MetLife vs. Morgan Stanley

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Oct 6, 2005 11:10 am

I ve been in the business for about a year. I had a bad experience at JPMorgan and  now I have offers from Met and Morgan. Obviously, Met is more insurance and annuity related but I am interested.


If anyone has any good advice, I'd very much appreciate it.

Oct 6, 2005 2:17 pm

VAGA BUNDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oct 6, 2005 2:33 pm
MacPhisto:

I ve been in the business for about a year. I had a bad experience at JPMorgan and  now I have offers from Met and Morgan. Obviously, Met is more insurance and annuity related but I am interested.


If anyone has any good advice, I'd very much appreciate it.




That's a Toledo Mudhen versus NY Yankee choice, and Met is the Ohio team. 

Oct 6, 2005 10:33 pm
mikebutler222:
MacPhisto:

I ve been in the business for about a year. I had a bad experience at JPMorgan and  now I have offers from Met and Morgan. Obviously, Met is more insurance and annuity related but I am interested.


If anyone has any good advice, I'd very much appreciate it.




That's a Toledo Mudhen versus NY Yankee choice, and Met is the Ohio team. 



Stanley,


How the hell have you been?  I was a little worried that you got the pink slip - must be doing $260k a year then . 

Oct 6, 2005 10:54 pm

MacPhisto


You have no choice its Morgan all the way

Oct 7, 2005 7:53 am
jonesnewbie:
mikebutler222:
MacPhisto:

I ve been in the business for about a year. I had a bad experience at JPMorgan and  now I have offers from Met and Morgan. Obviously, Met is more insurance and annuity related but I am interested.


If anyone has any good advice, I'd very much appreciate it.




That's a Toledo Mudhen versus NY Yankee choice, and Met is the Ohio team. 



Stanley,


How the hell have you been?  I was a little worried that you got the pink slip - must be doing $260k a year then . 



You got the wrong guy, Jonsie. But, if "Stanley" is doing $260k a year, wouldn't that make him a top 10% producer at EJ? Say, has Jones given you an office yet, or are you working out of your livingroom?

Oct 7, 2005 12:39 pm

Why then are all of the Morgan Stanley brokers coming to Raymond James if it is such a great place to work.  Proprietary funds stink.

Oct 7, 2005 1:06 pm
maybeeeeeeee:

Why then are all of the Morgan Stanley brokers coming to Raymond James if it is such a great place to work.  Proprietary funds stink.



They all are, are they? Most every wirehouse has proprietary funds. They don't get paid any more to sell them than any other fund (they did in the past) and I've yet to hear anyone but a washout say they were pressured to sell them.

Oct 7, 2005 2:08 pm

I don't think anyone was necessarily saying MWD is the best place ever.  Simply put, compared to Met, it is a stronger opp.

Oct 7, 2005 3:39 pm
mikebutler222:
maybeeeeeeee:

Why then are all of the Morgan Stanley brokers coming to Raymond James if it is such a great place to work.  Proprietary funds stink.



They all are, are they? Most every wirehouse has proprietary funds. They don't get paid any more to sell them than any other fund (they did in the past) and I've yet to hear anyone but a washout say they were pressured to sell them.



I beg to differ.  Just got a client who rolled a 401k over into a IRA at Morgan Stanley.  Guess what he was sold?  6 Morgan Stanley Mutual Funds.  B shares no less.  Are you saying that is not standard practice?  Oh, but the way, he cannot wait 7 years until he needs a distribution.  But the broker did not ask about that , just sold the funds and off he went.


It all bites you in the back end in the end.  They client should be #1.

Oct 7, 2005 4:06 pm

"I beg to differ.  Just got a client who rolled a 401k over into a IRA at Morgan Stanley.  Guess what he was sold?  6 Morgan Stanley Mutual Funds.  B shares no less.  Are you saying that is not standard practice?"


I don't want to call you a liar, but there's just no way someone at MS, or any other firm with a compliance department rolled a dollar amount larger than, say $100k into B shares (I suspect the number's much lower), proprietary or not.


You just can't do it, red flags and fireworks practically come shooting out of your computer terminal if you try it. B shares sold in an IRA require the client to sign a specific disclosure. And again, no firm that I know of pays its people more to sell proprietary funds than any other fund.


Now, if we were having this conversation a few years back, I might agree with you. I saw more than one Dean Witter account were clients held nearly $1M in Dean Witter funds and I know the broker got a 20% commission bump to sell the in house fund. Thos days are long gone.


Oct 8, 2005 12:48 am

Wow.... someone still sells B-Shares?  With C-Shares and Mutual Fund Wrap available?  Makes no sense to me.

Oct 8, 2005 4:07 pm

I am with LPL and our limit on B shares is $50,000 per client.


C shares is $500,000 limit.


