donatello:

Why do Jones people stay at Jones? Fear (or planned ingnorance), for many. That’s why they really do it. They are too afraid to even look at other firms because it sets up the conundrum, and then the Jones lies become real. The newbies you can understand because it takes a while to figure out all the lies. When faced with the “real”, they have to make an ethical choice…stay with the lie, or face it and react. They are told they are the only ethical ones. Now what when they find out different? They have to be unethical to stay. Talk to ANY broker at Jones longer than 6 yrs can sell, and you will see the fear. It is prevalent. And I can’t stand Eddie Jones, let me make that perfectly clear… And I started looking because of BAD regional leaders. They probably will never figure that role out. I don’t like EDJ because they lead good people down a path of lies. Only way to know if what I am saying is true is investigate for yourself. Go visit another firm. You’ll see… or are you scared???

Go get 'em D-Money!

[quote=donatello]

Why do Jones people stay at Jones? Fear (or planned ingnorance), for many. That's why they really do it. They are too afraid to even look at other firms because it sets up the conundrum, and then the Jones lies become real. The newbies you can understand because it takes a while to figure out all the lies.  When faced with the "real", they have to make an ethical choice....stay with the lie, or face it and react. They are told they are the only ethical ones. Now what when they find out different? They have to be unethical to stay. Talk to ANY broker at Jones longer than 6 yrs can sell, and you will see the fear. It is prevalent. And I can't stand Eddie Jones, let me make that perfectly clear.... And I started looking because of BAD regional leaders. They probably will never figure that role out. I don't like EDJ because they lead good people down a path of lies. Only way to know if what I am saying is true is investigate for yourself. Go visit another firm. You'll see..... or are you scared???

[/quote]   Jones people stay at Jones because they like it.  The ones that don't, leave.  They go to another brokerage firm, they go indy, they switch careers.  Just like you did.    So, now you think that you are more ethical because your B/D is LPL or RJ?  Would you be more ethical if you were at, say, Merrill Lynch or UBS?  C'mon, that's weak and you know it.    I'm one of those guys that has been at Jones more than 6 years.  I'm still waiting to be lied to.  I don't live with fear.  When I think about those guys in my region that are out more than your magical 6 years, I don't see fear.  I see contentment.  They're a lot like me.  I enjoy coming to my office, calling my clients and prospects, and helping them reach their goals.  I know that I'm not going to attract everyone.  I know that I'm probably not going to get a lot of $5 mil clients.  Yet.  I also know that for every  $5 million account, there are 100 $100,000 accounts.  I know that there are good and bad brokers in every firm.  I do my best to not be considered one of the bad ones.    I've had two RLs in my time.  One is a nice guy, but not the guy I'd send my parents to if I left the biz.  The other, and current, guy is great.  Runs a great biz that he started from scratch.  Works harder than anyone else in the region.  I know three other RLs personally.  All of them are stand up guys who are the model of how an office should be run.  I think Jones does have that role figured out.  Are there bad RLs out there?  Yep.  Evidently you had one.  Does that mean the firm lies to us?  No.     Maybe I'm just naive and I've had too much of the kool-aid, but will you expound for me on this path of lies I'm being led down?  I'd hate to get led astray.      

Spacey-Have you ever put any thought into the pyramid scheme Jones is running? Bottom feeds the top. It is one of the most successful in the nation as far a “schemes” go. How many newbies that became financial ruins did the GP call you about and express deep sorrow over his passing. You know lots of GP’s, right? You were a home office guy.

  Spacey, you've been lied to many times over, but just don't want to admit it. How about running your own business? The most basic one out there. Free trips? And you don't hate to get led astray....right now it is the necessary course for you until you get bigger.   If you'll notice above, I did not put myself as more ethical than you....it's usually the other way around. I think you are probably very ethical, as am I. And most RL's are running little fifedoms....the home office is trying to deal with that and has been for a very long time. It's not a secret.

