Ice,you're not coming off very moderator like in this post. Did I hit a nerve?     [quote=iceco1d][quote=BondGuy]     We can start with something that is often mentioned as so important on this site; education. Obama graduated from Columbia with a degree in political science and earned a law degree from harvard where he graduated magna cum laude.   Great.  If that doesn't scream "typical politician" then I don't know what else does.  Poli Sci major w/ a law degree?  Come on!  Talk about "same old, same old!" Point missed! His degrees show a level of accomplishment. That they are tough degrees to earn and he earned at least one with distinction tells us he is a doer who can acheive goals at a high level. Remember, he is interviewing for a job, we have on make judgements on the exibits we can see. No different than if he we were interviewing him for a job in our practice. What does his education tell us about the man?   His degrees will help him greatly in DC, where, by knowing how the system works(he has a degree in that) will better enable him to accomplish his goals.   Speaking of education and "magna cum laude."  Everytime someone comes on this site talking about their GPA and their education..well, I don't need to tell you how they are greeted.  Why is it that all of a sudden, GPA and an Ivy League degree make you qualified to be President?   It doesn't. However, if before you stood two candidates for a position in your practice, both otherwise equalty qualified would gpa or school choice enter into your hiring decision? Again, this shows a level of accomplishment.   Palin earned a degree in jounalism from University of Idaho.   Is there a problem with the field of Journalism?  Or is the University of Idaho NOT a competent school?    I'm sure UoI is a fine school. Does it matter?  Unless Palin writes her own speeches her degree is useless in DC. Her degree is useless practically everywhere. She found that out, used it and her good looks for a short time, and then moved on.   I went to a state school for my bachelor's and master's degrees.  I have plenty of friends that went to private schools.  I have some friends that even went to Ivy league schools.  I feel "outclassed" by exactly ZERO of them.    Yet to an interviewer you'd be out classed by everyone of them.   Once again, why, all of a sudden, does a diploma from an "elite" school, or a high GPA, make you qualified for the position of "Commander in Chief?"   However, using George Bush's C minus college record as a guide, Palin's lightweight education credentials will probably work in her favor.   George Bush has an MBA from Harvard...once again, why does the school matter?  In fact, at state schools, if you fail, you fail.  There is no ass kissing.  You either do the work, or you fail out.  More retards "slip through the cracks" at private schools than anywhere else in life, simply because their daddy may have built the new wing on the library, or paid for the renovation of the auditorium.    Ice, one look at this country and you see what happens when we have a life long underacheiver as Prez. Obama wasn't a laggart who was kept in school by a rich daddy. Implying he was makes you come off uninformed.   While Obama was busy leading a community service organzation, serving as a law profeesor, and then as a Illinios State Senator, Palin was busy running a snowmobile business with her husband and being a part time fisherman. The more I write about her, the more impressed i become!   That is an obvious belittlement of Palin.  So what?  How many of US are leaders in a community service organization?  Whoopty freakin' doo.  A law professor?  Awesome.  I know plenty of professor, including law profs, that I wouldn't trust to watch my house for the weekend, let alone run the country.  And an "Illinois State Senator?"  Really.  I know my local state Senator, and my local State Rep...and neither of them are qualified in any way to run the country.  They lobby for money to build monuments in our district.  Or clean up the local parks.  Not negotiate with Iran.    Not a beliitlement of Palin. Only the facts about her resume. She ran what would equate to in the lower 48 states, a lawn mower repair business. A small mom and pop business. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact it's quintessential Alaska. But as a business, even when compared to other powersports dealers/servicers she was small. But again, not the point, which you once again missed.   Barak used his education to help others, not himself. He worked to better peoples lives and he worked in a working class environment to do it.   All of the things you listed for Obama a) Are on the resume of every god damn politician in Washington, and b) Look real fancy when you say/type them, but not all that relevant to the job of President. Actually a degree in Politcal Science is very relevant.   