World's Smallest Ethics Quiz

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Jul 29, 2005 2:06 pm

Suppose you're making a presentation to a guy about investing $100,000 in a mutual fund.


He says, "That sounds like a good idea, let me talk it over with my wife and I'll get back with you in a couple of days."


One of the following responses is professional the other is "Top Gun" (whatever that means.)  Which is which, you may only use each response once.


I.  That's fine, I wouldn't want you to do it any other way.


II.  Talk it over with your wife?  Who wears the pants in your family?

Jul 29, 2005 2:16 pm

"Talk it over with your wife?  We're halfway there...my wife already told me that I could sell it to you.  I tell you what, just hike up your skirt, grab your balls, and go with me on this one."

Jul 29, 2005 2:30 pm

Isn't it amazing how many people are willing, even eager, to do the cyber equivalent of insulting themselves in public?

Jul 29, 2005 2:42 pm
July 28:

Isn't it amazing how many people are willing, even eager, to do the cyber equivalent of insulting themselves in public?


You do it with almost every one of your posts, PUT.  The sad thing is that you just don't know it.

Jul 29, 2005 2:43 pm

So maybe you are losing a sale because the guy can't give you a
straight forward no. Maybe you could have the oppourtunity to meet with
both and build a stronger relationship. Maybe the guy comes back and
says that the wife liked the idea so much that they want to put more
in. Maybe you act like a used car salesman and force him in, and watch
him bail later at a market bottom. Do what you know is right, and if
you are a creep I would hope that the industry spots and removes you.

Jul 29, 2005 2:47 pm
justaguy:

Do what you know is right, and if you are a creep I would hope that the industry spots and removes you.


How do you suppose the industry would "spot" somebody who is a "creep?"


If a guy says he wants to discuss a decision with his wife what is a "right" thing to do other than saying that that's perfectly fine?

Jul 29, 2005 4:33 pm
July 28:
justaguy:

Do what you know is right, and if you are a creep I would hope that the industry spots and removes you.


How do you suppose the industry would "spot" somebody who is a "creep?"



Look in a mirror, PUT.

Jul 29, 2005 4:37 pm
Duke#1:
July 28:
justaguy:

Do what you know is right, and if you are a creep I would hope that the industry spots and removes you.


How do you suppose the industry would "spot" somebody who is a "creep?"



Look in a mirror, PUT.



What a hoot, yuck, yuck, yuck.  Hey, pull my finger......


The question Duke, was how the industry spots creeps.  Can you contribute at that level?

Jul 29, 2005 4:41 pm

Put, that's a naive question for someone who's supposedly been in the business for any period of time.


Sorry, Guys, for those that said to ignore him.  Mea culpa, mea culpa!

Jul 29, 2005 4:44 pm
Duke#1:

Put, that's a naive question for someone who's supposedly been in the business for any period of time.


Sorry, Guys, for those that said to ignore him.  Mea culpa, mea culpa!



Is there a way to spot a "creep" short of customer complaints?


Do creeps dress a certain way?  Do they have a Scarlet C on their forehead?


Just how would a genius like you spot one before a client cried foul?

Jul 29, 2005 11:58 pm

the industry, or any industry sro is not designed to weed out the "creeps". being a creep is not a crime, and not even always unethical. as far as your hypo scenario, i would tell the guy to talk it over with his wife and get back to me. but i would think " can't you make a decision on your own". not because i'm a chauvinist (sp?) but that's my personality. if my wife wants to invest a 100k in a fund she doesn't need to discuss it with me and i don't with her. she and i are more than capable of making these decisions on our own. i trust her and have full confidence in her decisions.

Jul 30, 2005 5:22 am
hawg:

the industry, or any industry sro is not designed to weed out the "creeps". being a creep is not a crime, and not even always unethical. as far as your hypo scenario, i would tell the guy to talk it over with his wife and get back to me. but i would think " can't you make a decision on your own". not because i'm a chauvinist (sp?) but that's my personality. if my wife wants to invest a 100k in a fund she doesn't need to discuss it with me and i don't with her. she and i are more than capable of making these decisions on our own. i trust her and have full confidence in her decisions.


