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Sep 17, 2009 7:42 pm

I am an old wire guy and have a question about what you independent guys earn on annuities. I know our firm hair cuts the crap out of us. But I'm not sure to what extent I have been giving up. What do you gross on X Share? and L share Variables? and Fixed?

 
Thanks
Sep 17, 2009 8:44 pm

On variable annuities, generally:

- 7% upfront, no trails
- 4% upfront, 1% trails beginning in 13th month
- (Just did a 4 year MetLife product at 6% upfront and 1% trail beginning in year 5)
 
For fixed index annuities, generally:
- 7-9% upfront, no trails
- 1.1% annually
 
SPIA:
- 4%
 
Fixed:
- 2-5% upfront (I believe)
Sep 18, 2009 12:53 pm

ING has trail options for fixed.  Most are around 25bps that I've seen.  

Sep 18, 2009 1:57 pm
iceco1d:

Snags, have you seen any Fixed annuities that pay a trail?  I heard JNL has one that pays 25 bps in M13, but can't find it. 

 
I don't do much fixed business, but I could check and let you know.
Sep 18, 2009 2:10 pm

Jackson has one.. but the upfront is either 100bps or 50bps. Then there is a trail of 25bps... So you still end up with only 2%, don't see the point really

Sep 19, 2009 8:30 am

Thanks for the detail Snags. I see how our execs pay for their jets and year end bonuses. Unbelievable.  

Sep 20, 2009 10:35 am

Pac Life has fixed annuities with the following:

6yr surrender:
3.25% up front, .25% yr2-4, .5% yr5+

7yr surrender:
2.00% in years 5-10

Sep 21, 2009 12:24 pm
OldAndTired:

Thanks for the detail Snags. I see how our execs pay for their jets and year end bonuses. Unbelievable.  

 
What do you mean?  If you annualize it out, most annuity products pay less, sometimes substantially less, than the advisor charging a 1.5% wrap fee.
Sep 21, 2009 1:00 pm
BioFreeze:
snaggletooth:
OldAndTired:

Thanks for the detail Snags. I see how our execs pay for their jets and year end bonuses. Unbelievable.  

 
What do you mean?  If you annualize it out, most annuity products pay less, sometimes substantially less, than the advisor charging a 1.5% wrap fee.



I think he's referring to the haircuts.

 
Oh my bad, not enough coffee yet this morning.  Yeah, in that case, I'd leave the wirehouse ASAP.
Sep 22, 2009 1:01 am
iceco1d:


Couple points on this statement...

I think very rarely do you see an FA charging 1.5% and having that whole 1.5% hit his/her gross.  In the Indy world, you usually have an Admin/Program Fee + maybe even ticket charges before that 1.5% would hit your "grid." 

At a wirehouse, you may not have ticket charges or program fees, but with account minimums and average HH sizes in the 100K - 500K range, I doubt your typical wrap fee is 1.5% on accounts that size.

At EDJ, the MOST they can charge is 1.35%. 

So I'd say it's more typical to have 1 - 1.25% actually "hitting your grid" in a wrap program (less on C shares, and probably less on SMAs, too). 

So without wirehouse haircuts, VAs and EIAs typically pay significantly better than wrap if you take the smallest up front and most trailing payout options.

Just my humble observation.

 
You're probably right.  All I really know is what I do.  For wrap business, I generally charge enough to get at least 1% to my grid.  So depending on account size, I'll charge 1.5%, 1.25%, and so forth.  With C share mutual funds, it's a 1% trail to the grid.  With 4 year VA's, it's 4% upfront and 1% trail in month 13.  So that's 1.25% for years 1-4, then 1% years 5+ to the grid.  The highest commissioned FIA I use is either 9% upfront, or .90%/year averaged out over 10 years, or a 1.1% trail. 
 
In any case, I try to at least net out 1% before grid.
Sep 23, 2009 11:20 pm
snaggletooth:
OldAndTired:

Thanks for the detail Snags. I see how our execs pay for their jets and year end bonuses. Unbelievable.  

 
What do you mean?  If you annualize it out, most annuity products pay less, sometimes substantially less, than the advisor charging a 1.5% wrap fee.





I was referring to the haircuts.
Oct 11, 2009 11:16 pm

O&T - Curious...As compared to the typical L-share paying 3.5%-4% upfront and 1% trail in year two, what do you see at your wire?