By the way, since when did running a small business become something that should be shameful?    Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate in 1996.   Once again, that's a completely different job than President.  I live in Pennsylvania.  My local State Senator was a CUSTODIAL SUPERVISOR at a local power plant, prior to getting elected.  Awesome.  Maybe he should run too?   And again with the reading comprehension issues. The relevancy of Obama's state senate experience is in it's educational value to run a government. He understands how to get things done in a legislative arena. He's done it for years. Being prez isn't just about having a vision, it's about acheiving the vision. Unfortunately, with our system of government, that means playing politics. I don't like it either, but it is the way it is.   By the way, Illinois has a population of almost 13,000,000 people. Obama was then elected to the U.S. Senate in 2004. Obama serves on the Foreign relations committee. He also serves on the committees for health , education,labor, and pensions as well as the committee for Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, and the committee for Veterans' Affairs.   So we are glorifying committees now?  Once again, when did we start citing these as positives?  Sounds like career politics to me..."business as usual."   To those of who understand the relevancy it's very important.   You might note that on his recent overseas trip he received a Presidential welcome where ever he went.   Did you expect him to visit locations where he would receive a hostile reception?   At least one of his stops wasn't a German market. Ice, what does presidential reception mean? The places he went, tens of thousands of people turned out ot cheer him. Why do you suppose that is?   There is no question he has the right stuff to repair our damaged foreign policys and restore our more severely damaged image.   I have plenty of doubts about it.  Moreover, his ineptitude WILL be "front and center" if elected.  Palin's only MIGHT BE "front and center" if McCain wins.  And even then, not certainly for a full presidential term.   At this point in his presidential campaign, when compared to either George Bush or Bill Clinton on the eve of their first push for president, he has more foreign policy/foreign relations experience than both of them put together.   That is a flat out lie, and you know it.    I don't like being called a liar. Especially by someone who can't keep up with the debate. But, i'll listen. Ice, tell me exactly what was George Bush's and Bill Clinton's foriegn policy/ relations experience  prior to taking office? And in the words of Rugby, be specific. And I will add, good luck in your search!   Palin was elected mayor of a small town of 5 to 8,000 people depending on sources, and then found her way to the Governor's office where she presides over a state with a population of 600,000.   Where did Obama start his political career?  Directly to State senator? Yes I doubt it.  And even if he did, that's a moot point.  Most politicians start out as a town/city councilman/woman, mayor, etc.    Why knock someone for starting at ground zero?    So what about Alaska's population?  The situation of that state presents numerous unique challenges...just because it's small, I'm sure it's no "cake walk."  Environmental and energy concerns are paramount.  Supporting a working infrastructure throughout [inhabited parts of] the USA's largest state, on a limited budget?  Basically bordering 2 foreign countries?  Most diverse climate profile of the country?  Historically high prices.  And I'm sure plenty of other challenges.    Relatively speaking it is a cakewalk. Alaska politics could appropriatly be described as Bush League. My county has a larger population than Alaska. My state has 12 times it's population and only a small fraction of its land mass. One doesn't govern land, one governs people.     She has used the "But she's hot" view of her to cover for her lack of cred for most of her life including her ride to the governors office.   I don't think she's ever used the words "I'm hot" to further her political career.  You can blame the media for that one, not her.   I don't know that she's ever used those words. However, her looks are a wedge issue.   The truth is we don't know enough about her yet. We only know what the repub spin machine is putting out.   That's all we know about ANY politician.  We don't know shit about politicians.  Their job is to be the person that they think will garner the most votes.    Still, there is enough to draw some conclusions. Chief among what is known is this: The repub right is big on hearth and family. The family values conservative right woman are supposed to put nurture above ambition.   Sexist much?   