Contract Negotiation W/ UBS

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Aug 22, 2006 11:28 pm

I am having my "Final" interview with the Divisional Hiring Officer at UBS this week. The original job post I responded to mentioned a salary range of $80-125k. Maybe a little about me is in order. I have never actually had a salary before. For the last 8 years I have been a futures and options broker. 5 of those years I owned my own firm. I got tired of constantly having to replace clients that were blown up. At any rate I earned the top of their salary range the first year I was a broker. Obviously every year after that has been better. I want to eventually just be straight commission, but my expenses are higher than the top of $125K.... wife, kid, boat, mortgage etc. I am willing to dip into my savings until my production catches up. I do however feel that as a proven producer I should be offered the top of their range. Any advice on how to convey this? Also are these higher starting ranges that are designed to bring over  experienced professionals from other fields starting to become the norm? I noticed in other posts that many were offered signifigantly less. Thanks for any input.

Aug 22, 2006 11:34 pm

You blew up your book and your firm, and you're getting another chance. Get rid of the GD boat and be happy with what you get.

Aug 23, 2006 2:05 am

I never said I blew up the firm. I still have the firm and actually am selling it to my branch manager. I'm just burnt out on the volatility of the futures market. Clients blow up in high risk futures trades. Nothing I can do about that. Maybe you should get off your high horse and quit being a jerk. Being offered a job isn't a "second chance". Be happy with what you get? Obviously you are not a very big producer. Why should I ever settle? Are you recommending not getting the best pay possible?

Aug 23, 2006 2:10 am

Also Knucklehead...which you obviously are. The boat is paid for and fits nicely at the dock in front of my house. It's always amazing to me how people like you jump on someone looking for help with nothing but negativity. Unfortunately for you... you will probably be bitter like this to the very end. Maybe some day you can grow up and not use the internet as your own little place to bash people you would never dream of bashing in person.

Aug 23, 2006 7:40 am

People who own boats that are docked at their homes refer to the boat being at the dock in the back of their house, not the front.


Nobody with waterside property talks about the water side as being the front.  The front of your house is the side with the street.


Just an observation from somebody with their BS sensor always on.

Aug 23, 2006 7:44 am

Someone who tells tales as tall as yours, Putsy, should be considered an authority on how to BS.

Aug 23, 2006 7:45 am

Another question.


Why are you not getting a more traditional "deal" to bring your practice to UBS?  Is your entire book gone?


Do you appreciate that gathering AUM is a far cry from running your own options and futures business?  How about customer complaints--how many of those do you have going--how about yet to come?


How much of your time is going to be wasted defending them?


To be honest I'm surprised you've gotten this far in the hiring process--could it be that they're talking to you out of curiosity and will then give you the news that there's nothing suitable after all?

Aug 23, 2006 7:54 am

You're surprised?  Why don't you tell us about your experiences at Human Resouces.


You know Put, you weren't a branch manager, nor human resources manager, so just WHAT are you qualified to discuss?  It seems like NOTHING to me.

Aug 23, 2006 9:56 am
Euroyen:

I never said I blew up the firm. I still have the firm and actually am selling it to my branch manager. I'm just burnt out on the volatility of the futures market. Clients blow up in high risk futures trades. Nothing I can do about that. Maybe you should get off your high horse and quit being a jerk. Being offered a job isn't a "second chance". Be happy with what you get? Obviously you are not a very big producer. Why should I ever settle? Are you recommending not getting the best pay possible?



If I may step aside from the food fight for a moment, there IS a relevant issue when it comes to the size of your initial pay package.  Common sense perhaps, but it is probably a bigger issue in our industry than others.

The bigger your initial pay package, the higher your BOM and perhaps even regional director's expectations.  The greater their level of scrutiny on a quarterly, monthly, and even weekly basis.  Now that's all well and good when you're knocking the cover off the ball.  But, when you have a slow stretch-and you will-with revenues or new assets, it could bring an entirely unwelcome level of interference in the form of "help" or "advice" from your BOM.  This at a time when all you may really need to do is buckle down and refocus yourself on the strategies that have been working.

If you really think you have what it takes, you might be better off planning on taking a middle of the road pay package and try to build up to the point that you can get off the tit and on full commish as quickly as possible.

For what it's worth!