Donatello:

  Every brokerage firm runs the "bottom feeds the top" model.  When I was at Pru, we loved it when a broker died and left the business, so much more assets for the rest of us.  There are many brokers that I am aware of that have entire books made up of assets of dead brokers.  It happens at every firm that I am aware of.    As for why they stay at Jones, I stayed for 16 years and enjoyed my life there.  It was only when I saw the course that Jones was taking on fees and managed money under the leadership of Doug Hill that I packed up and left.  When you don't enjoy going to work in the morning is when you should pack it in.   Everybody has that time.  It might be 65 or it might be 35.   IndyEDJ

IndyEDJ-not every firm runs the Amway culture with the pyramid scheme, but that’s neither here not there. I understand why people stay…but you do see very few “smart ones” anymore. We saw ten producers out of my region leave in two years. I left when Weddle opened his mouth on his first broadcast and said: “First and foremost, we are a distributor.” I wanted more…I was bored. Doug Hill was the cake (and to some degree Bachmann)…and Weddle was the icing. I saw Doug Hill beg for his job back from the attny general and then announce it to his executive committee. Now that was history being made! Then he flew off to New Orleans on the very last day of his promise to the IR’s there. What a guy!

  Agreed everyone has their time. The old Jones personality test person lingers in me... the need to save them. Forgive me. It is not their time.

[quote=donatello]Spacey-Have you ever put any thought into the pyramid scheme Jones is running? Bottom feeds the top. It is one of the most successful in the nation as far a “schemes” go. How many newbies that became financial ruins did the GP call you about and express deep sorrow over his passing. You know lots of GP’s, right? You were a home office guy.

  Spacey, you've been lied to many times over, but just don't want to admit it. How about running your own business? The most basic one out there. Free trips? And you don't hate to get led astray....right now it is the necessary course for you until you get bigger.   If you'll notice above, I did not put myself as more ethical than you....it's usually the other way around. I think you are probably very ethical, as am I. And most RL's are running little fifedoms....the home office is trying to deal with that and has been for a very long time. It's not a secret.[/quote]

Donatello...it is you who are naive...EVERY major and regional firm feeds its established producers with the leavings from failed trainees(and advisors who transfer or otherwise leave the business).  In many branches it's considered to be a standard perk for top producers and producing BOM's and sales managers.  Like it or not that's just how things work.

Perhaps Spiffy is happy at Jones because he spent a number of years in home office before he went into the field...so he already knew the nature of the game before he went out there.

You know, I have put some thought into the “pyramid scheme” that Jones runs.  And I realized quickly at what point in the pyramid I wanted to be.  I started as the low man on the pyramid.  A home office paper pusher.  Switched jobs, got LP.  Farther up the pyramid.  But, I wanted more out of my life than that.  So, I went to the field.  A little farther up the pyramid I go.  Bonuses, trips (not free if you include the taxes), etc.  Just a little further.  Someday I hope to see Spaceman Spiff, GP on my biz card.  Close to the top of the pyramid.  If you are going to live in the pyramid you have to know where the best view is and shoot for that.  Or, you can go searching for different pyramids. 

  I do run my own business.  The difference between my business and your business is the same as an Applebee's owner vs. a mom and pop restaurant.  The Applebee's owner has to stick with the corporate menu.  The mom and pop can sell whatever they want.  Both are business owners.  Each have a different set of pros and cons.    RL run little fifedoms just like BOMs run their little worlds at the wirehouses.  Someone has to take on that responsibility.  Some think they are the master of the universe, others run a benevolent dictatorship, some (like mine) don't get a power trip on when they get the nod.  You're painting all RLs with a wide brush based on your personal experience.    I still don't think anyone has lied to me.  When I was in the home office I used to get bonuses every trimester.  Come to work, do your job, get a bonus.  Kind of nice.  But, the IRS took 45% off the top.  Does that mean that someone lied to me about the size of my bonus?  No.  Did I say "I don't want the bonus because I don't want to pay the taxes"?  No.  You adjust your expectations for reality and move on.  The same with trips.  They are a bonus.  They have to be taxed.  Maybe you weren't able to recognize that, but it didn't take me long to make the connection.  So the person out there that says Jones is lying to them about free trips didn't read the "prospectus".  It CLEARLY says in every program book that we get that taxes are due.  They tell you when they are taken out and they tell you about how much to expect.  It's been that way for as long as I've been reading those books, which is about 8 years now.  So, Jones didn't lie to you, you just didn't do your homework.   I think what has happened here is that it's easier to blame Jones (or insert any other company name here) for everything negative that has happened in your brokerage career than yourself.  Some other guy (like me) got an office and you didn't, so you had to start from scratch.  Some guy in your region quit and you didn't get his clients, so you had to struggle a little more.  You didn't read the program book and got suprised when the taxes came out, so you didn't get that $1500 and you had to work harder.  I'm sure there are other things that happened that you feel Jones lied to you about.  The question I'd ask you is this...did they lie to you, or did you assume you knew more than you really did?

