Hiring w/o college degree

Jul 18, 2006 9:54 pm

Oops…meant “fine” two posts back.

Jul 18, 2006 10:04 pm

[quote=NASD Newbie]

[quote=menotellname]

Not really.

I have worked for one of the three and gotten offers from 3 of the others without a degree. A degree is simply a piece of paper that clearly states that "I have wasted 4 years of my life".

[/quote]

How many of you who are smart enough to have graduated with a degree, or degrees, agree that they are nothing more than pieces of paper that clearly state that you wasted four years of your life?

If you believe this guy works for a wirehouse and had offers from three others please contact me regarding buying the Brooklyn Bridge which was recently put up for sale by a cash strapped City of New York.

First Investor might have hired him, perhaps Waddell & Reed. But there is no way for a top six firm.

Perhaps SW Bach--are they still around?

[/quote]

Put, Put, Put...I have more on the ball than you. I DID NOT start my career off of illegal inside trading tips in Texas (like you). Trust me, Put.

Keep up...I was at one of the "Big 6" three years ago.

Anyway...as a member of a select group of highly intelligent people I found this article in our most recent "bulletin":

If You're So Smart...

By Marty Nemko

You'd think that the supersmart have it made. Not so. Being highly intelligent comes with surprising workplace burdens, as I've learned during 20 years as a career coach specializing in intellectually gifted adults. Here are suggestions I've made that clients have found most helpful:

Confirm your capability. Most gifted adults wonder if they're really that smart. Well, check it out: take an intelligence (IQ) test. A high score can give you confidence that will last a lifetime. (130 is a widely used threshold score for giftedness.)

Today, IQ tests are often disparaged, but a large body of rigorous research indicates that IQ is a valid measure of the ability to think in complex, abstract terms, and to learn quickly--critical attributes in school, work, and life.

IQ isn't a perfect gauge; it doesn't measure drive or emotional intelligence, for example. But many studies, such as those by Linda Gottfredson of the University of Delaware, have found that IQ is the single best predictor of job performance.

Want to take an intelligence test? Go to http://www.mensa.org, the world's largest organization of intellectually gifted people.

Embrace your ability. Many people try to hide their intelligence, even from themselves. Intelligence is a wonderful attribute. Certainly don't brag, but inside, feel good about it.

Use your intelligence well. As with all power, intellectual power is only admirable when used for positive purposes. What's the best way to use that great mind of yours? To try to cure a disease? Solve a social ill? Start a company that provides an important service?

Even in small things, use your mind well. Help co-workers, neighbors, even strangers-problems that are impossible for others to solve are easy for you. Noblesse oblige.

Find kindred spirits. Many gifted people feel like outsiders. That's because they do think differently, more rigorously, than average people. Make the effort to find a job at a place that employs many brilliant people: top biotech companies, consulting firms, financial institutions, think tanks, law firms, and universities.

However, avoid teaching except at elite universities. The gap between your intellect and your students' will frustrate you all.

Consider avocations likely to attract smart people book clubs, Mensa, groups that play intellectual games, for example, chess clubs, etc.

Trust yourself more than experts. (including me) Yes, consider experts' input, but don't automatically let their views trump yours. A consultant may recommend, for example, that your company convert to a new accounting system.

Your gifted mind can probably take into consideration many factors beyond what the consultant can. Reserve the final judgment for yourself.

You can afford to be a dabbler. Society denigrates them as "jacks of all trades, masters of none." True--but not for the intellectually gifted.

Many of the brilliant people I know have significant accomplishments in multiple areas. Feel free to delve into a range of endeavors. Just monitor yourself to see that you are indeed accomplishing things.

If you're self-motivated, avoid school. Sure, that sounds controversial, but even elite colleges and graduate schools are designed for the bright but not brilliant.

If you're a self-motivated learner, you'll probably learn more-and focus more on what you care about--by taking charge of your own learning. Read what you want to read, for instance, get mentored by those whom you respect, try out your learning with self-designed projects, etc.

Self-teachers who describe their learning process to prospective employers are often hired over more conventional applicants, who required the handholding of school and whose learning is usually more theoretical and less relevant in the workplace.

Work with people whose minds match yours. If you work with weak co-workers or bosses, you'll be forced into a Hobson's Choice: intimidate them or stifle yourself. Normal people drive the gifted crazy. It's worth taking the time to seek out a workplace filled with smart people that you end up among your intellectual peers.

If you already work at a stifling job, but aren't ready to leave, try to brand yourself as The Brain while allowing others to save face. You might say something like, "I love trying to figure out the thorny problems. If you ever have one, I'd enjoy taking a crack at it."

