[quote=lawsucks]

[quote=midtown]Starka raised a valid point about A share annuities. If they are in the best interest of the client, then why, particularly in today's regulatory oversight environment, is Jones the only shop of any size to offer them? [/quote]

You Jones haters are really reaching on this one.  If A share annuities are bad, why aren't A share mutual funds also bad?  Franklin doesn't even offer B shares anymore and most MF companies and B/Ds won't allow investments over $50k into a B share.  If you want to rip on Jones, from everything I have read, there is plenty of ammo - limited (and crappy) products, cult-like culture, awful tech, etc.  But to rip on the A share annuity, that just shows you are motivated more by spite than logic.

[/quote]

As I've asked on another thread, how does an A share VA equate to A share mutual funds?  You're arguing apples v oranges. 

Peanut-



Go to the head of the insurance department at Jones and get the figures.

You will find relative to your peers your firm sells a high number of VAs,

especially inside of IRA accounts. Thus the primary reason for the A share

product. Firm being proactive and for that I do not fault them. Other name

firms just make it more difficult to sell.

[quote=Philo Kvetch]As I've asked on another thread, how does an A share VA equate to A share mutual funds?  You're arguing apples v oranges. [/quote]

I'm not comparing an annuity to a mutual fund as an investment, I'm just comparing the way we get paid as advisors.  Personally, I welcome the trend we are seeing towards either charging an up front, A share,  type commission or an ongoing, fee-based or C share, type charge.  More transparent, which is good for the client, the advisor, and the industry as a whole, in my opinion.

So Big Lew thinks he knows my name:  I guess that validates everything I’ve said…I guess it’s all true!  So to those who doubted the words I’ve spoke, please ask Big Lew to ellaborate.  I’m waiting…

As for A-Share Annuities they are great for missing breakpoints.  So a client comes in with $250,000.  You put $100,000 into an A-Share Annuity with Protective and then put $85,000 with A-Share American Funds (because Protective doesn’t have American Funds in their VA product) and then $65,000 into secondary UIT’s (net 4.5) and DCA the interest into the A-Share American Funds.  That’s what they call diversification at Jones!

NASD Newbie -

I believe the rep has to manually journal the $ to cover the debit.

If not done, the interest will continue to be charged while the cash
sits there. Can anyone explain why these mechanics can’t be set so it
is automatic? Client can carry $ mkt at lower rates than interest
charged to the account. What is rationale?

NASD, yes of course if a client runs a debit balance a rep can "float" funds from Margin (provided there are securities to create a margin loan) or journal from another account. At Jones, however if a client is a constant "bad check" writer the rep has the choice to revoke the debit balance and not pay it -or- if the rep does not respond prior to 8:30 am PST (i.e. if you cannot reach Mr. Mrs. Client) then Jones has no choice but to revoke the debit.

Ok, here's the one I love--

Jones' technology is so archaic that when you buy a bond or secondary income UIT and DCA the interest into mutual funds there is no way to check for breakpoints.  The reinvestment always went in at full boat 5.75%.  There was no way to even track this through the Jones system. 

Jones' systems also did not allow for aggregrating people's holdings.  The breakpoint system was up to the IR.  When you had your annual "surprise" audit, the audit person would ask why didn't you give this person a breakpoint on this trade and the answer was always, "I thought the system would catch it."  The audit person would then ask you to correct it manually.  This seemed odd to me, that they were the Field Supervisor but they weren't catching stuff until months later.  The $1000 or $10,000 trades they never even cared about.   As long as it was just a couple you were given a satisfactory grade.

Spiked,  Not to defend Jones, but after the $75million fine, they did fix the systematic trading platform, so the client does get the correct b/p on systematic trades. 

The system for manual trades is still the same, though.  The rep enters the order for a certain breakpoint, and if it's not correct, then the system might catch it a week later or so, causing cancelled and re-entered trades (at a loss to the IR, I might add).

Why can't the system just automate the breakpoints like it does on systematic trades????? Who knows.

Spiked,  Keep the "Secrets" coming.  I do enjoy them.

Dudley

Mr. Dudley,

It sounds like they have closed some loopholes in the technology.  They still haven't corrected the sandbagging that a lot of the newbies do in order to hit certain segments.

For example, if an IR receives a check on Friday and the end of the pay period is Tuesday, a lot of IR's simply wait to put their trades in until Wednesday, thus pushing their commissions into the next pay period, so as to look good to their RL, DL, and others.  I think this completely F#%#cks the customer. 

What if the market moves up 200 to 300 points on Monday or Tuesday.  Oh I forgot, Jones suggests you DCA the money into the market over time.  I want to know one Jones IR who is sitting on a $100k+ ticket and they suggest to the client to put it in over 12 months.  There is no one, because then the IR wouldn't get paid. 

Jones claims they are doing what's right for the customer but they breed a culture that allows IR's to perceive to look good instead of being good.  If the IR waits to put trades in then they look better the next month. 

[quote=spikedkoolaid]So Big Lew thinks he knows my name:  I guess that validates everything I’ve said…I guess it’s all true!  So to those who doubted the words I’ve spoke, please ask Big Lew to ellaborate.  I’m waiting…[/quote]

Where did this happen?  Was the post deleted?
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[quote=Starka]

Sure.

To start with, tell me about your experiences so far with options. Have you done many butterfly spreads? That’s 1



Then tell me all about the trust work you’ve done. I have 3 Accts with our Trust Dept



How about health insurance? Who are you appointed with? Are you kidding?



