"Imus - Wrong for what he said. However, that what he said is spoken and accepted on the streets in every city in the country by ordinary people speaks to the societal issues facing not only blacks but our entire society as a whole. It's become cool to "Go Ghetto" , the word "Ho", demeaning to black women, has entered the general vernacular and that's a problem." Bondguy<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Yeah, they say it everyday, so even though Imus was wrong, it's just the way that it is.

"Lyrics like "Piss on a Ho" are OK, no Sharpton, no outrage. Yet Imus is racially insensative[sic]. If that's not a double standard nothing is." Bondguy

What are they getting so upset about anyway? They got no right to be upset and Sharpton has no right to speak out for them because.. because... because....

You did nothing but add fuel to a fire. Even if it was not your INTENT to say they ought to just have toughened up it was the net result of your contribution. By distracting the focus away from what was said and insisting that the issue was about who was complaining about what was said you net subtracted from the progress that could have been made.

Ya know? Imus didn't think he was doing anything wrong at the time either. But now we know better. Don't we?

Further, try to be less literal. The point was that you were all animated on the Imus issue and then you went all aslather when someone poked a little fun your way. Talk about making yourself a victim! Someone calls BS on your first year production numbers and you act like he called your wife a nappy headed ho. He was wrong (far as we know). You have to admit, it's a very rare number for a first year broker (especially these days) and you know it or you wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place (and you'd have rounded it to 150 or 155)! You feel the need to wave it (the bloodied dressings from your insult injury) around like it's some red badge of courage from a flame war ambush? Grow up!

It is these juvenile temper tantrums that tend to poison the well. It’s when some tries to hoist themselves into a leadership position that they often wind up ahoist their own petard. Lead by example not by “spokesmanship!”

Your posts don't challenge my reading comprehension, and generally, if they would, I would give you the courtesy of asking you what you meant to say. (I would not do so over in the Imas[sic] thread because I didn't want to perpetuate that inanity.) Instead you let your solipsistic attitude tell you that it's not worth the loss of internet luster to engage someone in discussion, if you're not telling the world "what it is" then "it" must not be very important anyway! 

For those looking for a place to have at it, here http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&amp ;sid=7ed7cdd2354b5b6b21e6d5200edbad7d is a forum by the guy who did the cataloging of the typical “Netizens” and Flame Warriors.  Looks like a fun spot that is welcoming of  just that sort of shenaniganery.

I just noticed that Who... has almost 300 posts.  WTF?  If someone who isn't a rep but just wants to give us her unwanted 2 cents 300 times no wonder some of the genuinely experienced and helpful people are leaving the board.

Nothing personal Who...., but really, haven't you had enough fun being a nusiance here?  Isn't there someone else you could annoy? 

I don't care for the way Bobby does business, or Put's condecending middle management attitude, but at least they had some experience to contribute.

Thanks.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Joe,

Not for nothing, but, you know what? YOU are IMHO one of the worst offenders.

You jump in on every fight and add your snark. You perpetuate the bickering at almost every opportunity.

Don't anyone get me wrong, I don't disagree with Bondguy's assessment that there is a lot of air that could/should be let out of this forum. There are lots of threads that I (personally) don't even bother with. The Rookies and Trainees and the What's up at Firms folders are vast wastelands of Edward D Jones bashing and bickering.

Prospecting isn't a float my boat folder in that I prospect in my own way and for my own purposes (which I've described before).  It seems to have become the unofficial "Annuities: Yes or No?" folder. Once you've said your piece, what's the point?

If the powers that be won't do anything about the travesty that those folders have become how can anyone expect any of the rest of the folders to be any better?

There is another internet corralary(?) that applies in this case: The more dramatic the exit, the more likely it is that the poster will be back. It's sorta like the arsonist that can't help but be there when the fire trucks arrive.

Bondguy, we already have one of these guys  http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/royals.htm

and one is more than enough AND you don't pass the "Holy Grail" test of King... "Must be a king!" "How do you know?" "He don't got sh@ all over him!"

[/quote]

Here's why I'm here:  I like to read whomit's posts (he's my favorite) and maybe ocassionally post here.  I do not troll or interfere with topics that I feel I can't participate in. I did like to read former planrcoach's posts, bondguy and jodabrker...and hey, I'm convinced that bh isn't joe... and I even like to ready bh's posts, too when he's not purposely being a basher or smart ass.  It's too bad that bondguy and joeydabrkr want a rep only site:  have the moderators make it one!...until then, I'll post here. and I'll logon here if i so choose.  Thak u very much.  And sorry you feel that way joe.  I'm sorry that I offended you and sorry that you want to impede my rights.  I"ll go away where you are concerned.  Please don't respond to my posts and I won't respond to yours.  Deal. 

