after all your ticket charges, equipment lease payments, matching FICA, the whole ball of wax?  I'll bet it's barely noticable--and if you rented space as nice as you had at UBS you'd actually be behind.

That's a legitimate question--please offer up an honest answer.

[quote=joedabrkr]

No problem-before taxes I'm netting about 80%.

If I was renting comparable space it would likely be around 45-50%.  Difficult to answer because as a sole proprietor it is honestly harder to rent a small 'nice space' at a reasonable cost.  That is where scale can make a difference.  In fact, I'm currently in negotiation with some other producers to rent a very nice space together!

As I've tried to tell you before, too, it is about so much more than just the short term payout!  I rather suspect you simply just don't get it when it comes to that.
[/quote]

No I get it a lot, bunches.  I also know that at the end of the day you have to be a pretty big hitter to justify fleeing a wirehouse.

You have to be careful about renting space with some other guys who are also indy--it will become very tempting to spend a lot of time talking and not enough time working.  I suggest that if  you want to share office space go to one of those places where you can rent a nice office, share a secretary, office equipment and all that.  They normally have a nice conference room for you to meet with your clients and the other guys and gals who are around won't be as tempting to waste time with because you won't have the market in common.

Eighty percent before taxes--what do you think it will be after taxes, remember both sides of the FICA equation.

[quote=Indyone][quote=NASD Newbie][quote=Indyone]Hey newb…I’m a broker AND branch manager…and I know which job is more demanding…it’s not even close…

Do you have 75 ego driven college graduate prima donnas working in that office?  How about 50 women of various sizes and shapes, all with PMS at the same time?[/quote]

...nope, my branch is nothing like that, but assuming it was, I would have a hard time understanding why anyone in their right mind would take a pay cut to leave production for that kind of crap.[/quote]It's nonsense to sneer about the paycut to leave production.  Branch managers often have one, or perhaps two, producers who net more in their good years than the manager.[/quote]

Well, I have news for you...this certainly wasn't the case in our organization.  Far from sneering, I was actually offered an opportunity to interview for the program manager position in 2002 and the compensation package (with bonus, even) was within a whisker of what I was making at the time, and certainly less than my 04 & 05 years. I told management that I was honored to be considered, but that I wanted to stay in production in an office that was closer to my home.  I'm now staring at a September that will pay me well over what the holding company CEO is making, much less my old manager.  I hardly think this is unusual in these parts, as I've spoken with other producers who turned down similar opportunities because it would have resulted in a reduction in pay.

I get the feeling that New York wirehouse operations are not necessarily representative of what is happening in the fly-over states.

Indyone, if I am not too far off you have described yourself as a relatively minor producer, but that you're happy with your lot in life.

That's fine, but if you're saying that a manager in your organization makes less than you, and that you're actually relatively mediocre all I can say is nobody in your organization is doing very well.

Managers of small (by head count) wirehouse offices will make upwards of a quarter of million with their performance bonuses--those who run the big shops can make well over $1 million per year.

If somebody came to you and offered a base of $250,000 with bonus potential of 100% of that to run a fifty producer branch in suburban St. Louis would you turn it down?

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=joedabrkr]

No problem-before taxes I’m netting about 80%.

If I was renting comparable space it would likely be around 45-50%.  Difficult to answer because as a sole proprietor it is honestly harder to rent a small ‘nice space’ at a reasonable cost.  That is where scale can make a difference.  In fact, I’m currently in negotiation with some other producers to rent a very nice space together!

As I’ve tried to tell you before, too, it is about so much more than just the short term payout!  I rather suspect you simply just don’t get it when it comes to that.
[/quote]

No I get it a lot, bunches.  I also know that at the end of the day you have to be a pretty big hitter to justify fleeing a wirehouse.