Ice, not my view, but that of the party you want to keep in the Whitehouse. Personally i disagree with the view that woman should stay home and take care of the babies. However, for the conservative right to push Palin on us as the woman of the year smacks of Hypocracy in light of their family first agenda. Which is well known.   Another smack of hypacracy is the white conservative male republican powerbase coming out in support of Palin after spending much of the last year, while in anti Hillary mode, telling us a woman has no business in the Whitehouse.   Woman,  are supposed to put family above all else   x2   . Here we have a woman who is being nominated for sainthood   I must have missed that proposal?   by the anti abortion right  for her decision to have a downs syndrome child. Something, I agree was a brave decision. Yet, now she going to leave that child for large swaths of time to run for the second highest office in the country. Clearly she is putting that child second to her own ambition.   Give me a break.  It is no more or less "dishonorable" or "wrong" for her to dedicate 4 years of her life to the office of Vice President than it is for Obama to do so and put his family on the "back burner" as you are implying.    Again you are missing the point, which is the hypocracy of the party and of Palin herself if she pushes family values. it is the party that pushes woman belong at home with the family.   Her child has downs syndrome, not terminal cancer in its final stages.   She's so busy being a governnor/veep candidate caring for the baby is not her problem. Cold, yes, true? But that's how it reads Ice.   I know a woman with a downs syndrome child that has to work 2 jobs (65+ hours minimum per week) to support her family; that makes her no less of a mother.    If elected, the requirements of the office will put that child as well as her entire family second. She is saying one thing and doing another. The hypocracy is glaring.   Give me a break.  This hypocracy in this conversation is the only thing that is glaring.    Obama is the candidate for the Middle Class?  Yea, if I were a 3rd shift factory worker, I'm sure I could really relate to a guy with a Harvard Law degree...and I'm sure he knows "what it's like" to live in "Middle Class America."  Give me a break.   Should we elect a third shift factory worker for president?   Oh yea, 35 years ago, he ate grasshoppers for dinner in Kenya.  Awesome.   Who's belittlinging now?   Then there is this about McCain: he has spent the last 2 months harping that Obama is ill equipped to face the challenges that face America today. Then what does he do? He picks a running mate that is obviously ill equipped to run the country.   She won't be running the country.  He will.   Until he bites the big one. Then what? We'll have a snowmobile repair woman running the country. But she's hot!   Obama's experience can be debated. As mentioned, today he carries more foreign policy experience than either did Clinton or Bush prior to their first terms.   BG, that's just a first-class lie man.  And you know it.    Assume I'm from Missouri   And, he made a wise choice of running mate. Someone who helps him greatly on foriegn policy.   I thought he had plenty of foreign policy experience on his own?    That choice was presidential.  Or at least showed great leadership. By the way, I'm not  Biden fan. I think he's a JO. Back on McCain, considering his words downing Obama's lack of cred, his choice makes no sense. Not a presidential choice. In fact a dangerous choice that shows lack of judgement.   Neither Palin or Obama are as experienced as a "typical" VP or Pres candidate.  I'd rather have the less-experienced candiate as my VP than the leader of the free world...if we are using "on paper" "experience" as a requisite.   So with the republicans we have A woman telling us she puts her family first while clearly putting them second and a man who tell us we need experienced leaders while picking an inexpereinced person for a top leadership position. Since i don't own "Republican For Dummys," as the convention gets started this week, should I listen to what they say or watch what they do? Clearly, there is a vast expanse between the two.   I'd probably continue to ignore the same faults in your preferred candidate and continue to attempt to belittle and focus on the faults of the opposing party.  Actually, BG, in this case, perhaps you should just campaign for president?  Your post sounds like typical politics 101 to me.   Hey, i'm just talking here, you have no idea who my preferred candidate is.   Palin has no business being on the ticket, but she's hot!   Neither does Obama, and he's not!  (well, maybe women think he is, I dunno).      This is not a debate between who is more qualified, Palin or Obama. Obama won't even mention Palin's name.   He's so cool.  I think it would be trendy to have a black president!  Oh shit, that's the exact reason he's on the ticket, I forgot.   [/quote] [/quote]