20% commission for in house funds. WOW! no conflict of interest there!

Oct 8, 2005 4:11 pm
mikebutler222:

"I beg to differ.  Just got a client who rolled a 401k over into a IRA at Morgan Stanley.  Guess what he was sold?  6 Morgan Stanley Mutual Funds.  B shares no less.  Are you saying that is not standard practice?"


I don't want to call you a liar, but there's just no way someone at MS, or any other firm with a compliance department rolled a dollar amount larger than, say $100k into B shares (I suspect the number's much lower), proprietary or not.




Mike,


401k was the type of retirement plan that was rolled over...not the dollar amount.

Oct 9, 2005 12:25 am

 That's funny.

Oct 9, 2005 10:51 am

To put some rumors to rest...MWD will not allow B share purchases over $25k.  C share purchases are limited to $250k.  There are no financial incentives at MWD to purchase in house or affiliated funds.

Oct 10, 2005 7:23 am
Greenbacks:

I am with LPL and our limit on B shares is $50,000 per client.


C shares is $500,000 limit.


20% commission for in house funds. WOW! no conflict of interest there!



20% bump on the commission. meaning that non-house B shares paid 4% and in-house paid 5%. Actually, that's a 25% bump, isn't it? Those days are long gone....

Oct 10, 2005 7:24 am
Dewey Cheatham:
mikebutler222:

"I beg to differ.  Just got a client who rolled a 401k over into a IRA at Morgan Stanley.  Guess what he was sold?  6 Morgan Stanley Mutual Funds.  B shares no less.  Are you saying that is not standard practice?"


I don't want to call you a liar, but there's just no way someone at MS, or any other firm with a compliance department rolled a dollar amount larger than, say $100k into B shares (I suspect the number's much lower), proprietary or not.




Mike,


401k was the type of retirement plan that was rolled over...not the dollar amount.




You mean the investment vehicle IN THE 401K was B shares? I bet they were CDSC waived.

Oct 10, 2005 8:51 am
mikebutler222:
Dewey Cheatham:
mikebutler222:

"I beg to differ.  Just got a client who rolled a 401k over into a IRA at Morgan Stanley.  Guess what he was sold?  6 Morgan Stanley Mutual Funds.  B shares no less.  Are you saying that is not standard practice?"


I don't want to call you a liar, but there's just no way someone at MS, or any other firm with a compliance department rolled a dollar amount larger than, say $100k into B shares (I suspect the number's much lower), proprietary or not.




Mike,


401k was the type of retirement plan that was rolled over...not the dollar amount.




You mean the investment vehicle IN THE 401K was B shares? I bet they were CDSC waived.



Mike,


The original poster most likely meant that he just had a client rollover funds to him from an IRA was previously Morgan Stanley.  Apparently when these funds were originally from a 401k and with the initial rollover from the 401k to a Morgan Stanley IRA the Morgan Stanley rep placed all of the funds into 6 Morgan Stanley funds, all B shares.


Mike, 401k's often have special classes of mutual fund shares that are reserved for the institutional size transactions that retirement plan trustees usually make.  As such, their share classes are usually not A, B, or C shares.

Oct 10, 2005 10:04 am
Dewey Cheatham:
mikebutler222:
Dewey Cheatham:
mikebutler222:

"I beg to differ.  Just got a client who rolled a 401k over into a IRA at Morgan Stanley.  Guess what he was sold?  6 Morgan Stanley Mutual Funds.  B shares no less.  Are you saying that is not standard practice?"


I don't want to call you a liar, but there's just no way someone at MS, or any other firm with a compliance department rolled a dollar amount larger than, say $100k into B shares (I suspect the number's much lower), proprietary or not.




Mike,


401k was the type of retirement plan that was rolled over...not the dollar amount.




You mean the investment vehicle IN THE 401K was B shares? I bet they were CDSC waived.



Mike,


The original poster most likely meant that he just had a client rollover funds to him from an IRA was previously Morgan Stanley.  Apparently when these funds were originally from a 401k and with the initial rollover from the 401k to a Morgan Stanley IRA the Morgan Stanley rep placed all of the funds into 6 Morgan Stanley funds, all B shares.



That was my understanding too. As I explained, that roll-over out of the 401k and into an IRA with 6 MS funds must have been a while ago as the rules have changed at most firms, making that trade a compliance no-no.


Dewey Cheatham:

Mike, 401k's often have special classes of mutual fund shares that are reserved for the institutional size transactions that retirement plan trustees usually make.  As such, their share classes are usually not A, B, or C shares.



Often, but not always. I've seen 401ks assembled with load waive A shares and CDSC waived B shares. The expense ratios are higher to the client and the broker that set up the plan gets a big one-time ticket. Granted, that tactic is much more common with smaller sized retirement plans.