Average AUM req. for 1st year?

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Jun 15, 2005 8:33 pm

 


What are the average AUM requirements for first year producers at most firms? 


AUM for second year?


What does that equate to in earnings on average?


 


How does insurance products factor into AUM?    Have heard differing thoughts on this and wondering how say a  $500k whole life policy would factor into AUM or even if it would?


Thank you all.


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Jun 15, 2005 8:46 pm

Logan, I don't know what firm minimums are at any firm.  But let me share the best piece of advice I have in this vein; don't even ask.  Just put your head down and do the absolute best you can.  Flat out, all day,every day.  Focus on meeting people and asking for the order.


I've seen it happen where rookies get into that "minimum" mindset, and that's where they live.  The last three days of the selling month, they're running aound like crazy, and that's no way to live.


So ignore the minimums, and don't get to thinking that "I've made the minimum this month, so I'll sandbag for next month".


You'll be surprised at what you can do.


Best of luck to ya!

Jun 15, 2005 8:57 pm

Point well taken Starka.<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />



Yet to enter field and at this time trying to gain insight on what the "norms" are so to say.  My first experience (MetLife) was an eye opener and promised myself to be more diligent in the future.  As such like to know what would be expected of me and what I can expect to earn if I hit the numbers my first two-three years.


Thanks all.

Jun 15, 2005 9:25 pm

I know at Merrill Lynch it is 7.5 million 1st yr, 15 million by end of
second year.  If you hit your marks for the first 3 years you will
be making around 80-100k. 



A POA (trainee) in my office just landed a 40 million dollar 401k
deal.  Killed his marks with one shot.  It can be done.
     

Jun 15, 2005 9:28 pm

Just out of curiousity, do they re-set the marks when that happens?  For the life of me, I can't see a firm letting a rookie hit a home run, then doing below average after that.

Jun 15, 2005 9:43 pm

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "re-setting the marks".  The marks don't re-set.



What would lead you to believe he would do below average after
that?  If he has the game to close that deal he can probably close
everything he touches.  

Jun 15, 2005 9:49 pm

I saw it happen at Jones.  Guy came out of the gate with a couple of big hits, and a year later he was gone because he'd done nothing else.


I'm not suggesting anything about your guy...just asking.

Jun 15, 2005 10:06 pm

A couple big hits then nothing at all?  That sucks...makes you
wonder if this industry is more about luck than anything else. 
Looks like his luck ran out real quick then I guess!

Jun 15, 2005 10:12 pm

In a way, I'm glad I didn't luck out like that when I was starting.  You know how that "enough for one day" thinking can take hold. 

Jun 15, 2005 10:15 pm

Any have numbers on AGE?

Jun 15, 2005 10:36 pm

As long as you bring in 6 M 1st yr and another 6 M second year you will be fine....

Jun 16, 2005 3:34 pm

How does insurance factor into AUM? 


 Have seen conflicting statements.



Thanks

Jun 16, 2005 7:08 pm

My firm does not included insurance with AUM. Not the cash value, not the face amount. From a comp standpoint, it is simply a way to place another product to further strengthen the relationship, obviously satisfy their need/concern, and for the rep to make a couple bucks.. And the payout is horrible, so a few reps I know dont even bother, which I think is a mistake because it opens up the chance for some insurance rep to swoop in and starting picking off assets....

Jun 16, 2005 7:43 pm

As always thanks to all who replied.

Jun 16, 2005 10:58 pm
Starka:

I saw it happen at Jones.  Guy came out of the
gate with a couple of big hits, and a year later he was gone because
he'd done nothing else.


I'm not suggesting anything about your guy...just asking.





I don't think this is the same as the ML POA who landed the 40 Mil 401
(k).  If you land a nice deal like that and cannot grow from
there, you should get out. 



Besides all of that...How many rookies at Jones (or any other regional
or Indy) gets a deal like that?  This is a nice example of a
benefit of working for a large firm with the resources to target nice
sized clients without the piles of personal experience to get it (ML is
the best for this).   Working for Merrill Lynch (or the likes
of Smith Barney) a young rep can make a contact, fly in a shooter to
help, and be manageing 40 million dollars.  There are tons of
these deals out there, but only for those willing to go get them.