[quote=BondGuy]

One of the most wide open forums on the net use to be bikeforums.net. You think the Lance Armstrong wannabes are obnoxious on the road? Try going on a forum with them! Finally, after years of having new members driven away by bad behavior the moderators looked at their wallets and realized it had to stop. They needed new member money. The moderators stepped in and started booting people. The money thing finally outweighed the entertainment value of watching Noobs get their heads handed to them for asking which comfort bike to buy. Thus bikeforums transformed from a forum masquerading as a an informational site, to the what is now the Go-to site on the web for bicycle information. The same thing just happened on P-net. There's a message there that the moderators here haven't gotten yet.

Fact is this forum is what we make it. It can be the Go-to informational site on the web or it can continue to be what it is.

Now on to some specific responses:

BGsdog- You are an articulate person. That tells me something good about you. You probably have much positive to contribute. I'd appreciate it if you would do so under a different screen name.

Whomit - I had a hard time following your posts under your previous ID. My reading comprehension is still challenged under your new ID. I'm still trying to figure out where I said the Rutgers BB team had to toughen up? That's because I never said or implied it, not that it matters. Maybe my posts challenge your reading comprehension as well? I guess that makes us even.

BH - You are another guy who seems somewhat misdirected. Your posts are mix of good content and inappropriate content. Sometimes on the same thread.

Goforbroke - You can hang out anywhere on the web. If you're not an advisor or candidate to become one, why here?

I too have been on this forum for a long time. I changed my screen name last year to preserve my anonymity. I've taken plenty of punches here and coming of age in a tough big city board room did plenty to toughen my skin. So this isn't about my ability to take what's being thrown out here. I can dish back with the best of them. And Put was the best. This is about the senseless moronic behavior that drives the good contributors away. There's nothing wrong with a spirited debate, a difference of opinion, or even some good natured ribbing. Not to mention not to mention putting the smack down to obvious trolls like the Suze lady. But thread after thread goes down the tubes with same senseless BS. If the moderators, who apparently don't pay much attention, won't stop it, it's up to us.

What I'm saying here is I've had enough. I'm tired of it. I don't need to come here to have someone call me a liar over $154,000 of production. I don't need to come here to have someone disingenuously tell me that they parodied my screen name out of respect.

You don't have to like me. You don't have to believe me, just don't call me a liar. And don't make a joke out of the good I try to do here. It's that simple.

All of you are smart people. We could use brain power to make this a great place.

One final note, it's tax time. Everyone here make all the money they wanted to make this past year? If not, you all work in a 100% commission business, why are you wasting time here?

[/quote]

I told you guys he'd be back.

Isn’t he cute.  Of course he isn’t joedabrkr.

[quote=EDJ4now]

I just noticed that Who... has almost 300 posts.  WTF?  If someone who isn't a rep but just wants to give us her unwanted 2 cents 300 times no wonder some of the genuinely experienced and helpful people are leaving the board.

Nothing personal Who...., but really, haven't you had enough fun being a nusiance here?  Isn't there someone else you could annoy? 

I don't care for the way Bobby does business, or Put's condecending middle management attitude, but at least they had some experience to contribute.

Thanks.

[/quote]

Excuse you EDJ4Now, I have over twenty years of investment management experience and 30+ years of sales experience.

I've forgotten more than you'll ever know about trading stocks and bonds.

You want some advice? Here's some advice! The best way to avoid making mistakes is experience. The only way to get experience is to have made mistakes.

You now have made the mistake of thinking I was someone else. Hopefully this experience will  come to mind as you learn to connect brains before engaging tongue!

 I like to read whomit's posts (he's my favorite)

Of course you do.  One sock puppet talking to the other.

oh is that why?  I really didn’t know: I just thought it was because he writes well, he’s articulate, kool vocab and he seems to win just about every single debate including the one with mike buttler.  He’s not overly brutal to others either: live and let live attitude from what I can tell. 

[quote=goforbroke][quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Joe,

Not for nothing, but, you know what? YOU are IMHO one of the worst offenders.

You jump in on every fight and add your snark. You perpetuate the bickering at almost every opportunity.

Don't anyone get me wrong, I don't disagree with Bondguy's assessment that there is a lot of air that could/should be let out of this forum. There are lots of threads that I (personally) don't even bother with. The Rookies and Trainees and the What's up at Firms folders are vast wastelands of Edward D Jones bashing and bickering.

