Max, I based my comments on his remark about "having more free reign" and "sorry your region had some unethical brokers just take them with you when you move to LPL" and "hope your clients like those EIA's." That's some pretty deep sarcasm and I guess I did kind of take it personally. (not because we run an unethical practice or sell EIA'sbut because we DO work @ LPL and we DID leave Jones)

Jones bills themselves as "the most ethical firm on Wall Street" right? I think alot of that thinking extends down to the IR's..."If I work for the most ethical firm on Wall Street, I must be the most ethical guy around." I dunno, maybe I took it too literal.

[quote=CIBforeveryone]

Joe - It's my understanding it's because Jones offers the 'A' Share annuity. Something my rep sold alot of. I doubt if this is industry wide, just Jones specific. However, different insurance companies allow specific funds to count towards breakpoint on the A share annuity and vice versa. I know Lord Abbett was very liberal in allowing funds inside annuities to count towards breakpoint (or at least they were in our case 90% of the time) American Funds? not so much.

[/quote]

What has happened w/ your A share annuities since going Indy? Can you add more client money? Any client issues w/ these? I presume you can not still offer them?

CIB

[/quote]

We can hold them, be b/d. Clts can add to them if they want, but most clients choose the XC bonus product Snoopy offers. (b/c Snoopy pays 6 milk bones to Mr. Client ) While at Jones we always heard only Jones offers A share, but now know that's not true. We can sell A share on the outside, but also know that other products can be beneficial to client. Like L share 4 yr surrender, internal expenses same as A share, less upfront cost to client.

Forgot to mention payout on XC is same as A share, just in case anyone is wondering.

My B/D doesn’t allow additions to the A share annuities ( I sold a lot of Hartford Leaders Edge)  but we can still hold them as the agent and service the account.

BTW: Hartford has a pretty nice 4 yr surrender VA.

I can hold the A-Share Product and add to it! 

I wish I could  :-(  I asked why and they didn’t have a very good answer just that they were not contracted with Hartford for that particular product.  They said it was a Jones proprietary VA.

I was grossing about 700k from 68 million back in 2001.  We brought in quite a bit of new money, but the market kept declining so our asset base grew only a few million that year. 

Funny now that I'm indy I do about 750k off of 110 million.  So that disproves Ranks theory on indies.  Ranks knows about as much about the investment business as a 4th year Jones broker...WAIT!!!  he is a 4th year Jones broker! LOL.

Now at 50% of my revenue from fee based/C share & annuity trails.  Can you imagine how much in A shares I would have had to accumulate at Jones to get to 350 gross?  close to 150 million in A shares alone!!!! 

[quote=Devoted SA][quote=CIBforeveryone]

Joe - It's my understanding it's because Jones offers the 'A' Share annuity. Something my rep sold alot of. I doubt if this is industry wide, just Jones specific. However, different insurance companies allow specific funds to count towards breakpoint on the A share annuity and vice versa. I know Lord Abbett was very liberal in allowing funds inside annuities to count towards breakpoint (or at least they were in our case 90% of the time) American Funds? not so much.

[/quote]

What has happened w/ your A share annuities since going Indy? Can you add more client money? Any client issues w/ these? I presume you can not still offer them?

CIB

[/quote]

We can hold them, be b/d. Clts can add to them if they want, but most clients choose the XC bonus product Snoopy offers. (b/c Snoopy pays 6 milk bones to Mr. Client ) While at Jones we always heard only Jones offers A share, but now know that's not true. We can sell A share on the outside, but also know that other products can be beneficial to client. Like L share 4 yr surrender, internal expenses same as A share, less upfront cost to client.

[/quote]

Nicole,

The L share has considerably more expenses than the A share. I would think that you know better than that. The L share has a 4 yr surrender the A share is totally liquid for a client 59 1/2 or older. The L share does have a lower upfront cost, however.

I left Jones earlier in the spring and my own experience is one of a client that transferred their account to my office.  Lets just say 150,000 between Federated, Am Fds, & Hartford.

I don't think this just comes from IRs in the feild.  I went to two training programs after advancing to a new segment, and through the programs, the trainers actually gave us hints as to make more for yourself (the firm).  With 30 yr bond rates being low, Jones wasn't making as much on them as they were in the touchdown days (7 pts on a bond).  The trainer guided us towards UITs where we could get paid 3.5-4 pts rather than 1.75 to 2 pts on the structured notes.