Can anybody else hear it, listen.......Village People........is it coming in yet?  Yep, that's it, "Macho Macho Man, I wanna be a Macho Man."


The fact that the author is infested with the slacker writing style indicates that his chronological age is less than thirty and his mental age somewhere around ten or eleven.


If he is ever able to get a woman to actually talk to him he will find that they rather appreciate being included in marital decisions of the magnitude of investing--even $1 much less one-hundred grand.

Jul 30, 2005 12:07 pm

hawg says:   i would tell the guy to talk it over with his wife and get back to me.


You must be joking. You are going to let your prospect try to convey your sales presentation to his wife alone at home......without you?  and then hope that he will "get back to you" ?  


I would have suggested that we have a follow up appointment ASAP that "includes" the missing spouse.  How do you know that she isn't the actual decision maker, and by not speaking directly to her you have ticked her off and will never get the account?  How do you know that he isn't just trying to blow you off by using his spouse as an excuse?  You don't know those things until you see the interaction between BOTH spouses, at the same time, while you are making your presentation.  Dreaming that he will accurately convey the details of the investment or investment plan to her and persuade her to accept your proposal is just that.....a dream.  If you let him walk out the door with that dream, you might as well kiss that prospect goodbye.


Sometimes being a financial advisor takes the skills and tact of a marriage couselor.

Jul 30, 2005 12:30 pm

This is why it's good to have adults on this forum--to pose questions and to come along and correct the children.


Looney, first the opportunity to ask for a joint opportunity was not given in the original question although it is certainly viable.


That said, I happen to be one-half of a marriage that involves a wife who would not want to sit through a presentation by you or any other salesperson--but damn sure would want to be consulted about a decision as weighty as a $100,000 investment.


I think that if you have done a decent job of explaining something to Spouse A you do not need to push for an opportunity to make the same presentation again to Spouse B in the presence of Spouse A.


For one thing you are signalling to Spouse A that you do not trust their ability to discuss things with their own spouse--always dangerous.  Second, Spouse A is not telling you no they are simply saying that they want to talk it over with their spouse.


I say the risk of being unimpressive to the wife is greater than the risk of allowing the husband to talk it over in private with her.


How do you feel about this?


You have made a presentation to my wife and me.  She thanks you for your time and says that we'll let you know, that we want to talk about it.


Do you express that you understand and ask when we will let you know or do you follow a Top Gun Producer approach and tell us, "Look, I came all the way out here to talk with you and I want a decision now.  I am going to step out to my car and have a cigarette and when I finish I expect an answer?"

Jul 30, 2005 12:58 pm
Terminator:

Put doesn't know how to close. He is obviously a failed planner!!!


Ah, a Top Gun Producer right here in river city.


If you want to see a real joke go over to that website.


Describing it as immature and childish would be generous.

Jul 30, 2005 2:23 pm

Since I have just finished a grueling yard work session (killing star thistle and beating back the blackberry bushes) I have time to sit, thankfully, in my cool house and play with this scenario. 


Put or whoever said:    That said, I happen to be one-half of a marriage that involves a wife who would not want to sit through a presentation by you or any other salesperson--but damn sure would want to be consulted about a decision as weighty as a $100,000 investment.


Same here, except my husband leaves the investing decisions to me, but also would resent not being consulted.  I have many couples where the wife is the financial decision maker. You can't assume that you are talking to the final authority when you are dealing with one person of a pair.  You also can't assume that they both have the same risk tolerance and goals.  Sometimes when dealing with a couple, I have to walk a very fine line to get a compromise decision that will make everyone happy.


Another very good reason to bring the wifey into the decision making process and face to face with me.... is that at some point it is most likely that the wife will be the survivor. I want to already have a relationship of trust with BOTH of the parties (and their children as well) so that when one of them, usually the husband, goes off into the great beyond, the wife will continue to do business with ME.