Prospecting isn't a float my boat folder in that I prospect in my own way and for my own purposes (which I've described before).  It seems to have become the unofficial "Annuities: Yes or No?" folder. Once you've said your piece, what's the point?

If the powers that be won't do anything about the travesty that those folders have become how can anyone expect any of the rest of the folders to be any better?

There is another internet corralary(?) that applies in this case: The more dramatic the exit, the more likely it is that the poster will be back. It's sorta like the arsonist that can't help but be there when the fire trucks arrive.

Bondguy, we already have one of these guys  http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/royals.htm

and one is more than enough AND you don't pass the "Holy Grail" test of King... "Must be a king!" "How do you know?" "He don't got sh@ all over him!"

[/quote]

Here's why I'm here:  I like to read whomit's posts (he's my favorite) and maybe ocassionally post here.  I do not troll or interfere with topics that I feel I can't participate in. I did like to read former planrcoach's posts, bondguy and jodabrker...and hey, I'm convinced that bh isn't joe... and I even like to ready bh's posts, too when he's not purposely being a basher or smart ass.  It's too bad that bondguy and joeydabrkr want a rep only site:  have the moderators make it one!...until then, I'll post here. and I'll logon here if i so choose.  Thak u very much.  And sorry you feel that way joe.  I'm sorry that I offended you and sorry that you want to impede my rights.  I"ll go away where you are concerned.  Please don't respond to my posts and I won't respond to yours.  Deal. 

[/quote]

It's extremely arrogant and self-centered of you to continue to post on a site called "registered rep. broker forums", if you are not a registered rep. We can't get rid of you, but we can think of you as a selfish POS.

on second thought, you're not very cute. 

Write to your local moderator and ask them to close the forum and more than likely they will band you because of your bashing ways, too.  Right back at you: takes one to know one.

[quote=goforbroke]

on second thought, you're not very cute. 

Write to your local moderator and ask them to close the forum and more than likely they will band you because of your bashing ways, too.  Right back at you: takes one to know one.

[/quote]

Your presence here has no impact on my life, other than the fact that when I see you post I say to myself, "what a POS." That's really about it.

oh, I'm so hurt, you bad man, you.

It must be doing more than that if you're taking time to respond.

Bully Bobby Hull

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

"Imus - Wrong for what he said. However, that what he said is spoken and accepted on the streets in every city in the country by ordinary people speaks to the societal issues facing not only blacks but our entire society as a whole. It's become cool to "Go Ghetto" , the word "Ho", demeaning to black women, has entered the general vernacular and that's a problem." Bondguy<?:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Yeah, they say it everyday, so even though Imus was wrong, it's just the way that it is.

You do have a reading comprehension problem. Reread what I wrote until this message is clear: That Imus thought this was Ok to say was because the word Ho is accepted on the street. He believed that the general acceptance of the word gave him license to use it. Clearly, not so. Yet the tragedy for the black community as a whole is that it is accepted on the street and in rapp music and that's a PROBLEM! It is so accepted in the ghetto that it has become accepted throughout society and that's a PROBLEM!

"Lyrics like "Piss on a Ho" are OK, no Sharpton, no outrage. Yet Imus is racially insensative[sic]. If that's not a double standard nothing is." Bondguy

What are they getting so upset about anyway? They got no right to be upset and Sharpton has no right to speak out for them because.. because... because....

Out of context, nicely done. Only speaking to the double standard here. CBS fires Imus but continues to play far more demeaning music on its radio stations. They (who ever They are) have every right to be upset. But be upset at the bigger problem. Clear?

And that Sharpton shouldn't speak.

You did nothing but add fuel to a fire. Even if it was not your INTENT to say they ought to just have toughened up it was the net result of your contribution. By distracting the focus away from what was said and insisting that the issue was about who was complaining about what was said you net subtracted from the progress that could have been made.

And what progress would that be? Again with the comprehension issues. My point is and was noone should be saying these things about black woman or any woman for that matter. That Sharpton and Jackson jumped on Imus was clearly opportunist race baiting. Which is their usual calling card..

Ya know? Imus didn't think he was doing anything wrong at the time either. But now we know better. Don't we?

Already hit this one. Are the black hip hop artist wrong too? Of course they are. That was my point, which somehow you missed.

Further, try to be less literal. The point was that you were all animated on the Imus issue and then you went all aslather when someone poked a little fun your way. Talk about making yourself a victim! Someone calls BS on your first year production numbers and you act like he called your wife a nappy headed ho. He was wrong (far as we know). You have to admit, it's a very rare number for a first year broker (especially these days) and you know it or you wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place (and you'd have rounded it to 150 or 155)!