Rugby:

This pick will certainly not sway entrenched Obama supporters like you…undecided and independents is what the election is about  gong forward.

This will be a great argument in the next few months leading up to the election and it will be fun to debate.  Obama on his way to make history just got a real curveball in obtaining women and blue collar voters that are scratching their heads about his experience, background, heritage, preacher, associations…
In hindsight he should have picked a women (HRC or perhaps a woman Gov. with executive experience of a state with an acceptable population level).  To say that by picking Biden was a good call it and it was presidential etc…etc…is tough to buy.  It was a political pick, just as McCain picking Palin…Biden is a crackpot who has been on the wrong sides of every vote for his too long tenure in Washington.  He is however, older, white, and has foreign policy experience.
Does the country need the status quo?  (2) senators, Biden - Obama is looking a little like same old, same old…luckily for the Dem. ticket, Obama has only been there for a short while and has spent most of his time campaigning for the POTUS.  

An interesting dynamic is developing and the “Change” Obama supporters want the change, but want it with all the trappings of the status quo:   Harvard educations, career politicians, political hierarchies, political machines and the candidates that they produce. 

Ask any blue collar worker in OH, PA, LA who they identify with…Sarah Palin and her husband/family or Barack and Michelle Obama?   The Obama’s with their Princeton, Columbia, Harvard degrees…and jobs obtained in non-profit sector,  community organizing, state senator…Michelle’s 300k yr. job as a non-profit hospital admin???  I’m surprised BG, having run your own business yourself and as a lover of motorized toys I thought you would be more impressed with the Palins.

This will be a fascinating election.  Status quo, who is really for change, race, gender etc…Tim Russert must be smiling in heaven.

  Entrenched Obama supporter? me? Far from it. I just come off as such by speaking the truth.   I'm a McCain guy from way back. Drank the cool-aid, got the T shirt. Problem is he's got the repub party on his back. While down here at ground level we are suffering, things are just fine at party central. They want to maintain the staus quo. Painting their party as one for the everyman is a joke, but they're giving it a shot.   And yes a vote for Obama will increase my taxes. Happy about that? Nope, but I can afford it. So, for now i'll watch and see how things play out. How will i vote? For now i'm undecided. I will say though, that McCain's veep pick may have sealed the deal for me. We'll see. One thing that keeps me from Obama is Biden. I really don't like the guy.

[/quote]

  Entrenched Obama supporter? me? Far from it. I just come off as such by speaking the truth.   I'm a McCain guy from way back. Drank the cool-aid, got the T shirt. Problem is he's got the repub party on his back. While down here at ground level we are suffering, things are just fine at party central. They want to maintain the staus quo. Painting their party as one for the everyman is a joke, but they're giving it a shot.   And yes a vote for Obama will increase my taxes. Happy about that? Nope, but I can afford it. So, for now i'll watch and see how things play out. How will i vote? For now i'm undecided. I will say though, that McCain's veep pick may have sealed the deal for me. We'll see. One thing that keeps me from Obama is Biden. I really don't like the guy.[/quote]

You are undecided?  I guess I am as well and am leaning one way.     Obama came out today and said alot of people will be waiting until October to choose.  I think he is right and we should all wait until the debates to get a sense how both of these tickets are going to changes things in D.C.  The specifics of "change" from both of these campaigns should decide this election.  Obama's speech last week did not sell me on that he is the guy to do this.  Alot of promises....how do you do it though?  McCain-Palin are tossing rhetoric as well.

Perhaps the debate of resumes, experience, education credentials of both sides is a futile and useless exercise.  These are our choices and one of them is a better pick for the country regardless of the path they took to ticket. 

The poll numbers are not showing the Obama bounce he should have gotten out of the convention, although he may have proven he is presidential material.  Let the debates of both side's ideas and how they implement change decide who we vote for...The interesting development is that voters are hungry for specifics and voter detection of rhetoric and BS will not get you elected. 

Rugby, for the most part agree with you.

  However, when you speak of how both candidates will change things in DC you've got to remember that Mccain wasn't talking change until he saw Obama's polling numbers. Now, he too is a "Change" candidate. Change is playing big on mainstreet this election season. Gee, I wonder why?   McCain has the far tougher road in this regard. His party, or at least it's leaders and backroom players are just fine with the way things are.  So McCain has to be a consumate politician, talk change but not PO the party fathers.   Where does Palin stand on creationism? If she believes the earth is more than 10,000 years old, it wouldn't necessarily be a point in her favor, but at least it wouldn't be a point against her. And, on that count,  I'll give McCain a gold star for not picking Huckabee  

A few random (and at times, partisan) thoughts after catching up from my mini-vacation…

