Jones Attrition

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Feb 20, 2007 3:45 pm

Attrition declined to 11.9% overall for 2006. For gross production of $300K - $500K it was 2%, $500K - $750K it was 2%, and above $750K it was 1%.


Apparently the anti-Jones posters here are not making much of an impact. Maybe they should work harder at it.


Feb 20, 2007 4:03 pm

Butkus,


If you think the anti-Jones posters are trying to attritt Jones even more, I think you're wrong.  We simply want people to know what they are truly getting into, not just the rose colored picture that the RL paints at the recruiting lunch or the hype that is pushed at the recruiting broadcasts hosted in the regions every quarter. 


Also, why would the really big-hitters leave other than the ability to really plan for their retirement and to have control of their book.  I heard of a Jones guy in Georgia, top-5 in the firm over $1 million in production, who took a BM job with AG Edwards because he would have control of his book and could sell it when he gets ready to retire.  At Jones he would have to just walk away from it and leave it to someone Jones approves to go into his office.  Probably a GP's relative who couldn't make it on his own.  Having a leader like that leave is certainly significant and you know Jones kept the lid on it the best they could.  "Don't let the new guys learn that someone making so much money could possibly be unhappy at Edward Jones."


Good luck at keeping who you can!!

Feb 20, 2007 4:39 pm

I would like to see the parameters they use to publish the number. IF,before I went to heaven, I mean Independent, I was the last soldier standing from my training class in 2002...with many of my former colleages in the same boat, how can it be?  Let's see, can someone drinking Koolaid help me, hire 250-300 per MONTH, and only grow a couple hundred per year...doesn't sound real good.  That couple hundred, again, is spread across 3 countries.  The success rate would have to be only 10% for a newbie.  Is this good?  I mean, screw the numbers they give out...again...hire 250 per MONTH, and grow by 192 for 06.  Can I get some help with that BUTKUS.

Feb 20, 2007 4:45 pm

Lol, something doesn't add up....

Feb 20, 2007 6:43 pm

I am honestly thankful to God that I did enough due diligence before I entered the business and chose a broker I could start and stay with.


Ed Jones and Ameriprise are NOT places to have a long term career.


AG Edwards is.

Feb 20, 2007 7:36 pm
Butkus:

Attrition declined to 11.9% overall for 2006. For gross production of $300K - $500K it was 2%, $500K - $750K it was 2%, and above $750K it was 1%.



But, today's $192K producer could become a $312K producer in 2-3 years, and the $285K producer might be at $510K in 5 years.  And, that's exactly who keeps leaving.  Jones is a story of the "haves" and "have nots".  Not much in the middle.  That's how it was when I was there, and it doesn't seem much has changed.  I wasn't a $300K producer when I left either, but I sure the hell am now. 

Feb 20, 2007 10:51 pm

Nice Post Butkus (or should I say butt kiss):


Let's examine the numbers you posted.  41.6% of the people that are leaving EDJ are producing over $300,000.  If we go from the 80/20 rule:  2000 reps are producing over $300,000 so therefore Jones is losing 832 producing IR's, oops FA's, per year.  That's 70 FA's per month. 


I'd love to hear the Regional Leader get up and announce we are losing 70 FA's per month of the people that are producing over $300,000.  Mr. ButtKiss you should look into the statistics before you think that they are low!

Feb 20, 2007 10:58 pm

So what is the unimpeachable source of these statistics?

Feb 21, 2007 3:16 am
vbrainy:

AG Edwards is.





AGE is one of the better ones out there, good research department as well.

Feb 21, 2007 9:40 am

12% attrition would be about 1200 per year. I would guess that would include only those with a can sell, where there was some attrition for those who did not pass the Series 7 or make it through Eval/Grad. The numbers seem intuitive to me, and they match my perception for my region.


Perhaps the quality of the anti-Jones posts has something to do with their apparent ineffectiveness.

Feb 21, 2007 11:18 am

Sooth hit the nail on the head.  My last 18 months at EDJ, the top 3 "up and comers" in my region defected.  These guys were Seg 3 or fairly new Seg 4, with a straight up trajectory.  They were frequently touted by the RL, NIRSS and other Seg 5 brokers in the region as the models for us lowly Seg 1 and 2's to emulate.  Same with a new Seg 4 I know in the region next door, he was on conference calls with new IR's and paraded up at the Summer Regional to share his wisdom on how to be a new/new fast starter.


Lots of others left, some of whom would have eventually found success and several who probably never will.  But the ones that matter most, the future 500k-1M producers, are having a hard time justifying staying when they can see all the money they are leaving on the table.


The real big producers occasionally leave, but most of them are enjoying an easy life, so there isn't much incentive to move.  (If you make $250k in Podunk, MO, your standard of living is not going to change if you make $400k, you already hide your spending from your neighbors as it is because you make more than anyone else in your town, plus you only really work about 20 hours a week).