Easy Spacey-touched a nerve. You are right about a few surprises…only home office people know the ins and outs of what to do every time. They are taught by the masters… the GP’s.

  Did I say what happened to me at Jones was negative?...my bad. Was I expressing blame? For what? Who said I struggled? I was stating facts, not emotions. My career was excellent and is excellent. Did I work hard? Not in the same sense you would define it---but smart. But Jones lies to all. I despise the lies. That's a fact. Not everything they tell you can be checked out unless you have an inside to the place----like you. You missed the point. I'm glad you had the smarts to get the posh office. Do I wish I was as lucky as you?---don't know...I wasn't. I built every dollar. Hopefully,  because of your ingenuity, you'll be the next Weddle. That is my wish for you.

I don’t see where the bottom feeds the top.

I think those of us that are profitable are feeding those offices that aren't.  I am not at the very top but happy with where I am and I don't feel bad that someone else maybe works harder and does better.

[quote=donatello]Easy Spacey-touched a nerve. You are right about a few surprises…only home office people know the ins and outs of what to do every time. They are taught by the masters… the GP’s.

  Did I say what happened to me at Jones was negative?...my bad. Was I expressing blame? For what? Who said I struggled? I was stating facts, not emotions. My career was excellent and is excellent. Did I work hard? Not in the same sense you would define it---but smart. But Jones lies to all. I despise the lies. That's a fact. Not everything they tell you can be checked out unless you have an inside to the place----like you. You missed the point. I'm glad you had the smarts to get the posh office. Do I wish I was as lucky as you?---don't know...I wasn't. I built every dollar. Hopefully,  because of your ingenuity, you'll be the next Weddle. That is my wish for you.[/quote]   Big D, I never worked in the home office.  I've built my own book.  Please tell me the lies I need to know about.  It will be interesting to hear them.  And please don't use the "you're not really a business owner" line, or the "Jones keep 60%" thing, or whatever.  I know all that.  I knew it all before I was hired.  Yes, there have been a few little surprises.  I was surprised when I found out I wouldn't have e-mail.  But that has changed now (and now I realize that I don't use it very much in this job).  I was surprised at how hard it is to build a book.  But every person I talked to before signing on (probably 10 people) told me it would be damn near impossible to make it - but that if I did it would be well worth it.  I was surprised at how this profession really, truly is a "sales" job in the early years - even though everyone told me that, and it was in big, bold print on every new-hire piece of literature they gave me.  Jones is into recruiting - passionately - but less-so in my region.  At first I thought it was a bit much, but after reading so much about the industry and the business, I udnerstand why we have to grow (we do it organically, other firms just buy other firms - neither right or wrong - but if you think the "newbies" that don't make it "suffer" from the merciless treatment by the Green Machine, try working for a firm that gets bought out and the bottom 25% are lopped off - again just doing it different ways).   I used to think Jones was SOOOOOO different than other firms.  Maybe our culture is a little different, maybe we have to control or FA's a bit more to protect the one-man office structure.  But at the end of the day, we are not THAT much different than most other regional and wirehouse firms (payout, structure, product, etc.).  Yes, we do not swim upstream like the big boys.  But again, that is clearly stated as one of our mantras.  We serve the upper middle class, and we serve them very well.  I actually like that.  I don't know if I want to work with the ultra-wealthy.  I like serving the blue-collar guy that amassed $500K-1mm.  I have larger accounts, but not many.  But, most on this board don't either.  I have several friends at UBS and Merrill and MS.  My average account size is not much smaller than theirs - mostly due to their time in the biz (being longer than mine).  The problem with many Jones guys is that they buy the doorknocking, $5K bond selling strategy hook, line, and sinker.  I could not possibly make it in this business opening accounts $5K at a time.  But I know that.  I have done the math.  It is almost impossible unless you are a machine.  You need to swim upstream, even early in your career.  But most guys don't get that.    So, I was rather long-winded.  But I am still curious what the lies are that I am living.  Please enlighten me.