Jun 17, 2005 7:32 am
rightway:



Besides all of that...How many rookies at Jones (or any other regional
or Indy) gets a deal like that?  This is a nice example of a
benefit of working for a large firm with the resources to target nice
sized clients without the piles of personal experience to get it (ML is
the best for this).   Working for Merrill Lynch (or the likes
of Smith Barney) a young rep can make a contact, fly in a shooter to
help, and be manageing 40 million dollars.  There are tons of
these deals out there, but only for those willing to go get them.





He's exactly right regarding the benefits of working for places like
Merrill or Smith Barney--you should also add UBS and Wachovia to the
list of strong retail houses where there is the large collection of
support.  The benefit of having "shooters" available cannot be
overstated.



Smaller firms also have them--it's just that the cients are far less
likely to even entertain the possibility of doing this type of business
with a small firm.



It is also almost impossible to prospect for this type of
business--when those types of accounts are moved it happens because
somebody told an underling, "I've decided that the pension fund is
going to be moved to Merrill, my sister's son was hired there and he's
going to be the broker of record for the account.  He will be here
with some other Merrill people (shooters) on Friday.  We'll be
meeting in the small conference room at 10:30, you and Paul clear your
calendars."



The ability to cause that to happen is the ONLY reason to hire a young
person.  Is it fair?  Maybe not, but it's the way it is.



When you're older the "........my sister's son...." can be replaced
with "....my best friend....." or any of dozens of reasons that MATURE
people do business with other MATURE people.



++++++




It is also a hell of a lot more involved than being willing to go out
and get the business.  There are hundreds of considerations--not
the least of which is the odd thing that affected Enron, a period of
time (just a week or so) when the plan is in limbo as it is moved from
one place to another.  In the case of Enron that happened to be
when several people wanted to sell their vested shares and they were
unable to do so.  Managers are keenly aware of that issue and as a
result seem to be less willing to switch.  My point here is that
sometimes there are factors in play that don't make sense--to anybody
but the person who is making the decision and you can sit there and
drive yourself nuts wondering why you can't get the guy from point A to
point B.  He just ain't gonna go there, regardless of what you say
or do.



But let's get back on point.  That being that this type of
business is not prospected for in traditional ways.  It's the
"serious money" that is handled very carefully.  The world of
middle aged men and women dealing with other middle aged men and
women.  If you're less than forty (or even older) you stand a
better chance of getting hit by a bus than landing one of these
accounts unless you bring something other than good looks and good BS
to the table.  A forty-five year old who took their Series 7 last
week has a better chance than a thirty-three year old who took their
test ten years ago.



++++++




Then there's the banks.  Where does that company have its
money?  Answer, at a bank.  Do they have a relationship with
a commercial lending officer right now?  You bet.  Does that
commercial lending officer have an associate (shooter) who will be more
than happy to discuss managing the pension fund?  Do big bears
schidt in the woods?



How about the long standing relationship with The Guardian--or
Northwestern Mutual, etc.--who handles the group life plan, or the
group health plan?  Does the guy or gal who is working on this
year's renewal of the policy have an associate (shooter) who will be
more than happy to discuss managing the pension fund?  Does the
Pope wear a funny hat?



What causes blood to run cold in Wall Street is this.



In the eyes of the investors a firm like Merrill is not thought of when
it comes to borrowing money.  You think of banks as where to
borrow money and so does the CFO who is overseeing a pension fund along
with the day-to-day needs of his employer.  At an intellectual
level he understands that Merrill is more than a stock brokerage
firm--but he also knows that his bank is more than a bank.



He also tends to think of his banker as a professional and the guys and
gals over at Merrill as salespeople worthy of little or no respect.



At the insurance level the relationship is a bit more flexible--but
generally decisions are made based on total premium and coverages
provided.  The Acme Corporation will switch from The Guardian to
MetLife if MetLife offers more coverages for the same or less
premium.  Switching is far easier than transferring a pension fund
from one custodian to another.