  1.  It's neither truth nor a lie that Obama has more foreign policy experience than the last two presidents...it's simply a matter of perspective and opinion.  I do think that it's a long stretch to say he has even close to the amount that his opponent has.   2.  Biden does have some baggage...I don't see anyone disagreeing with that.  His 1988 presidential candidacy was undone by an admitted charge of plagiarism and pretty much lying about his academic success and scholarships (he graduated 76th of 85).  Here's the skinny on Joe... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden ...see 1988 campaign section for what I reference.   3.  Hats off to Obama for stating that a child's pregnancy is off limits...and thumbs down to the blogs that tried to make an issue of it.   4.  It's fairly obvious to me after hearing her, that governor Palin is a very intelligent, well-spoken lady.  It's presumptuous to conclude that she is unfit for the office of president.  It's easy and partisan to say that running Alaska is a piece of cake, but it's apparent that she's taken the task seriously and the early results appear promising.   5.  Palin has been involved in politics/public service since being elected to her city council in 1992.  Source is the weekend WSJ page A7.  That's hardly just running a lawn mower repair business.   6.  McCain's pick is certainly in line with his maverick reputation.  Sure, most GOP politicos are playing nice at the moment, but there's little doubt many of them would have preferred a "safe" selection.  There are plenty of rumors that McCain overruled several advisors in his own campaign in picking Palin.   7.  Of course, Obama was well-received in Europe.  He is the anti-war candidate, a view that is shared with great enthusiasm by most Europeans.  The way things are now playing out in Iraq, I doubt if either candidate will need to leave many troops there for much longer anyway.  I'm just not sure that I'm ready for Europeans, who have their own issues, telling us who our president should be.   8.  In times like this, I miss Mike Butler...

Just to make this post not so serious----

You know the thing that I thought was most interesting with BG's post?! The comment that Sarah Palin was HOT. Sorry, but I just don't get it. I think she is fantastic and I wouldn't change her looks, but I don't in any way see her as a sex symbol. I mean, Paris Hilton is hot. Jessica Alba is hot. But Sarah Palin?   BG's top 5 Women List:   1) Sarah Palin 2) Martha Stewart 3) The Lady with the crazy, big, black glasses in the Old Navy Commercial. 4) Hil. Clinton 5) Barbara Walters    

Fair enough.  While many minds here will probably go unchanged as a result of political threads, I like the exchange of information/propaganda and want to be an informed voter. Thus, I welcome the debate.

On a separate note, a reporter on one of the networks just referred to the New Orleans mayor as Mayor Nager (and then quickly corrected himself)...wonder what he was thinking...

[quote=Indyone]A few random (and at times, partisan) thoughts after catching up from my mini-vacation…

 
2.  Biden does have some baggage...I don't see anyone disagreeing with that.  His 1988 presidential candidacy was undone by an admitted charge of plagiarism and pretty much lying about his academic success and scholarships (he graduated 76th of 85).  Here's the skinny on Joe... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden ...see 1988 campaign section for what I reference.  [/quote]

This was the smarter of the (2) VP picks according to BG?  I can't see it.   Also, Bill Clinton highest praise of Obama was that "he hit it out of the park with this pick" in his speech last week?  Tough to craft defensive talking points on Biden after reading his bio.  Can't believe he would even be considered as a candidate after his crash and burn in the late 80s.  This smells like a some sort of trap for Obama and it really is tough to defend Biden's selection as a smart move for Obama.  A underachieving, plagiarist, career politician a heartbeat away from the highest office?

Maybe the Clintons set him up for failure with this one.

Interesting selection for John McCain even with the recently released situation on her personal family situation. I do agree that Obama made not only the right political choice as well as the right personal choice that discussions on her family situation are " off limits ".

As for the Democrats claiming her lack of Leadership roles....she was/is the Governor of Alaska. Biden and McCain have extensive leadership roles in Washington. If leadership is the issue....Obama would be the LEAST qualified to become President. On that note , it appears that Canadians will be heading to the Polls in October to either re-elect the Conservatives or bring back the Liberals. The same issues taxation and the economy versus environment and increasing taxes.

[quote=Indyone]A few random (and at times, partisan) thoughts after catching up from my mini-vacation…

