New Jones Minimum Production Levels Coming?
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Spiff-
As ususal, it comes down to you denegrating someone else when they disagree with you. A higher percentage of the trainers back in the 90's had no clue how to sell, but knew what to teach. In fact, just like you, they wanted to take over an office and was told one way to get that was to stay in home office ane then move out in the field. Obtaining a license doesn't make you qualified to teach others about the industry. If however, you are teaching them how to pass examinations I am in your corner.
Having someone teach you about selling when they rarely had that experience caused the FA's in the field to tell you do what they tell you at class and then when you get back we'll teach you how to survive. It's a shame that the mentality existed , but it was fairly unanimous amongst those in the field that the trainers had no clue how to make it. But they knew the hamburger....
Certainly we can agree on this point can't we or are you going to call me an idiot too? After all these years...I think I know your answer...Spiff...it takes one to know one...
Spiff..
As usual you have the biting tone of defense at all times. Your crack about your LP always makes me smile and tells me you are the kind of rep Jones covets.. Here's an update I found out about last night talking to an FA on the west coast (an old friend of mine).
Apparently there is an OSJ who is offering 90% payout to the under 300K producers to work under his firm. He's one of the biggest players out there (98% payout from LPL) his production is north of 2M and he works on 8% of others production. He provides office space, office staff, just about everyhting but benefits. The reps are netting close to 80% grossing what you gross and guess what no production limits, not trips hanging on profitablity, and he's recruiting strategy is Jones reps period.
Your LP is never going to grow, and I know that the 10-20K(or whatever the amount was) you invested even if it earned 15% is absolutely meaningless. I may be an idiot, you are the eipitome of a Jones drone. Your average and always will be. But you are the best supreme time waster I have ever read on these forums.And when you hit the doldrums, and you will, watch management use your constant diatribes on these forums against you. After all big brother is watching every keystroke you make.
[quote=BigCheese]
Spiff..
As usual you have the biting tone of defense at all times. Your crack about your LP always makes me smile and tells me you are the kind of rep Jones covets.. Here's an update I found out about last night talking to an FA on the west coast (an old friend of mine).
Apparently there is an OSJ who is offering 90% payout to the under 300K producers to work under his firm. He's one of the biggest players out there (98% payout from LPL) his production is north of 2M and he works on 8% of others production. He provides office space, office staff, just about everyhting but benefits. The reps are netting close to 80% grossing what you gross and guess what no production limits, not trips hanging on profitablity, and he's recruiting strategy is Jones reps period.
Your LP is never going to grow, and I know that the 10-20K(or whatever the amount was) you invested even if it earned 15% is absolutely meaningless. I may be an idiot, you are the eipitome of a Jones drone. Your average and always will be. But you are the best supreme time waster I have ever read on these forums.And when you hit the doldrums, and you will, watch management use your constant diatribes on these forums against you. After all big brother is watching every keystroke you make.
[/quote]
Who is he?
[quote=xej1984]
doesn't a location with 3 or more brokers have to be registered as a "branch" with one isn't it a "sub-branch"?
[/quote]
So perhaps 2 would be a better plan
[quote=I am legend]
[quote=xej1984]
doesn't a location with 3 or more brokers have to be registered as a "branch" with one isn't it a "sub-branch"?
[/quote]
So perhaps 2 would be a better plan
[/quote]
You could probably cut at least 35-40% of branch overhead by just having two FA's in an office versus one. Most FA's at Jones could share one BOA, and many of the offcies would not need additional space, jsut some extra furniture. Granted, the overall size of newer offices would be larger than historical norms, and some expenses could not be saved (2x furniture, 2x computers, etc.), and some office may need two BOA's, but company-wide, you could probably save 30% of branch overhead by doing this. In addition, you could save on a lot of new-office buildouts. From a firm persepctive, you could retain a lot more assets when FA's leave (bad for departing FA). I already know many of my legacy FA's best clients, as I see them and talk to them quite a bit, and know a lot about them. This would be bad if he ever left the firm (prior to leaving my office).
It all just makes sense for Jones to do this.
They would also save on Kool Aid delivery fees.
Does Jones still have those satilite dishes from the 80's?
If so antique collectors may be interested in purchasing them, might be a revenue source ? Unless they still use them!
[quote=Greenbacks2]
They would also save on Kool Aid delivery fees.
Does Jones still have those satilite dishes from the 80's?
If so antique collectors may be interested in purchasing them, might be a revenue source ? Unless they still use them!
[/quote]
No, no satellites. There may be some old legacy offices that still need them if they can't get DSL or better speed into the office, but most have DSL or T1 connections now for internet and streaming video-on-demand. I've been in my new office for about 2.5 years (I was previously in my house for 8 months and in a GK office for a year), and I never had a satellite.