Moving to indy has been the best thing to happen to me and my family.  I work under an OSJ so my production requirements are making sure my daughter can eat and my wife can buy shoes.  Even though Jones says it is impossible, I make more doing less, my accountant says that AMT won't be an issue, I have control over my business expenses, it really isn't that difficult to cut a check to my assistant (who came with me and ol Jimmy boy replied to a rep that it is much easier to let Jones handle that for you), and there is no such thing as a segment or needing to make 25 real contacts per day or opening 10 accts per month.  My mentor at Jones always told me that his goal was to still make 30 sales calls per day and open 10 accts per month after 12 yrs in the business.  I can only imagine that the clients who trusted him were getting his undivided attention with their best interest at heart, after all he now needs to make Seg 5 (Jones won't carry him forever you know). 

Everything that Spike koolaid wrote can happen at any firm including Jones. I call people like him a crook no matter which firm the work for. He will make more money in the fee based platforms than in missing 100k breakpoints over time…much more. That is why he made the move. Someone that constantly looks to screw his clients into paying gobs more money never makes career choices based on what will be better for his clients. I find more screwballs are independent that at wire houses and banks because they can really get paid.

[quote=peanutbroker]Everything that Spike koolaid wrote can happen at any firm including Jones. I call people like him a crook no matter which firm the work for. He will make more money in the fee based platforms than in missing 100k breakpoints over time...much more. That is why he made the move. Someone that constantly looks to screw his clients into paying gobs more money never makes career choices based on what will be better for his clients. I find more screwballs are independent that at wire houses and banks because they can really get paid.[/quote]

I'm sorry Peanut that you think I'm a crook.  I wouldn't classify myself as a crook.  I didn't put my clients in Indexed Annuities/Limited Partnerships/etc.  I worked the Jones system.  I put my clients in good solid Mutual Funds and UIT's.  I also had them buy bonds and a couple of stocks.  What I'm trying to reveal is that Jones does not have systems in place to manage their "ethical firm on Wall Street" claim.  There are flaws in their supervision and I am trying to expose them.  Jones wants to be an A++ firm but I would give them a C on really cracking down on the top producers way of making a living.  

I got to a point at Jones that I realized I couldn't work any harder or get paid anymore.  I was kind of stuck in a rut.  Going Indy presented new challenges and new opportunities.  I'm so happy! 

Peanut-



I don’t believe you have ever worked at Jones. What Spike is preaching is the

truth. Follow the line or you will be derailed at this company. The GP status

is the nugget that is dangled in front of you. Everyone hopes by playing by

"the rules" that they will get a piece of this nugget. Nice info Spiked, again!

Here's another one...

About 3 or 4 years ago Jones came up with this Aggregration Rule.  It basically states that if you put more than $100,000 into individual bonds in 30 days you would have to discount the commission on anything over $100,000.  The way IR's got around this was two fold.

First, you could put it into three different CMO's, Muni's, and UIT's and avoid the aggregration rule.  Second, You could also buy a bond fund (LBNDX-preferred revenue sharing) and then the bonds.  

I remember getting calls from newer Edward Jones Reps and them being so upset.  They had just sold their client on putting $250,000 into a laddered portfolio of bonds and they thought they were going to get paid X and then they ended up seeing their commission was cut in half.  They would then ask me how do you get around this aggregation rule.  I would teach them just like my mentor taught me. 

The koolaid has been spiked for a long time...more to come! 

[quote=noggin][quote=Devoted SA][quote=CIBforeveryone]

Joe - It's my understanding it's because Jones offers the 'A' Share annuity. Something my rep sold alot of. I doubt if this is industry wide, just Jones specific. However, different insurance companies allow specific funds to count towards breakpoint on the A share annuity and vice versa. I know Lord Abbett was very liberal in allowing funds inside annuities to count towards breakpoint (or at least they were in our case 90% of the time) American Funds? not so much.

[/quote]

What has happened w/ your A share annuities since going Indy? Can you add more client money? Any client issues w/ these? I presume you can not still offer them?

