Thoughts on ForeFront?

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Apr 11, 2009 3:34 pm

Good, bad or indifferent?

Apr 11, 2009 4:05 pm

Forefront is a joke. Envision is a total failure and a slight of hand for clients to distract them from their portfolio performance. It's overly dependent on historical performance and asset allocation and the result of these poor assumptions was a collapse of the planning tool with the crash of the market.

Apr 11, 2009 5:18 pm
punkbynature:

Forefront is a joke. Envision is a total failure and a slight of hand for clients to distract them from their portfolio performance. It's overly dependent on historical performance and asset allocation and the result of these poor assumptions was a collapse of the planning tool with the crash of the market.



yeah its a joke. Here is a little story no one has told. Stump and WFC did give Danny $ for retention. Why didn't you see any? Well any some thought and all the bonus frenzy in the news they decided to make an FA do a little work for some money. Know of several that can already pocket a 7 figure check now.

Apr 11, 2009 7:12 pm
Hydeho:
punkbynature:

Forefront is a joke. Envision is a total failure and a slight of hand for clients to distract them from their portfolio performance. It's overly dependent on historical performance and asset allocation and the result of these poor assumptions was a collapse of the planning tool with the crash of the market.



yeah its a joke. Here is a little story no one has told. Stump and WFC did give Danny $ for retention. Why didn't you see any? Well any some thought and all the bonus frenzy in the news they decided to make an FA do a little work for some money. Know of several that can already pocket a 7 figure check now.

 
Is there any documented proof Danny got a retention, or is this a guess or fourth hand info?
Apr 11, 2009 9:57 pm

4front is an easy way to pay a minimal retention to everyone in the firm: even the low producers (no production requirements). If questioned, they can always frame it not as retention, but as some kind of production enhancer. Anyway, if the market keeps moving up, no one will care if we are/were paid retention.



it is an EASY bonus to hit--i have an assistant do 4 hours of work and i'm done for $750k, which'll i'll gladly take up front. If i leave later, i leave later...i'll just pay it back, just as i would have retention.

Apr 11, 2009 9:59 pm
Wheat-ie:

4front is an easy way to pay a minimal retention to everyone in the firm: even the low producers (no production requirements). If questioned, they can always frame it not as retention, but as some kind of production enhancer. Anyway, if the market keeps moving up, no one will care if we are/were paid retention.

it is an EASY bonus to hit--i have an assistant do 4 hours of work and i'm done for $750k, which'll i'll gladly take up front. If i leave later, i leave later...i'll just pay it back, just as i would have retention.

 
4 hours to do $100mm worth of Envision Plans?  My BS meter just went off.
Apr 11, 2009 10:21 pm
Sam Houston:
Hydeho:
punkbynature:

Forefront is a joke. Envision is a total failure and a slight of hand for clients to distract them from their portfolio performance. It's overly dependent on historical performance and asset allocation and the result of these poor assumptions was a collapse of the planning tool with the crash of the market.



yeah its a joke. Here is a little story no one has told. Stump and WFC did give Danny $ for retention. Why didn't you see any? Well any some thought and all the bonus frenzy in the news they decided to make an FA do a little work for some money. Know of several that can already pocket a 7 figure check now.

 
Is there any documented proof Danny got a retention, or is this a guess or fourth hand info?
Apr 11, 2009 10:25 pm
Sam Houston:
Hydeho:
punkbynature:

Forefront is a joke. Envision is a total failure and a slight of hand for clients to distract them from their portfolio performance. It's overly dependent on historical performance and asset allocation and the result of these poor assumptions was a collapse of the planning tool with the crash of the market.



yeah its a joke. Here is a little story no one has told. Stump and WFC did give Danny $ for retention. Why didn't you see any? Well any some thought and all the bonus frenzy in the news they decided to make an FA do a little work for some money. Know of several that can already pocket a 7 figure check now.

 
Is there any documented proof Danny got a retention, or is this a guess or fourth hand info?



Danny didn't get a retention, he got retention $ from WFC and decided to use to fund forefront instead of giving for someone sitting on there ASS. Ask any market manager that was in St louis in march meeting.

Apr 12, 2009 12:25 am

Dog and Pony Show..Circus hoops...Busy Work...etc etc

Apr 12, 2009 12:02 pm
Sam Houston:
Wheat-ie:

4front is an easy way to pay a minimal retention to everyone in the firm: even the low producers (no production requirements). If questioned, they can always frame it not as retention, but as some kind of production enhancer. Anyway, if the market keeps moving up, no one will care if we are/were paid retention. it is an EASY bonus to hit--i have an assistant do 4 hours of work and i'm done for $750k, which'll i'll gladly take up front. If i leave later, i leave later...i'll just pay it back, just as i would have retention.



4 hours to do $100mm worth of Envision Plans? My BS meter just went off.





SH

Not that your 'meter' matters, but i have 27 HH of $3mm or more (theres 81mm right there). The Envision short sheet questionnaire is 2 pages long and requires only about 10 questions all being answered to complete the scaled down version of the plan--if you know your client to begin with, you know the answers off the top of your head. Takes about 5 minutes to complete each one. I had 15 of these profiles already done before this event, so my SA only had to enter around 25 plans, with the light data referenced to "qualify".



If all you $300k producers could just come to realize there are people out there with really good, really large businesses, and not everyone on this post is full of BS, you might learn a few things rather than question everyone so your own deflated egos and tiny little practices feel better.