Yeah, I could have rounded it but, the number was $154,000. Ask me what I did in year 4 and I couldn't tell you, but I remember year one.

I didn't realize that $154,000 was going to raise such a problem. Maybe, where you are from it's a big number, but for me, within my realm of experience, it's not. It was second or third quintile number at the time. Now my second year things got better. However, I'll give you this, it was different time. It was easier then IMO to get a fast start. Hard, with a high dropout rate, but maybe not as hard for large volume cold callers like myself.

When someone calls me a liar it does insult me. More so when its thrown out to discredit something I've said to try to help someone. Does not liking someone calling me a liar make me a victim? In your book yes. In my book it only makes me human.

You feel the need to wave it (the bloodied dressings from your insult injury) around like it's some red badge of courage from a flame war ambush? Grow up!

It is these juvenile temper tantrums that tend to poison the well. It’s when some tries to hoist themselves into a leadership position that they often wind up ahoist their own petard. Lead by example not by “spokesmanship!”

If you'd like we can take a poll here to see what the group thinks of that.

Your posts don't challenge my reading comprehension, and generally, if they would, I would give you the courtesy of asking you what you meant to say. (I would not do so over in the Imas[sic] thread because I didn't want to perpetuate that inanity.)

Yet you've clubbed me over the head with your complete misreading of my Imus posts, their content as well as intent. Is that the courtesy you speak of?

 Instead you let your solipsistic attitude tell you that it's not worth the loss of internet luster to engage someone in discussion, if you're not telling the world "what it is" then "it" must not be very important anyway! 

Good job, you lost me here. I am politely asking you to restate this using only one and two syllable words written at a sixth grade level so I can understand it. Note the courtesy.

For those looking for a place to have at it, here http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&amp ; ;sid=7ed7cdd2354b5b6b21e6d5200edbad7d is a forum by the guy who did the cataloging of the typical “Netizens” and Flame Warriors.  Looks like a fun spot that is welcoming of  just that sort of shenaniganery.

"Reread what I wrote until this message is clear:"

No need. I don't know how you grew up but, one thing I learned when I was a lad was that condensed milk didn't taste all that much like milk, but that doesn't mean it's not. I condensed the essence of what your speaking said. It doesn't taste like it did when you uttered it but it's basically what it boiled down to.

I'm not going to get into your twisted game of comparative, situational ethical "standards" (yes, you ought to recognize that those are mutually exclusive terms and that is exactly why they were placed together so you can see the fault of your "logic" when you apply them. Yes I know you are saying that you are arguing against situational ethics, but you are applying them in your own argument.) I'm not interested in having a discussion about Imus, Sharpton Jackson or Rutgers. The point was made for illustrative purposes, it was a valid point but focusing on it only serves to take the spotlight off the bigger point which is that you are overreacting.

Does not liking someone calling me a liar make me a victim?

No, but whining about it three weeks later certainly makes you appear as someone claiming victim status. And claiming that status in the very thread where one of the subtexts is victims, victimization and the victim class, and another subtext is hypocrisy and then you not seeing the hypocrisy of your own victimification is more ironic than a truckload of Geritol!

"I didn't realize that $154,000 was going to raise such a problem. Maybe, where you are from it's a big number, but for me, within my realm of experience, it's not."

If you might remember, I was right there saying that it was a very doable number. It's impressive, but I had no doubt that you could have done it.

The issue is not the number, the issue is you wrapping yourself in the swaddling cloth of your own righteous indignation that someone could actually doubt you. That you are so personally involved with electrons flashing on a screen that you can let someone's ungracious speech mean so much... Maybe a few weeks off is a good idea, for you.

As to your altruism...

The guy asked, "I am wondering what average production for an advisor in their first year is. Any idea?"

And you said: "That's a great question. Hopefully some recent trainees will step forward with their first year numbers. My first year was 23 years ago, or was it 24? My first year production was $154,000. Second year was $300,000+. I started with a small firm with only 101 trainees in the training program. By the end of year two I was the number two trainee in the firm. So my numbers were higher than average.

I can't relate my numbers to today's business, however I can tell you this:..."

That helped the guy how? It didn't answer his question, it just gave you an opportunity to whip it out and say "Ain't that a peach?" He asked what the average guy was doing today, not what you did 23 years ago.

"If you'd like we can take a poll here to see what the group thinks of that."

Go ahead Bette Davis take a poll!