When I could see my peers taking home twice what I did at other firms, using products that could annuitize their business, I couldn't see staying either.  There were other reasons I left, but the main one was I got sick of waiting.  Sure, in 5 more years I would have been cruising at EDJ, but I could do it in a few months somewhere else now. 


I'm by no means a big producer, but my GDC for the year so far is over 60k.  In the last 6 months, I've added over $4m to fee based accounts at an average of 1%.  When I left last year, I'm sure it was as another "failed IR" who "couldn't cut it."  No, actually I was an IR who looked at my future at EDJ and compared it with my future elsewhere, and decided I should be the one with the Fararri, Weddle has enough of them already.

Feb 21, 2007 11:48 am

92% of Segment 3 brokers are with the firm 10 years later.

Feb 21, 2007 12:05 pm
Butkus:

92% of Segment 3 brokers are with the firm 10 years later.


No way I call BS on this made up statistic!

Feb 21, 2007 12:08 pm

In my region we have lost over 20% of our segement 3 and up brokers in the past 2 years. 

Feb 21, 2007 1:12 pm

I think ButtKiss got that statistic when he was sitting in the Acceleration meeting where I remember Jim Reginer stating, "We don't lose anybody once they make it to Segment 3." 


I would also say that the statistic may be true, understanding that most of Jones' IR's have not been with the firm for 10 years.  Jones' growth really happened in the 90's with Sloop running the Growth Department. 


So you take all the old-timers and the kool-aid drinkers who make it past segment 3 and they are skewing the numbers. 

Feb 21, 2007 2:22 pm

I am a comfortable segment three joneser and leaving.....the opportunity cost is simply too high.


How I worked twice as hard for half as much for so long, I have no idea.  I guess I was just another koolaid junkie that was 'snowed' by the bureaucracy that we've come to know as 'Jones'.  Higher 'expectations' (to pay the exorbitant salaries of the 'heads of state'), continual flip-flops on philosophy, countless NASD & SEC violations for me to explain to my clients, etc) have really made life at Jones a whole lot less enjoyable than once promised.  I have made it in my eyes.  I am not a non-hacker, but I have been schooled to their game through experience.  I do between $200k and $250k per annum and live quite comfortably.....but, I will live even more comfortably very soon.


For you guys that are in denial (Butkus), keep sluggin' away.  Nobody (that I know) really gives one damn what you do or whether or not you approve of our defections.  However, when you do wake up and smell the coffee just remember that you heard it here first from people that have worn the very shoes in which you're walking.


Good day. 


Feb 21, 2007 2:54 pm
gad12:
Butkus:

92% of Segment 3 brokers are with the firm 10 years later.


No way I call BS on this made up statistic!



I second that.


I think he meant that 92% of Jones brokers still with the firm after 10 years are segment 3.  (that was a joke)

Feb 21, 2007 9:15 pm

I don't think that stat is too far off. Based on what I have witnessed in

these forums, as well as what I see first-hand in my region, I think the

attrition is very regionalized. In my region (granted we are only about 80

advisors), we have only lost 2 segment 3 and above advisors in the last

year. And I would say that about 75% of those 80 are segment 3 and

above. One of those two people left the industry.



Now, from what it sounds like from posters, there is higher attrition in

other regions. I just don't really get much information from other

regions. But I am sure it is higher than in my region.



I assume that there are about 5000 segment 3 advisors (out of 10,000)

and above (this is wild speculation on my part). If there was 8% attrition,

that would mean about 400 leave every year. I really doubt it is much

higher than that. Despite what you all say in your posts, our advisors are

not leaving in "droves". A buddy of mine that started in 2000 was right

around # 5000 in the company. We now have over 10000. So an

increase of 5000 in 6-7 years is pretty good growth.



This post is merely an attempt to make facts a little more clear. Some of

it is guess work, but I made some pretty educated guesses. I don't hink

it's quite as bad as some "anti-Jonesers" think. My guess is that in certain

areas, defections are infectious. I also think it has to do with regional

leadership and other regional factors. JMO.

Feb 21, 2007 10:47 pm

Broker 24,


Maybe it is not as bad as some of us make it out to be I'll give you that.


But look at the facts of your own post and you'll realize that 92% over 10 yrs as Butkus said is grossly overstated.


Facts


Your region - 80 advisors - 60 of which are seg 3.


2 left last year.  That makes 3.3%  2/60


Multiply by 10 YEARS makes 33.3% are gone.  Not 8% as Butkus claimed.  Meaning 67% after 10 years retention. 


And I believe your region is probably lower turnover than average.  At least it is MUCH lower than my region is.


Also just keeping the facts straight.



Feb 21, 2007 11:05 pm

9753 sales people as of Feb 06, and 6136 as of Feb 2000.  Those numbers are from the SEC filings.   So growth of 600 odd brokers net, per year, in three countries.  Doesn't seem so great, given the numbers that are pumped through training.