  1.  It's neither truth nor a lie that Obama has more foreign policy experience than the last two presidents...it's simply a matter of perspective and opinion.  I do think that it's a long stretch to say he has even close to the amount that his opponent has.   Agree, that McCain has more FP exp than does Obama. I like McCain, he is a good man, and truth be told would make a good president. That said, my comments about Clinton/Bush's FP exp is not opinion or pov, it's fact. You can dispute that if you like, but you'd be wrong.   2.  Biden does have some baggage...I don't see anyone disagreeing with that.  His 1988 presidential candidacy was undone by an admitted charge of plagiarism and pretty much lying about his academic success and scholarships (he graduated 76th of 85).  Here's the skinny on Joe... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden ...see 1988 campaign section for what I reference.   As said i'm not a Biden fan, but not because of this. The speech plagiarism was a minor gaff in which he didn't cite the a source that he had cited many times before while giving essentially the same campaign speech. The thing was blown out of proportion, which is what happens during campaigns. As for the law school thing. Yeah, somewhat problematic. However, that the highest court in his state gave him a pass tells me that we have to give him the benefit of a doubt on that one. Not enough evidence to convict. Note that the repubs aren't using it.   3.  Hats off to Obama for stating that a child's pregnancy is off limits...and thumbs down to the blogs that tried to make an issue of it.   Agree, taking the high road, by both candidates is refreshing. Any bets as to how long it lasts?   4.  It's fairly obvious to me after hearing her, that governor Palin is a very intelligent, well-spoken lady.  It's presumptuous to conclude that she is unfit for the office of president.  It's easy and partisan to say that running Alaska is a piece of cake, but it's apparent that she's taken the task seriously and the early results appear promising.   The better question to ask is "Is she most highly qualified candidate the republicans could come up with?" Even if we limit the choice to women, that's not the case. The republican party is chock full of articulate, smart, and qualified female candidates. McCain, vetted Palin, then after interviewing her for 15 minutes selected her. By the way, against advice of some of his handlers. Why pass over far more qualified candidates?       5.  Palin has been involved in politics/public service since being elected to her city council in 1992.  Source is the weekend WSJ page A7.  That's hardly just running a lawn mower repair business.   Indy come on, city council? 8000 people! Her local government experience is a joke when used as a qualifier. The biggest problem her town faced was whether or not there would be enough snow for the annual snow mobile races. Like most Alaska towns they've got more cash than they can spend and not enough people to give it to.   Compare that to my town of 80,000 people, where my wife was on town council for ten years. During her tenure the town council didn't raise taxes. That's ten years without a tax increase. Services were increased, parks were built, and community service programs flourished. Our town attracted residents and businesses in droves, built a 20 million dollar library that is the envy of city librarys.  Under her tenure her policies brought large corporations to our town including the American headquarters of a major auto manufacturer. Her tenure saw the lowest office/retail vacancy rate in the town's history. This was all done as the state and county reduced their financial aid to our town by 50% over those ten years. Using this as a qualifier, a town with a large population, large budget, large payroll, and yearly reduced outside help my wife and her fellow council members are more qualified for Veep than Palin. Yet, none is qualified for veep. Still I'd vote for my wife in a second and she is hot!!!!!!!!     6.  McCain's pick is certainly in line with his maverick reputation.  Sure, most GOP politicos are playing nice at the moment, but there's little doubt many of them would have preferred a "safe" selection.  There are plenty of rumors that McCain overruled several advisors in his own campaign in picking Palin.   He should have listened to them. Apparently there is more smoke coming from Palin's legislative investigation and McCain has sent investigators back to Alaska. Personally, I hope this doesn't blow up, but after a 15 minute interview...   7.  Of course, Obama was well-received in Europe.  He is the anti-war candidate, a view that is shared with great enthusiasm by most Europeans.  The way things are now playing out in Iraq, I doubt if either candidate will need to leave many troops there for much longer anyway.  I'm just not sure that I'm ready for Europeans, who have their own issues, telling us who our president should be.   The point wasn't that they loved Obama. The point is just how damaged our image is. By the way, the Europeans told us before the Iraq invasion that our government was lying to us. So, while i agree the election is our decision to make, don't write off what the rest of the world thinks or says. The planet ain't as big as it use to be.   8.  In times like this, I miss Mike Butler...   Yeah, me too![/quote]

[quote=iceco1d][quote=BondGuy]

  Did I hit a nerve?  [/quote]   Not until your last post you didn't.  [/quote]   Still waiting for proof of Bush/Clinton pre 1st term FR experience. Get back to me when you've got something to say.

[quote=lady_trader]

Just to make this post not so serious----

You know the thing that I thought was most interesting with BG's post?! The comment that Sarah Palin was HOT. Sorry, but I just don't get it. I think she is fantastic and I wouldn't change her looks, but I don't in any way see her as a sex symbol. I mean, Paris Hilton is hot. Jessica Alba is hot. But Sarah Palin?   BG's top 5 Women List:   1) Sarah Palin 2) Martha Stewart 3) The Lady with the crazy, big, black glasses in the Old Navy Commercial. Margan faichild? 4) Hil. Clinton 5) Barbara Walters    [/quote]   They are all accomplished women. All but Clinton unqualified for executive office.   Just so you know, the hot comment, not mine. That's the book on Palin. Her looks have always been an issue. That I repeat it here is only to make a point, that it is a wedge issue. However, feel free to shoot the messenger.