24-You are one of the smart ones. You won’t last there, but build it big while you are there. Don’t sell Eddie too much to your clients…sell you. It moves easy.

  Since this is my first and only time to blog, and I will only be on one week, I want you to know you will do well anywhere. Be picky.   I didn't say YOU were living a lie....it is obvious to me from your response above that you are not. I said Eddie lies....I stand by it....and it happens to everyone who is an IRFA role.   We would be proud to have you when you've built it big enough.

Eddie Lies, Part I

1. Running your own biz 2. No profit center other than IR 3. No proprietary products (added estate features, EDJ mmkt run by Federated) 4. Best research (I'm howling with laughter) 5. Free trips 6. Around since 1800's 7. IRFA does best for clients (30 year bond selling; no acat monitoring; no minimal fee managed accounts; extremely limited investment choices) 8. Good technology (GP's spent $250m so far, budgeted $500m. Vinnie Barbarino has his hands tied behind his back trying to use the keyboard and run dept. Just for comparison, another firm spent $1b two years ago, and is spending $1b this year to keep up....and they were already up!!!) 9. Probabalistic modeling vs. deterministic modeling in wealth outlook forecasting. Would love to see their answer to that. I'll call my "dot-race" friends to compare. 10. Equal Opportunity Employer-now that's truly funny. Class action is coming up. 11. Everybody has opportunity for GP if they do......... (fill in blank) Nepotism (probably spelled wrong, but too lazy to look up) 12. Freedom-will your commission be cut if you do something big brother doesn't want?---another sign of NOT YOUR OWN BIZ. It could be as simple as buying a C share for someone you intend to hold for a year with a small amount (%) of their portfolio. They cut Cshare payout 8% just this last month. 13. Have you ever been in a contest that Eddie changed the rules mid-stream? 14. Home office is there to serve you----really? really??? REALLY????? I would think about that one for a while. 14. Can you build your biz as big as you want? How many $2m producers exist in Eddie? 15. Can you have any account size your want? Think about that before you answer. AGAIN---Are you running your own biz? 16. How many of you, when you started with Eddie, were told they would listen to you--- where you want a new office to go, or that there would be NO new offices close to you, just to have that happen 6 mos later? 17. Did you know that there are more EDJ GPs in the St Louis biz journal in the top paid in the city than any other firm. Did you know that there are more GPs in the home office making well over $1m than any other firm in St Louis. Spacey knows...he's a home office guy. Of all the largest, oldest, most profitable firms in St. Louis, Eddie has more top paid management than any other firm....would be proven easily if they were public. Ask an honest GP ... if you can find one.   Do you still think the pyramid scheme is not real or the same as other firms? Amway...move over.   And Spacey... don't lie to me and tell me none of these are true. I would lose my respect for you. Same to you 24. Brian-don't bother to answer...go watch the third season of LOST instead. Never mind, I'm going to.   Sorry so long--my pen is still flying off page at you drawing line in sand....but I'm bored with it. Again I say, you know this.