[quote=BigCheese]
Spiff-
As ususal, it comes down to you denegrating someone else when they disagree with you. A higher percentage of the trainers back in the 90's had no clue how to sell, but knew what to teach. In fact, just like you, they wanted to take over an office and was told one way to get that was to stay in home office ane then move out in the field. Obtaining a license doesn't make you qualified to teach others about the industry. If however, you are teaching them how to pass examinations I am in your corner.
Having someone teach you about selling when they rarely had that experience caused the FA's in the field to tell you do what they tell you at class and then when you get back we'll teach you how to survive. It's a shame that the mentality existed , but it was fairly unanimous amongst those in the field that the trainers had no clue how to make it. But they knew the hamburger....
Certainly we can agree on this point can't we or are you going to call me an idiot too? After all these years...I think I know your answer...Spiff...it takes one to know one...
[/quote]
Denegrating? He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, but yet he continued to argue his point. In my mind, that makes him an idiot. Or just plain stupid. You pick.
Just so you know, the trainers that were in your KYC/EvalGrad/PDP classes didn't write the material they were teaching. Just like your professors in college didn't write the textbooks they were using. But, they know what to tell you and how to deliver what you need to learn. The vast majority of the material was originally created by guys like Al McKenzie, Jack Phelan, Jack Cahill, and some other GPs who's names I can't remember right now, who did have sales experience. Lots of it. You think some trainer came up with the Hamburger? Why do you think they call it the Jack Phelan close? You don't have to hear that close directly from Jack Phelan to know how to use it.
The classroom training was designed to be the starting point. It was never meant to be the only sales training you received. The mentor relationship is the real world connection. We all knew that what we were teaching was a great 100 level course, but the best training was going to be by fire on the phone with a prospect or at the doorstep.
As to your comment about obtaining a license not qualifying you to teach others in the industry, you are correct, in theory. However, there are many jobs in this industry where you are required to have a license in order to do your job, even though your job has nothing to do with sales. The only reason those instructors are licensed is because the industry says they have to be. If Jones could get away with not having to pay for all those licenses and CE fees, they would.
In a perfect world the best FAs come teach the new folks exactly how to sell, prospect, and run their businesses. Not gonna happen. So, Jones trains the ATL to do the best they can and expects the FA to seek out what other knowledge he or she feels they need.
[quote=B24]
[quote=Greenbacks2]
They would also save on Kool Aid delivery fees.
Does Jones still have those satilite dishes from the 80's?
If so antique collectors may be interested in purchasing them, might be a revenue source ? Unless they still use them!
[/quote]
No, no satellites. There may be some old legacy offices that still need them if they can't get DSL or better speed into the office, but most have DSL or T1 connections now for internet and streaming video-on-demand. I've been in my new office for about 2.5 years (I was previously in my house for 8 months and in a GK office for a year), and I never had a satellite.
[/quote]
I've still got a dish outside my building, but I'm not sure it's actually used for anything. I might be able to pick up Pakistani TV with it. Who knows.
Thanks for proving my point spiffy. The fact that all those "great" trainers were from the '70s or earlier proves my point that jones is out of date and unable to change outside of it's culture. But you love the koolade so more power to you. I still don't see any way that jones will ever be a big player in the industry. They hire on the cheap, train on the cheap, but use the old fecal matter against the wall strategy(whatever sticks, wins). It's just not a very impressive organization. Hey, everyone can't play for the yankees, the league needs nationals and royals too.
[quote=navet]
Thanks for proving my point spiffy. The fact that all those "great" trainers were from the '70s or earlier proves my point that jones is out of date and unable to change outside of it's culture. But you love the koolade so more power to you. I still don't see any way that jones will ever be a big player in the industry. They hire on the cheap, train on the cheap, but use the old fecal matter against the wall strategy(whatever sticks, wins). It's just not a very impressive organization. Hey, everyone can't play for the yankees, the league needs nationals and royals too.
[/quote]
If you're going to consider places like BAC/MER and MSSB as the Yanks, then I'm happy playing for the Nats or even the Royals. You're right that Jones doesn't have the market penetration with some of the HNW folks. We have our fair share (which has grown over the last two years), but we still don't have the status that you get when you flash your Morgan Stanley biz card. I'd consider Jones more like the Cardinals. We're just simple Midwest people who don't like a bunch of flashy players (or the egos that go along with them), but we get the job done and have a very loyal fan base.