Consider self-employment. Brilliant people often do well as consultants to high-level businesses, non-profits, and universities because those jobs requires the ability to quickly solve problems clients couldn't solve themselves, despite inside knowledge of their operation.

Beware of starting a business in which you try to create a new product. Success in such ventures depends on many factors beyond your control.

Unless you have pockets deep enough to afford multiple failures, or are a genius at convincing others to fund you, you will likely end up broke, no matter how smart you are.

Resist calls for balance. Brilliant people find themselves driven to explore things deeply, often to the exclusion of "normal" things, like family time, a clean and neat house, watching TV, or going to parties.

Embrace your intensity. Don't let people denigrate you as workaholic, or criticize you for lacking balance. What you are is productive. Other people may be jealous that they lack your drive and intellect.

Don't expect to be a genius all the time. Even geniuses sometimes want to goof around. And sometimes you simply won't be at your best. No matter how brilliant you are, you're also human. Allow yourself human failings.

Find the right person to love you. One of the signature characteristics of genius is that they like to use their brain during most of their waking hours.

In contrast, average people, after a 40-hour workweek, are more likely to want to veg out and turn to mindless activities, for example, cleaning house or enjoying a family game of Monopoly.

So, you probably need to find a romantic partner who is very bright and who won't insist that at the 40-hour mark, you turn off your brain.

Jul 18, 2006 10:13 pm

Whatever, I ask again. How many of you who were bright enough to understand that getting a degree is important in life figure that yours is/are nothing more than pieces of paper indicating that you wasted four or more years of your life?

If you have a degree do you figure that you wasted those years even though an elementary school drop out can qualify for your job?

Jul 18, 2006 11:37 pm

[quote=NASD Newbie]

Whatever, I ask again. How many of you who were bright enough to understand that getting a degree is important in life figure that yours is/are nothing more than pieces of paper indicating that you wasted four or more years of your life?

If you have a degree do you figure that you wasted those years even though an elementary school drop out can qualify for your job?

[/quote]

Again...your degree is worth nothing more than the paper that it is written on.

According to Wikipedia:

"A large meta-analysis (Hunter and Hunter, 1984) which pooled validity results across many studies encompassing thousands of workers (32,124 for cognitive ability), reports that the
validity of cognitive ability for entry-level jobs is (0.54)
larger than any other measure including job tryout (0.44)
experience (0.18)
interview (0.14)
age (?0.01)
education (0.10)
and biographical inventory (0.37)

Because higher test validity allows more accurate prediction of job performance, companies have a strong incentive to use cognitive ability tests to select and promote employees. IQ thus has high practical validity in economic terms. The utility of using one measure over another is proportional to the difference in their validities, all else equal. This is one economic reason why companies use job interviews (validity 0.14) rather than randomly selecting employees (validity 0.0)."

Also...to answer your question:

Since the courts forbade intelligence testing of job applicants, prospective employers have little they can use to evaluate candidates. First they have a stack of resumes that are largely meaningless. For any high level position, the resume and the "facts" cited are obviously completely one-sided. Nobody will put on their resume, "I'm dumb as a stick and kept my last job only because I was skilled at sucking up to the boss." Nobody brags that, "I'm a professional chair warmer and have the bachelor's degree to prove it!" As such, I have found that most degreed persons are no more than "professional chair warmers".

Jul 18, 2006 11:48 pm

One expects nothing less than these types of frenzied defenses of the fact that they are not bright enough to know that getting a degree is very important in the United States of America.

When this creature washes out of the brokerage industry he will find it impossible to return because of the move from CFP to only grant the designation to those who have degrees.

No NASD member worth their salt will hire a guy or gal who will be blocked from obtaining the CFP designation. It will be the education requirement that firms have wanted but been afraid to implement.

Go ten years into your career. The market has had a bad streak and you find yourself embroiled in arbitration claims. You will be making your case to three panelists--all of whom are formally educated.

You will be sitting in the witness chair, having been sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The attorney who is representing your client will ask, "Mr. Jones would you please detail your education for the panel."

The attorney will then stop and listen--he, of course, will already know that you have virtually no formal education.

Do you think you can put a smile face on that for the panel? Can you understand why real brokerage firms won't touch you with a ten foot pole and/or will fire you if you don't hit numbers right away.

You are a ticking time bomb who should be driving a UPS truck instead of advising people about what to do with their hard earned money.

Jul 19, 2006 12:00 am