"Yet you've clubbed me over the head with your complete misreading of my Imus posts, their content as well as intent. Is that the courtesy you speak of? "

Ahh, poor baby seal! I didn't misread it and if you're going to take a pole I think you know which one I'd suggest you start with!

"Good job, you lost me here. I am politely asking you to restate this using only one and two syllable words written at a sixth grade level so I can understand it. Note the courtesy."

The base of Solipsistic is Soli, solo, sole, one, soul, I. Solipsistic is essentially egocentrism (centered on one's own ego). You stated that you don't understand what I write, and yet, you don't ask me to explain. I've read many of your posts and they all seem to have one common denominator, they all start and end with YOU. They don't probe and they don't absorb, they lecture. This is why I say they are ego centric. You are not here for dialog, you are here to profess. You are here to declare that this is "what it is" if "it" isn't something that you said, then "it" isn't important to you (not important enough for you to ask for clarification).

"Reread what I wrote until this message is clear:..."

No, you reread what I wrote and what you wrote until YOU see that that your actions speak louder than your words.

kool comeback: whomit never disappoints.

Sillohette:

See, you should have gotten the screen name "whomit'sdog" -- he wouldn't have minded (much).    (Next time, take into account the 'great'

interpersonal skills of some of the people on this site.  Where else would someone give a compliment to the moderators and then get bashed?)

"You did nothing but add fuel to a fire. Even if it was not your INTENT to say they ought to just have toughened up it was the net result of your contribution. By distracting the focus away from what was said and insisting that the issue was about who was complaining about what was said you net subtracted from the progress that could have been made."Whom

"And what progress would that be? Again with the comprehension issues. My point is and was noone should be saying these things about black woman or any woman for that matter. That Sharpton and Jackson jumped on Imus was clearly opportunist race baiting. Which is their usual calling card.. " Bond, Guy Bond

<?:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O />This is the same thing as these forums. You are only able to control one thing, and that's you.

You cannot control Al Sharpton, just like he could not control the guy who ran into Freddies. You can only control how much attention YOU heap upon the guy. Stop biting the race bait and the race bait will go away.

You cannot control who posts here, you can only control how you interact with all posters. How much attention are you going to heap on guys that really don't control anything about you?

Maybe, if posters see more give and take and spirited interaction between adult professionals, they'll act like adult professionals too.

Certainly, these forums have taken on a air of absolutism (and not the good Absolut, either) because that's all there is here "This firm is best" "That firm is worst." "Only thieves sell this product." "Only fees are honest" everything has come down to a quasi religious fervency, Indy v. Wire v. RIA.!

I've identified it as "If 'A' is not equal to 'B' then 'B' equals 'NotA' logic!"

In my humble opinion, absolutism ought to be shunned. Absolutism is for Rookies and trainees only. They NEED to have faith until they have knowledge, then they should only have a faith that is honed by the search for truth. But that's years down the pike for them. Otherwise, if your business paradigm and your corporate mythology fits your ethos then, that's what's right for you. I don't care what firm it is.

I don't care if you're in a bolier room or if you're sitting on suede and pitching pension funds and endowments. If you as a client of your firm are reflective of your firm's personality (as we say, eventually, your book reflects your personality) then you're in the right place for you. Good for you!

If I were looking to sit down and hammer out a code of behavior for these forums, that's where I'd start, Absolutists who aren't rookies should be shunned (but positively).

i.e. absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[quote=goforbroke]

on second thought, you’re not very cute. 

Write to your local moderator and ask them to close the forum and more than likely they will band you because of your bashing ways, too.  Right back at you: takes one to know one.

[quote=Whomitmayconcer]

Joe,

Not for nothing, but, you know what? YOU are IMHO one of the worst offenders.

You jump in on every fight and add your snark. You perpetuate the bickering at almost every opportunity.

[/quote]

how true.

All you have to do is prove what I said is wrong.

I'm encouraging females to enter the career field: they can be successful.  What do they have to lose especially if they already have a lower level job. Maybe their math score isn't as good as males but their other skills more than compensate. 

IF you notice me giving out WRONG advice, all you have to do is correct me and if I disagree, I'll say so.  You really want this to be a closed site, don't you?  you're begging and pleading with the mods to band me and make it a closed site.   move on. 

You have a bad case of Suze envy and you really need to get some help for this.

I don't plan on posting that much. I just like reading some poster's posts.  He's a kool dude.    

now go away and quit working yourself up like this.  CALM down and take a chilll pill. 

that's where I'd start, Absolutists who aren't rookies should be shunned (but positively).

I absolutly agree with you.   On the other hand, isn't this somewhat of an absolutist position you are taking?  Hmmm.