OK, back to the training. But first, a question - When did Markowitz write his original paper on MPT? 1995? 2002? 1987? Give up? 1952. But yet every Morningstar report that you run has MPT stuff all over it. Does that mean that what he came up with in 1952 is obsolete in 2010? Not hardly. The same holds true with some of the training techniques. What you probably don't know about the training material is that it gets rewritten every few years. I think in the time that I was there we had three rewrites. Things like the Hamburger, Jack Phelan close, and asking open ended questions made it through each rewrite because they don't go out of date. You think doorknocking is out of date? Funny, it still works for me when I do it. You think that calling people and asking them to buy something is out of date? Funny, it still works for me when I do it. So, what exactly is it that you think is so out of date with Jones?
What would you change to make them more up to date? Consider yourself Jim Weddle talking to a group of brand new FAs. What do you tell them about being an FA in 2010? What are the top 10 things a new FA in 2010 absolutely must know before he makes his first contact?
At the end of the day, starting in this business is really just about contacts. We can argue and split hairs all day about Jones' methods, but does ANY other major firm train its newbies any better to close business? Honestly. Name one firm that is "GREAT" at sales training for newbies. Still waiting. Now? Anybody?
That is why I have said for years learn from them as much as you can. Hit their benchmarks for three years minimum and then look at all options. Their training is as good as it gets (and its not very good in my opinion) which is a sad commentary on our industry.
Jones has its niche. If you are an independent type personality, all the stuff that comes with working within a corporation, will drive you to look elsewhere as it did me. I am thankful for my nine years at Jones. It helped me learn how to hunt, the most critcal aspect of being an FA.
What I couldn't do at Jones, I am now able. To be complely without conflicts when I make a recommendation. Only recently could the argument be made that EDJ has changed its stripes, and even at that it still isn't competitive with the rest of the industry.
What I like most about what I am doing now is I have removed the layers of expense that I paid for and got little back. Someday, Spiff, B and others will see the distinction. When the pain of staying is worse than the pain of leaving you will know it.
I'm sure glad I don't have to worry about this anymore.
It always seemed like these production level increases would happen at exactly the wrong time for me when I was at Edward Jones. The last one hit exactly during the same month where my line was about to level off. It was ironic that the last one hit very close to the end of the bull market as well.
Jones is a great firm. I have no beef with Jones. I still think they could benefit with trying to retain some of the 4, 5, and 6 year guys rather than just shuffling them in and out like light bulbs. When one burns out you just slap another one in the socket. With the amount of assets being handed out to Goodknights, Legacy guys, and other assorted Asset Inheritors it always was kind of rankling how they made the true "new new" toe the line.
I'm still friend with about 20 guys at the firm. The truth is that there is no "one size fits all" prescription for success. It takes a combination of hard work plus a sprinkling of good luck. You want to try to keep your BOA, catch some of the inherited assets being passed out, and be in the right place at the right time.
I notice some of the guys struggling are always flipping BOAs. One of the guys I used to compete with inherited a ten year BOA along with the fistful of dollars from the asset handoff.
One of the dillema's at the five year point is that your trails are still miniscule so they don't really help much when the leg gets kicked out from under the market.
It's been a gruelling two years. I enjoyed my time at Jones but am happy at my new home. It's nice to be able to step away for a week and not have the world end.
I notice at other firms most new guys join teams. I think that's the ticket. Join a team, mentor under an experienced FA, learn the business, and increase your odds of success. Going new new can be done but it's like spinning a roulette wheel.
Good luck guys.
I agree completely, Big C. The fact that the kool-ade drinkers won't critique their own company indicates how deeply imbedded Jones problems are. Senior management spelled out the big issues in the "brutal facts", yet the Umpa Lumpas still push their wheel barrows.
[quote=navet]
I agree completely, Big C. The fact that the kool-ade drinkers won't critique their own company indicates how deeply imbedded Jones problems are. Senior management spelled out the big issues in the "brutal facts", yet the Umpa Lumpas still push their wheel barrows.
[/quote]
You've never heard me critique Jones? Really? On the flip-side, why would I just take a big dump all over them like everyone else seems to do? There's a lot they do right, and when people constantly revert back to old, tired lines (e-mail, revenue sharing, whatever), simply don't understand reality ("it's a ponzi scheme!"...."LP is a crock!"....."Jones is in financial trouble!"), or lean on things that are completely immaterial to the overall firm (Canada, UK), it just irritates the shit out of me.
Now, when people want to talk about things that really MATTER (the training process, the newbie hiring, the A-share focus, single-FA offices, weak advisory options, etc.), I have NO problem weighing in on that, as many of those things bother me. But let's get past the things that are simply stupid arguments.