I think that if you have done a decent job of explaining something to Spouse A you do not need to push for an opportunity to make the same presentation again to Spouse B in the presence of Spouse A.


For one thing you are signalling to Spouse A that you do not trust their ability to discuss things with their own spouse--always dangerous.  Not if you make the suggestion to have a follow up joint meeting correctly.  The things we discuss with our clients, unless they are already economically astute, are very complex and can easlily be lost in the translation.


Second, Spouse A is not telling you no they are simply saying that they want to talk it over with their spouse. That may be true, but usually I have found that to be a stalling tactic.  I take it myself when I am looking at a large purchase such as a car or piece of equipment and feel pressured to make a decision.  Sometimes clients will stall because the just don't understand what we have said and are reluctant to say so.


I say the risk of being unimpressive to the wife is greater than the risk of allowing the husband to talk it over in private with her.


How do you feel about this?


You have made a presentation to my wife and me.  She thanks you for your time and says that we'll let you know, that we want to talk about it. A very common occurance.


Do you express that you understand and ask when we will let you know or do you follow a Top Gun Producer approach and tell us, "Look, I came all the way out here to talk with you and I want a decision now.  I am going to step out to my car and have a cigarette and when I finish I expect an answer?"


I would say something like this:   "I understand that this is a very important decision and of course you should take your time and discuss it between yourselves. My husband and I would also not make such an important decision without discussing it "....(See I am just like you)   I would also clarify that I have make my point clear:  "This can be a very complex issue/topic/decision. I hope that I have been able to answer all of your questions or concerns.  Is there anything that I can go over/explain/clear up."  I might make a self depreciating comment that because I am close to the issue at hand, whatever it is, that I may not have explained it properly.....(See it is my fault if you don't get it.....not yours).   Give them a few days, call back and ask if they need any more information or suggest another meeting.  In a few days send some illustrations/brochures/literature to reinforce the meetings.  More phone calls.   Soft touch soft touch drip drip drip.   


Not the TOP GUN cram em in the product approach.  Sure I may lose a few prospects, but the ones that I do close are staunch and loyal customers who readily give me referrals to their friends and family.  I probably close about 80% of my prospects.

Jul 30, 2005 2:44 pm

So, can we conclude that you agree with me that salespeople who say things like, "I'm going to step out of the room for a moment to check my voice mail--when I come back I expect you to have made a decision" are not professionals?


By the way, the reason that we both have spouses who want to be involved in the decisions is because we are involved in adult relationships.


Only those who have never been married, or are serially married, believe that the appropriate approach is to act unilaterally in such matters.

Jul 30, 2005 7:27 pm

A top gun producer would never waste his time with a presentation where a decision maker was absent.


Well, that is a good tip for anyone in this business.  Make sure you are talking to the person(s) who are going to make the decision.  Otherwise you are whistling up the wind.

Jul 30, 2005 7:30 pm

Before I spend time on a presentation, I get an agreement that at the end, they have to make a decision. It doesn't have to be yes. No is perfectly ok. It just can't be maybe or think it over.


If you ran that line past me or my spouse you would get your answer before you had time to draw your next breath.  Don't let the door hit ya on the way out.

Jul 30, 2005 8:42 pm

It strikes me that the Top Gun approach to closing the deal is analygous to a guy walking down the street and asking every woman he meets to screw him. 19 out of 20 times you will get slapped in the face and once you will score. Whooo Hoooo! But you just blew off 19 possibly good relationships for the quick screw.



So....no, I am not going to be a Top Gun. I prefer a long lasting, mutually satisfying relationship to a quick laydown.



It is also obvious that the Top Gun method is based on leaders and followers. If you have a client, like the 100K hypothetical in the beginning, the likelyhood is that he/she is a leader. Using the "you'd better make a decision" lead in, is not going to convince a leader personality to go along with you. Just the opposite. Try those tactics and you will never never do business with them.Top Guns prey on the followers, the weak and the uninformed. Just like the guy looking for the quick screw, they use the followers for their immediate gratification $$$$$