Apr 12, 2009 12:08 pm

At least Wheat-ie is humble LMAO

Apr 12, 2009 1:12 pm
Wheat-ie:
Sam Houston:
Wheat-ie:

4front is an easy way to pay a minimal retention to everyone in the firm: even the low producers (no production requirements). If questioned, they can always frame it not as retention, but as some kind of production enhancer. Anyway, if the market keeps moving up, no one will care if we are/were paid retention. it is an EASY bonus to hit--i have an assistant do 4 hours of work and i'm done for $750k, which'll i'll gladly take up front. If i leave later, i leave later...i'll just pay it back, just as i would have retention.

 

4 hours to do $100mm worth of Envision Plans?  My BS meter just went off.



SH
Not that your 'meter' matters, but i have 27 HH of $3mm or more (theres 81mm right there). The Envision short sheet questionnaire is 2 pages long and requires only about 10 questions all being answered to complete the scaled down version of the plan--if you know your client to begin with, you know the answers off the top of your head. Takes about 5 minutes to complete each one. I had 15 of these profiles already done before this event, so my SA only had to enter around 25 plans, with the light data referenced to "qualify".

If all you $300k producers could just come to realize there are people out there with really good, really large businesses, and not everyone on this post is full of BS, you might learn a few things rather than question everyone so your own deflated egos and tiny little practices feel better.

 
25 plans= 25bps.  $81mm x 25bps= $202m, well short of the $750m you stated.  IF you had 50 plans done, all for the max $3mm, you would hit $750m, but this is still not what you have posted.
Apr 12, 2009 1:42 pm

If you are a million dollar producer you start at 75bps

Apr 12, 2009 1:44 pm

If you do plans for 85% of your eligible households you can exceed the 3 million cap.

Apr 12, 2009 2:32 pm
Sam Houston:
Wheat-ie:
Sam Houston:
Wheat-ie:

4front is an easy way to pay a minimal retention to everyone in the firm: even the low producers (no production requirements). If questioned, they can always frame it not as retention, but as some kind of production enhancer. Anyway, if the market keeps moving up, no one will care if we are/were paid retention. it is an EASY bonus to hit--i have an assistant do 4 hours of work and i'm done for $750k, which'll i'll gladly take up front. If i leave later, i leave later...i'll just pay it back, just as i would have retention.

 

4 hours to do $100mm worth of Envision Plans?  My BS meter just went off.



SH
Not that your 'meter' matters, but i have 27 HH of $3mm or more (theres 81mm right there). The Envision short sheet questionnaire is 2 pages long and requires only about 10 questions all being answered to complete the scaled down version of the plan--if you know your client to begin with, you know the answers off the top of your head. Takes about 5 minutes to complete each one. I had 15 of these profiles already done before this event, so my SA only had to enter around 25 plans, with the light data referenced to "qualify".

If all you $300k producers could just come to realize there are people out there with really good, really large businesses, and not everyone on this post is full of BS, you might learn a few things rather than question everyone so your own deflated egos and tiny little practices feel better.

 
25 plans= 25bps.  $81mm x 25bps= $202m, well short of the $750m you stated.  IF you had 50 plans done, all for the max $3mm, you would hit $750m, but this is still not what you have posted.
 
SH,
 
You don't even know what you don't know.  Before you run your math - you should find out what the rest of us are getting paid on the Envision program.  Maybe utilizing Envision will help you get your business to the next level.   
Apr 12, 2009 3:36 pm

You are 100% correct.  I barely looked at Envision because I do not want WF/WS to know any more info about my clients than is necessary and I do not want my clients to get used to or start liking anything that says WF/WS on it.  I will exit this discussion noting that I have spoken out of turn.  Sorry.

Apr 12, 2009 5:38 pm
Wheat-ie:

4front is an easy way to pay a minimal retention to everyone in the firm: even the low producers (no production requirements). If questioned, they can always frame it not as retention, but as some kind of production enhancer. Anyway, if the market keeps moving up, no one will care if we are/were paid retention.

it is an EASY bonus to hit--i have an assistant do 4 hours of work and i'm done for $750k, which'll i'll gladly take up front. If i leave later, i leave later...i'll just pay it back, just as i would have retention.

 
Agree with Wheatie: it was a way for WFC to give retention without calling it retention.
 
I wrote a while back that 4front reminded me of the Merrill financial foundation that we used to have to sell for $250 or have the manager's foot on our ass. It was an inflexible piece of junk.  I believe Merrill gave up on that program when they realized FC's were turning in plans for dead people.
 
WFC is making the same mistake and I'm planning on taking their money.
 
Why not get another check for cranking out a few reports.
 
 
Apr 12, 2009 8:03 pm
Sam Houston:

You are 100% correct.  I barely looked at Envision because I do not want WF/WS to know any more info about my clients than is necessary and I do not want my clients to get used to or start liking anything that says WF/WS on it.  I will exit this discussion noting that I have spoken out of turn.  Sorry.

 
Can I get an AMEN?!!
Apr 12, 2009 9:08 pm

Sam:

 
If your realtionship with your clients is strong enough their not going to care what company's name is on the statement.  All the information about your client's is already on the system.  What more do you have to disclose?
 
Repackage the existing data and take a check. They're setting up the system. Use it.
Apr 12, 2009 9:52 pm
Herman Munster:

Sam:

 
If your realtionship with your clients is strong enough their not going to care what company's name is on the statement.  All the information about your client's is already on the system.  What more do you have to disclose?
 
Repackage the existing data and take a check. They're setting up the system. Use it.
 
...and you don't think that Envision is a way to get the client to rely on the company?  Those plans are impressive.  The whole "where's my dot" concept is brilliant.  I have strong relationships with my clients, however I do not need to put them into a proprietary (sp?) program that may make it harder for me in the future to get a check 1 1/2 years into the future with a 9 year handcuff.