[quote=iceco1d][quote=BondGuy][quote=iceco1d][quote=BondGuy]

  Did I hit a nerve?  [/quote]   Not until your last post you didn't.  [/quote]   Still waiting for proof of Bush/Clinton pre 1st term FR experience. Get back to me when you've got something to say.[/quote]   Sorry BG,   I'm not going to participate in a debate or converstaion where the counterparty feels they need to speak down to me in condescending fashion.   You can have this point, and all the rest for that matter.  [/quote]   Ice, not so fast there chief! You called me a liar. In fact you called me a liar twice. So, what's the deal here, you can dish it but not take it? How much more degrading can one get than calling someone a liar?   Ice, you were amped up in that post. That much was obvious to me. Thus my opening comment about hitting a nerve. And maybe you meant to say my comment wasn't true. Which could be consrtued as maybe I've got my facts wrong and you're calling me on it. But you didn't say that. You said that I was lying. You don't get a pass on that.   How did you expect me to react?   There are times I do have my facts wrong. And I don't mind being called on those mistakes. I've come back to this board more than once with my tail between my legs to apologize for something I got wrong, or to correct it. But i'm not going to let you or anyone question my integrity. In fact it is that integrity that allows me to admit my mistakes and lay them bare if need be.   That you come back to this thread with an attitude that you won't be talked down to after calling me a liar is insulting and quite frankly takes a lot of balls. A better way to go would have been to admit you were wrong and then apologize directly to me. Instead you come back with attitude.   As for the point, if you could have proved it you would have. You are wrong. Note how I'm able to say you are wrong without calling you names or questioning your integrity.   Good luck in your new moderator status.    

Having read your rejoinder, BG, I decided against engaging in the ever-lengthening point/counterpoint posts (which I'm guessing get skimmed when they start getting so long).  I spent some time at lunch looking at various online news agencies and the concensus of most is that the daughter pregancy is a non-issue.  Trooper-gate may or may not get much play in the end, but I can tell you this based on what I've read thus far...the brother-in-law sounds like a loose cannon who should not be packing a gun and possessing law enforcement powers.  When all the facts are known, I'll predict that trooper-gate will not be a problem for Palin.  The spousal DUI from 20+ years ago is just typical dirt journalism as is the one time affiliation with the AIP.  I've yet to see anything of real substance and still some are already calling her Eagleton.  I call that wishful thinking.

In response to your question on whether or not she is the most qualified Republican my question is, most qualified for what?  I think she would make an excellent second in support of McCain.  She is an energetic reformer, and strong on energy policy.  Goodness knows, we need some help there.  Certainly, there are aspects of the VP job where perhaps she was not the strongest candidate, but that could probably be said for almost any candidate for the position.  You can discount her past experience, but the same concerns are valid for Obama, who has perhaps a bit more foreign policy experience, although he's been a virtual no-show in the senate the past two years.  Conversely, Palin, although she's not running for the position of president, has at least a similar advantage over Obama in executive experience that he might have over her in the area of foreign policy.  If Palin should assume the office of the president (which is a far cry less likely than Obama at this point), she would have a cabinet of advisors to aid her in governance and two powerful checks and balances in the legislative and judiciary branches.  Frankly, I'm getting well ahead of myself here.  If the medical profession can keep Dick Cheney ticking for the last 8 years, I suspect McCain will be good for at least four.  It's obvious to me that McCain is very pleased to have Palin on his team and if he's elected, I think he'll find her a very useful ally in the White House.  It is also my personal hope that if elected, he asks Mitt Romney to join him as an economic advisor.  That, in my mind, would make for a pretty effective combination.

Back to work...your turn...

[quote=Indyone]

  It is also my personal hope that if elected, he asks Mitt Romney to join him as an economic advisor.  That, in my mind, would make for a pretty effective conbination.

Back to work...your turn...[/quote]   Read this over the weekend:  http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/rip-reaganomics-revolution-1981-2011/story.aspx?guid=%7B9B24FFF5%2D8588%2D44AD%2DA59E%2D227DB7F1DCB5%7D   Secretary of Treasury is something we should all be concerned about, ya think?