Now, to a great many people (like almost 100%) a guy or gal from
Merrill is thought of as being more professional than a guy or gal from
an insurance company--BUT Merrill is not thought of as the source of
good advice about insurance.  Again, at an intellectual level it
is understood that Merrill can handle your insurance needs--but when
somebody says "Health Insurance" or "Group Life" it is almost
impossible that a possible buyer is going to think "Merrill Lynch"
instead of "MetLife."  Snoopy is even more famous than the Merrill
Bull.



++++++




The message in this is this.  I have known more than a few
potentially good stock brokers who failed because they spent their time
hunting elephants only to find out that they were not capable of
killing an elephant.



If you have the family contacts, exploit them.  If you were not
born with a silver spoon in your mouth--and most of us were not--then
understand that you're going to be wasting your time trying to get
business that will be directed to somebody who did choose their parents
correctly.



Yesterday the Forex Fraud guy mentioned that the market has created 7.5
million new millionaires.  That may be true.  And it may be
true that some of them are jerks like him--but what is not true is
this.  Jerks do not choose other jerks to manage their money.



A great many of the punks who post on this message board are
essentially worthless jerks--jackoffs who happened to have been offered
a sales job by a sales manager who went agains their better angels and
actually suggested to a punk kid that they belong in the rarified air
of holding people's futures in the palms of their hands.



Anybody under forty is too young to be credible when it comes to
"serious money" and this particular generation of under forty types has
been cursed by experiencing the worst education in the history of the
United States as well as being lulled into a ridiculous false sense of
confidence by the most non-sensical bull market since the tulips.



There are certain laws in this business.  "No tree grows forever"
is a biggie--as is "I'd rather be lucky (silver spoon) than good."
Jun 17, 2005 7:45 am

"A great many of the punks who post on this message board are essentially worthless jerks--jackoffs who happened to have been offered a sales job by a sales manager who went agains their better angels and actually suggested to a punk kid that they belong in the rarified air of holding people's futures in the palms of their hands."


****************************************************


The world of investors was truly blessed when you yourself as a worthless jackoff found yourself being plucked from that same rarified production air before you could do much more damage, to be elevated to your current clerkship position.


Now, of course, you're a worthless jackoff with a better cubicle!  (Closer to the rest room, anyway.  At your advanced age, that's important!)

Jun 17, 2005 7:48 am
Starka:

"A great many of the punks who post on this message
board are essentially worthless jerks--jackoffs who happened to have
been offered a sales job by a sales manager who went agains their
better angels and actually suggested to a punk kid that they belong in
the rarified air of holding people's futures in the palms of their
hands."


****************************************************


The world of investors was truly blessed when you yourself as a
worthless jackoff found yourself being plucked from that same rarified
production air before you could do much more damage, to be elevated to
your current clerkship position.


Now, of course, you're a worthless jackoff with a better
cubicle!  (Closer to the rest room, anyway.  At your advanced
age, that's important!)





Envison Starka standing there stomping his foot and screaming, "Stop talking about me!"

Jun 17, 2005 9:40 am

You asked me a question, I gave you an answer.  That's the way it works in the real world, sonny.  (I call you "sonny" because of your "sunny" disposition.)

Jun 17, 2005 11:25 am
Starka:

You asked me a question, I gave you an answer. 
That's the way it works in the real world, sonny.  (I call you
"sonny" because of your "sunny" disposition.)





Asked you a question?  Where?  What?



What I said was there is an extraordinary number of losers on this
message board and you jumped right in there with the message board
equivalent of "Stop talking about me!"



You're the soul who keeps whining that I'm not showing respect.  I
am not positive but I think you are a Negro and as a Negro you have
that "He be disrespecting me" chip as big as Dallas on your shoulder.



Perhaps I'm wrong about your race, but I'm not wrong about your
tendency to jump in at every opportunity to whine about not being
respectful of those of your ilk.



You're right, I'm not.  You're a clown who has no right to be in this business--somebody's hiring mistake.