Have you done much with untraded REITs? That’s 2



How’s your research department on small and mid-cap equities? If you’re independent, it’s better than yours - I have access to our “research”, S&P, and BCA



How’s your portfolio analysis software? Am I wrong to think that Goldman Sachs/Morningstar X-Ray is not very good?



How about your financial planning stuff? It’s getting better and will be just fine by year end.



Why do you only buy and sell bonds through the Jones inventory? Our bond desk will go out to the secondary market with a simple phone call - Sorry!



Do you have many foreign bonds in said inventory? That is 3.

Although, for my typical client, we are better off buying a foreign bond fund than an individual one.



Although there are breakpoints on bonds in your system, why doesn’t that savings get passed on to the customer? I’m not following you here. Do you discount your services? Should I make 1 point on a 15 year bond? Oh, I see, I should charge a 1% wrap on a 15 year bond instead.



Why does Jones insure AAA rated bonds, and pay the customer a lower coupon rate than the uninsured version of the same AAA rated bond bought and sold in the open market? You are mistaken, my friend.



Why is Jones the only firm interested in buying these insured bonds back, albeit at a significant discount? The traders look at the open market and if there is a higher bid than ours, then the bond is sold elsewhere. Unfortunately there isn’t a large market for 10-25k pieces.



Who keeps the 250bp haircut on VA sales? This is a good question, but does not pertain to the initial comment.



How does an A share annuity benefit the client? In the same manner that a B share annuity does, with lower ongoing expenses.



Why are you encouraged to sell fund families such as Federated, Goldman Sachs and Hartford, when they are clearly lower-tier managers who regularly underperform their peers? Goldman Sachs is a lower tier firm? Tell that to Bill Gates. While both Hartford and Federated have some lower tier funds, they have a couple of very fine funds. But again, how does this pertain to the initial comment?



Why are your money market rates so laughably low?

That should be a good start towards your education.

As for A-Share Annuities they are great for missing breakpoints. So a client comes in with $250,000. You put $100,000 into an A-Share Annuity with Protective and then put $85,000 with A-Share American Funds (because Protective doesn’t have American Funds in their VA product) and then $65,000 into secondary UIT’s (net 4.5) and DCA the interest into the A-Share American Funds. That’s what they call diversification at Jones!

[quote=csmelnix]

Incredible - what the trick was moron was:

Drop a portion in a UIT that matures in 5, 7, 10 years - reinvest the dividend into another product. Coming from Jones we all should discount everything you say out right - IRREGARDLESS.

Keep denying the reality it only keeps us chuckling stupid.

[quote=munytalks] [quote=Incredible Hulk] [quote=munytalks] [quote=Philo Kvetch]

[quote=Incredible Hulk]Spiked - you are the type of broker that when leaving, the remaining IRs say “he was a compliance issue” You are a joke, and if only your clients could find out whose pocket you were looking out for.[/quote]

And just whose pocket are you looking out for? Did you get into the brokerage business to wear a hair shirt and do good works for the poor? Do you put your earnings into the EDJ poor box and preach the gospel according to St. Louis?

[/quote]

Spiked-

You have been very bad… you will now recite 3 Our Bachmann’s, and 4 Hail Weddle’s…

(Borrowed this from Devoted…)

P.S. On the annuity stuff they don’t tell you… AIG also has a “C” share annuity with a minimum guarantee. No upfront, no surrender fees… if the Market Value doesn’t go up, death benefit still pays 3% compound interest. Up to age 90! They call it the 'super CD".

[/quote] If a Jones broker doesn’t know about this annuity, it is their fault. It has nothing to do with hiding it from us. I have a number of these on the books. BTW there is a 1% CDSC on that for a year.[/quote]

Did not mean to imply that the firm “hides” it from you, I was simply letting others know it is there… I knew a 14 year Vet who did not know about it.

Okay, quiz for you then… does Jones have a Bonus Annuity Product available?

Starka raised a valid point about A share annuities. If they are in the best interest of the client, then why, particularly in today’s regulatory oversight environment, is Jones the only shop of any size to offer them? And there’s another practice at Jones that also should bring some inquiries: When a client goes into a margin debit situation, Jones does not transfer $ from the cash money market to cover the debit. They charge the client interest on the debit at a much higher rate than the money market pays. I am not aware of other firms doing this, but it seems the best interest of the client is again ignored here.

As for A-Share Annuities they are great for missing breakpoints. So a client comes in with $250,000. You put $100,000 into an A-Share Annuity with Protective and then put $85,000 with A-Share American Funds (because Protective doesn’t have American Funds in their VA product) and then $65,000 into secondary UIT’s (net 4.5) and DCA the interest into the A-Share American Funds. That’s what they call diversification at Jones!

Incredible, go back and do your homework again.

"You're worng" is not a valid response when 1) You can't rebut a point and 2) I'm correct.

Nice try though.  When you can't defend your position, obfuscate.

(Wow.  Three whole accounts with your trust department.  You don't even know what you were asked, do you?)

Incredible - you just proved my point with your rebuttal - thank you.

The "trick" stupid was just what the JONES RL was teaching us new guys.  The "trick" is one of the many bullsh*t stories that takes place with Jones yet they continue to preach "what's best for the client" - maybe if you just opened your eyes you would have seen how I phrased that.

BTW - your rebuttal to Starka was  - have another glass because you are almost Jones green.

Incredible, why do you think you need a dictionary (which you've admitted that you're 'too lazy' to go retrieve) to have a minimal command of the English language?

When you muster the energy to go find your dictionary, look for that copy of the dictionary of financial terms that you were given at KYC class.  You apparently need a lot of help there as well.