You have to be careful about renting space with some other guys who are also indy--it will become very tempting to spend a lot of time talking and not enough time working.  I suggest that if  you want to share office space go to one of those places where you can rent a nice office, share a secretary, office equipment and all that.  They normally have a nice conference room for you to meet with your clients and the other guys and gals who are around won't be as tempting to waste time with because you won't have the market in common.

Eighty percent before taxes--what do you think it will be after taxes, remember both sides of the FICA equation.

[quote=NASD Newbie][quote=Indyone][quote=NASD Newbie][quote=Indyone]Hey newb…I’m a broker AND branch manager…and I know which job is more demanding…it’s not even close…

Do you have 75 ego driven college graduate prima donnas working in that office?  How about 50 women of various sizes and shapes, all with PMS at the same time?[/quote]

...nope, my branch is nothing like that, but assuming it was, I would have a hard time understanding why anyone in their right mind would take a pay cut to leave production for that kind of crap.[/quote]It's nonsense to sneer about the paycut to leave production.  Branch managers often have one, or perhaps two, producers who net more in their good years than the manager.[/quote]

Well, I have news for you...this certainly wasn't the case in our organization.  Far from sneering, I was actually offered an opportunity to interview for the program manager position in 2002 and the compensation package (with bonus, even) was within a whisker of what I was making at the time, and certainly less than my 04 & 05 years. I told management that I was honored to be considered, but that I wanted to stay in production in an office that was closer to my home.  I'm now staring at a September that will pay me well over what the holding company CEO is making, much less my old manager.  I hardly think this is unusual in these parts, as I've spoken with other producers who turned down similar opportunities because it would have resulted in a reduction in pay.

I get the feeling that New York wirehouse operations are not necessarily representative of what is happening in the fly-over states.

[quote=NASD Newbie]Indyone, if I am not too far off you have described yourself as a relatively minor producer, but that you’re happy with your lot in life.

That's fine, but if you're saying that a manager in your organization makes less than you, and that you're actually relatively mediocre all I can say is nobody in your organization is doing very well.

Managers of small (by head count) wirehouse offices will make upwards of a quarter of million with their performance bonuses--those who run the big shops can make well over $1 million per year.

If somebody came to you and offered a base of $250,000 with bonus potential of 100% of that to run a fifty producer branch in suburban St. Louis would you turn it down?[/quote]

I was producing about 375K when I left, which admittedly, by NY standards, is mediocre at best.  In the rural midwest, it's considered a respectable, if not top quartile number.  Our organization only had one producer above that level, and correspondingly, eight below that...some significantly below that.  Although I couldn't tell you the exact level of comp my BOM made, I know what I was offered, and considering the job description, I was more than happy to turn it down.  Obviously, bank management didn't assign the value to the position that NY wirehouses do...I honestly think they considered it more of a babysitting position.  It was all I could do to not laugh when they told me what the package was.

Even though 500K is significantly more than I make today (unless I turn next month's production into my monthly average), I would without hesitation, turn it down because I enjoy production too much and I see huge potential where I'm at, despite the demographics I've described.  Moreover, managing 50 producers sounds like a headache to me.  When I think of a typical BOM around here, I think more about managing 10-12 people tops...we just don't have large operations in my territory, although I'm sure if I were closer to large metro areas like Chicago, that would be a much different story.  I think our difference of opinion lies mostly in what we see as typical BOMS, and I'll allow that image is quite different, depending upon where you grew up...

[quote=NASD Newbie]

Indyone, if I am not too far off you have described yourself as a relatively minor producer, but that you're happy with your lot in life.

That's fine, but if you're saying that a manager in your organization makes less than you, and that you're actually relatively mediocre all I can say is nobody in your organization is doing very well.

Managers of small (by head count) wirehouse offices will make upwards of a quarter of million with their performance bonuses--those who run the big shops can make well over $1 million per year.

If somebody came to you and offered a base of $250,000 with bonus potential of 100% of that to run a fifty producer branch in suburban St. Louis would you turn it down?

[/quote]

No.

Financial Hassler