CIB

[/quote]

We can hold them, be b/d. Clts can add to them if they want, but most clients choose the XC bonus product Snoopy offers. (b/c Snoopy pays 6 milk bones to Mr. Client ) While at Jones we always heard only Jones offers A share, but now know that's not true. We can sell A share on the outside, but also know that other products can be beneficial to client. Like L share 4 yr surrender, internal expenses same as A share, less upfront cost to client.

[/quote]

Nicole,

The L share has considerably more expenses than the A share. I would think that you know better than that. The L share has a 4 yr surrender the A share is totally liquid for a client 59 1/2 or older. The L share does have a lower upfront cost, however.

Bahh pushed wrong button.

Noggin - You're right..I wasn't paying attention to what I was looking at.

WOW- I took a couple days off and look at all this noise.

For all you Brokers out there who have never worked for Jones- what you are missing here that is going on between Current and Ex-Jonesers is this: When you are hired at Jones you take a vow of poverty. Every morning when a Jones IR comes into their office they are to face St. Louis and bow reciting the Five Critical Activities of a New IR.  They eat a strict and regimented diet of sliced fresh fruit, stale muffins and coffee. The gladly volunteer their time to recruit, train and mentor other converts to the Jones Faith. Just before graduating to go out on their own-which literally means door knocking- they must be able to correctly sell a Mutual Fund using a Cake Mix box and sell stock using a brick. When Brokers fail the test of Poverty -they are called Unethical. When they leave Jones - they become infidels. And when they speak the truth- they become Morons.  If a Broker can somehow manage to navigate this system of Judgmentalism , walk the halls of St. Louis viewing all the portraits of the St. Jones brokers before them and sell his soul for the firm- he becomes a ...... General Partner

[quote=Devoted SA][quote=CIBforeveryone]

Joe - It's my understanding it's because Jones offers the 'A' Share annuity. Something my rep sold alot of. I doubt if this is industry wide, just Jones specific. However, different insurance companies allow specific funds to count towards breakpoint on the A share annuity and vice versa. I know Lord Abbett was very liberal in allowing funds inside annuities to count towards breakpoint (or at least they were in our case 90% of the time) American Funds? not so much.

[/quote]

What has happened w/ your A share annuities since going Indy? Can you add more client money? Any client issues w/ these? I presume you can not still offer them?

CIB

[/quote]

We can hold them, be b/d. Clts can add to them if they want, but most clients choose the XC bonus product Snoopy offers. (b/c Snoopy pays 6 milk bones to Mr. Client ) While at Jones we always heard only Jones offers A share, but now know that's not true. We can sell A share on the outside, but also know that other products can be beneficial to client. Like L share 4 yr surrender, internal expenses same as A share, less upfront cost to client.

Joe- What’s a Sur-ren-dur?

One of my favorites things that Jones did before I left was in the Fall of 2005.  They ran a contest and the main prize was a picture of Doug Hill with one of his "sayings" on it.  Just what I want in my office - a picture of 3mil Hill!  After winning all the other contests up to that, I was actually glad not to win that one!

[quote=munytalks]

WOW- I took a couple days off and look at all this noise.

For all you Brokers out there who have never worked for Jones- what you are missing here that is going on between Current and Ex-Jonesers is this: When you are hired at Jones you take a vow of poverty. Every morning when a Jones IR comes into their office they are to face St. Louis and bow reciting the Five Critical Activities of a New IR.  They eat a strict and regimented diet of sliced fresh fruit, stale muffins and coffee. The gladly volunteer their time to recruit, train and mentor other converts to the Jones Faith. Just before graduating to go out on their own-which literally means door knocking- they must be able to correctly sell a Mutual Fund using a Cake Mix box and sell stock using a brick. When Brokers fail the test of Poverty -they are called Unethical. When they leave Jones - they become infidels. And when they speak the truth- they become Morons.  If a Broker can somehow manage to navigate this system of Judgmentalism , walk the halls of St. Louis viewing all the portraits of the St. Jones brokers before them and sell his soul for the firm- he becomes a ...... General Partner

One of my favorites things that Jones did before I left was in the Fall of 2005.  They ran a contest and the main prize was a picture of Doug Hill with one of his "sayings" on it. 

What was second place's prize? Two pictures of Doug?