[quote=donatello]

Eddie Lies, Part I

1. Running your own biz - Like I said before, it is my biz.  Just more like Applebee's rather than the little Italian place down the road. 2. No profit center other than IR - This one does bug me, but not enough to lose any sleep over.  I hope that they have a lot of income streams coming in besides the 60% split with the FAs. 3. No proprietary products (added estate features, EDJ mmkt run by Federated) - I'll disagree with this one.  Added estate features and the Federated MMKT don't equal proprietary products.  An EDJ Growth and Income fund would be a proprietary product. 4. Best research (I'm howling with laughter) - I don't know that I've ever heard anyone say we have the best research.  I think when you understand what type of research they are doing, you realize they are pretty good.  With some exceptions. 5. Free trips - Again, this was you not reading the trip book. 6. Around since 1800's - Jones has stopped using this one.  It was common practice back when they bought that company to use their starting date.  But it didn't ring true anymore. 7. IRFA does best for clients (30 year bond selling; no acat monitoring; no minimal fee managed accounts; extremely limited investment choices) - There's not a brokerage firm out there that doesn't think they do what is best for the clients.  And they think they do it better than anyone else.  Do you really think the clients care about ACAT monitoring?  Investments are a dime a dozen.  At the end of the day (or year) it is about putting returns on the table.  I don't believe you have to have a fancy set of investments to wow a client as long as you are growing his account at a rate he is pleased with.  Managed accounts, fee based, structured products, options, blah blah blah.  They're all tools to get you where you want to go.  I've never had a client walk into my office and tell me they want a minimal fee managed account.  Usually they don't know what they want or need, so they ask me for advice.  8. Good technology (GP's spent $250m so far, budgeted $500m. Vinnie Barbarino has his hands tied behind his back trying to use the keyboard and run dept. Just for comparison, another firm spent $1b two years ago, and is spending $1b this year to keep up....and they were already up!!!) - Our technology is catching up.  I'll give you this one.  We've made more changes in the last 12 months than in my first 10 years with the firm.  It's quite refreshing.  9. Probabalistic modeling vs. deterministic modeling in wealth outlook forecasting. Would love to see their answer to that. I'll call my "dot-race" friends to compare. - I believe you are talking about Monte Carlo vs. straight compounding.  If that is true, I agree with you.  The SunGuard software we use has the tool, but they haven't given it to the masses yet.  From what I've been told it is getting released after the first of the year.  10. Equal Opportunity Employer-now that's truly funny. Class action is coming up. - You know the demographic makeup of Jones?  Funny, cause I don't have those statistics.  I'd be willing to be that Jones doesn't look much different than most Midwest brokerage firms.  I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. 11. Everybody has opportunity for GP if they do......... (fill in blank) Nepotism (probably spelled wrong, but too lazy to look up) - Just like everyone at Firm XYZ has the opportunity to climb the corporate ladder.  I'd love to be a GP, but there are just some things I won't do to get there.  Maybe that means I won't ever get it.  So be it.  12. Freedom-will your commission be cut if you do something big brother doesn't want?---another sign of NOT YOUR OWN BIZ. It could be as simple as buying a C share for someone you intend to hold for a year with a small amount (%) of their portfolio. They cut Cshare payout 8% just this last month. - Really?  Huh, I must have missed that memo.  Oh, wait, no I just checked.  You're wrong.  Still a 35% payout on C shares.  Just like it has been for a long time.  13. Have you ever been in a contest that Eddie changed the rules mid-stream? - No.  14. Home office is there to serve you----really? really??? REALLY????? I would think about that one for a while. - As a former Home office guy, I would say yes they are.  Most of them realize that they are there to serve me, but ultimately the clients.  I'd rather they think about the clients than me.  14. Can you build your biz as big as you want? How many $2m producers exist in Eddie? - We've had a handful of $2 mil producers at Jones.  Added a new one this year.  How many $2 mil producers are there at other firms who did it on their own.  When I read in RR about those mega producers they are usually part of a team.  So the TEAM did $2 mil, not the individual FA. 15. Can you have any account size your want? Think about that before you answer. AGAIN---Are you running your own biz? - Yes, I can.  As far as I know.  I think I've heard (fourth or fifth person) of Jones not wanting to take on a very large account.  But in my biz, if I want to start a $100 account or a $10 million account, I can.  16. How many of you, when you started with Eddie, were told they would listen to you--- where you want a new office to go, or that there would be NO new offices close to you, just to have that happen 6 mos later? - Um, nobody in the last probably 10 years.  Those days are gone.  17. Did you know that there are more EDJ GPs in the St Louis biz journal in the top paid in the city than any other firm. Did you know that there are more GPs in the home office making well over $1m than any other firm in St Louis. Spacey knows...he's a home office guy. Of all the largest, oldest, most profitable firms in St. Louis, Eddie has more top paid management than any other firm....would be proven easily if they were public. Ask an honest GP ... if you can find one. - Good for them.  They catch some heat about that article every year.  Problem is that there aren't that many large companies whose headquarters are in STL.  If I were Weddle and I were comparing my compensation package to say the big wigs who run ML or MS, I'd be pissed.  Cause I'm missing some serious cash compared to those guys.    Do you still think the pyramid scheme is not real or the same as other firms? Amway...move over.   And Spacey... don't lie to me and tell me none of these are true. I would lose my respect for you. Same to you 24. Brian-don't bother to answer...go watch the third season of LOST instead. Never mind, I'm going to.   Sorry so long--my pen is still flying off page at you drawing line in sand....but I'm bored with it. Again I say, you know this.[/quote]   If you're not indy, then a lot of the lies you believe Jones told you are being told to you by your current firm.  They just have a different spin on them.  You just haven't been with them long enough to get pissed off at them and go searching for the lies.  Whoever your current firm is I promise you that they are not perfect.  If they tell you they are, you need to leave. 

[quote=donatello]

Eddie Lies, Part I

1. Running your own biz 2. No profit center other than IR 3. No proprietary products (added estate features, EDJ mmkt run by Federated) 4. Best research (I'm howling with laughter) 5. Free trips 6. Around since 1800's 7. IRFA does best for clients (30 year bond selling; no acat monitoring; no minimal fee managed accounts; extremely limited investment choices) 8. Good technology (GP's spent $250m so far, budgeted $500m. Vinnie Barbarino has his hands tied behind his back trying to use the keyboard and run dept. Just for comparison, another firm spent $1b two years ago, and is spending $1b this year to keep up....and they were already up!!!) 9. Probabalistic modeling vs. deterministic modeling in wealth outlook forecasting. Would love to see their answer to that. I'll call my "dot-race" friends to compare. 10. Equal Opportunity Employer-now that's truly funny. Class action is coming up. 11. Everybody has opportunity for GP if they do......... (fill in blank) Nepotism (probably spelled wrong, but too lazy to look up) 12. Freedom-will your commission be cut if you do something big brother doesn't want?---another sign of NOT YOUR OWN BIZ. It could be as simple as buying a C share for someone you intend to hold for a year with a small amount (%) of their portfolio. They cut Cshare payout 8% just this last month. 13. Have you ever been in a contest that Eddie changed the rules mid-stream? 14. Home office is there to serve you----really? really??? REALLY????? I would think about that one for a while. 14. Can you build your biz as big as you want? How many $2m producers exist in Eddie? 15. Can you have any account size your want? Think about that before you answer. AGAIN---Are you running your own biz? 16. How many of you, when you started with Eddie, were told they would listen to you--- where you want a new office to go, or that there would be NO new offices close to you, just to have that happen 6 mos later? 17. Did you know that there are more EDJ GPs in the St Louis biz journal in the top paid in the city than any other firm. Did you know that there are more GPs in the home office making well over $1m than any other firm in St Louis. Spacey knows...he's a home office guy. Of all the largest, oldest, most profitable firms in St. Louis, Eddie has more top paid management than any other firm....would be proven easily if they were public. Ask an honest GP ... if you can find one.   Do you still think the pyramid scheme is not real or the same as other firms? Amway...move over.   And Spacey... don't lie to me and tell me none of these are true. I would lose my respect for you. Same to you 24. Brian-don't bother to answer...go watch the third season of LOST instead. Never mind, I'm going to.   Sorry so long--my pen is still flying off page at you drawing line in sand....but I'm bored with it. Again I say, you know this.[/quote]     These are some really good points.. All but the AmWay bit.. That I totally disagree with you on.. Oh well- I STILL like my kool-aid stand.   Miss J