Aug 23, 2006 10:01 am

The best way to let them know an 80K offer isn't going to cut it would be to turn it down if they offer that amount. One the other hand you're starting a new career. Like many other well established business people you are faced with supporting an existing high maintenance infrastructure while you make the transition. The only answer is; sometimes it takes two steps backwards to go one step forward. I realize that this is not happy news. However, it could take 3 to 5 years to replace a six figure income. That's a lot of net capital months, as I call them, and a lot of pressure that will more than likely work against your success.


Here's what I would do. Seriously tone down the lifestye to finance the new business. Think like a businessman. What would a smart businessman starting a new business do? Would they continue to live with negative cash flow or would they do something to get from red to black? We all know the answer. Buy a smaller non waterfront house. Get rid of the boat, there will be bigger, better boats in your future. Over the next five years you're not going to have time for it anyway, and paid for or not it's a money drain. Sell, the Bimmer and the Lexus LX470. Most jewelers will give you a fair price for the Rolex.


As you read this I know you're saying no way! Well, it's your future and I gotta tell you the buck 25 or so a year you were making is chump change compared to the future you can buy for yourself and your family. It would be a shame for you as well as them if you passed on an 80K offer because of a boat and a big house and all that go with them. Downsizing to move forward is a tough decision, business decisions often are. And you're taking a big risk. Well join the club. Many of us took big pay cuts to get here. And it may not pay off, you may fail, probably will fail, and getting back to where you are financially today could be a long way off if ever. Yep, all true. You need to make some hard chioces.

Aug 23, 2006 11:00 am
tjc45:

Here's what I would do. Seriously tone down the lifestye to finance the new business. Think like a businessman. What would a smart businessman starting a new business do? Would they continue to live with negative cash flow or would they do something to get from red to black? We all know the answer. Buy a smaller non waterfront house. Get rid of the boat, there will be bigger, better boats in your future. Over the next five years you're not going to have time for it anyway, and paid for or not it's a money drain. Sell, the Bimmer and the Lexus LX470. Most jewelers will give you a fair price for the Rolex.



Or you could be like Joeboy, leave UBS and move to a city where you know almost nobody to become an LPL guy.


On top of that you can take your "war chest" to tide you over in the rough times and spend it on a big house overlooking a country club golf course, join the club and take several hours off for golf lessons.

Aug 23, 2006 11:06 am

Or,


You can be like Newbie, spend all day on this forum telling tales of how much you don't know, never take a chance and go into business for yourself, and try and pass yourself off as an expert. 

Aug 23, 2006 11:08 am
csmelnix:

Or,


You can be like Newbie, spend all day on this forum telling tales of how much you don't know, never take a chance and go into business for yourself, and try and pass yourself off as an expert. 



What about your petulent outburst changes what I had to say?

Aug 23, 2006 11:12 am

Nice post, as usual, tjc45.

Aug 23, 2006 3:03 pm

Thanks for all of the feedback.  As for the layout of my house. Not that it matters but the backyard is on a shallow water lagoon. In front of the house is a deep water dock which is across the street. There is more value in me selling the business than bringing futures traders to UBS. In terms of compliance I have no customer complaints. I really wasn't asking for personal advice in terms of how I should arrange my lifestyle to subsidize a career change. Also If you read my post I said that my first year I made $125k. That was 8 years ago. My production is higher than that now. I have merely been asking for information on how to negotiate the best deal. For example is the split negotiable?

Aug 23, 2006 3:28 pm
Euroyen:

Thanks for all of the feedback.  As for the layout of my house. Not that it matters but the backyard is on a shallow water lagoon. In front of the house is a deep water dock which is across the street. There is more value in me selling the business than bringing futures traders to UBS. In terms of compliance I have no customer complaints. I really wasn't asking for personal advice in terms of how I should arrange my lifestyle to subsidize a career change. Also If you read my post I said that my first year I made $125k. That was 8 years ago. My production is higher than that now. I have merely been asking for information on how to negotiate the best deal. For example is the split negotiable?



No to my knowledge the split is not negotiable.  Alll advisors in the firm are on the same grid.

Aug 23, 2006 3:35 pm

It is possible to get off the grid, but I doubt that they'd offer you six figures plus an off the grid payout that was better than the standard deal.


Accelerated payouts have proven problematic too.  Incoming producer brings accounts, churns them all to death for as long as the accelerated payout lasts--clients get pissed, hire attorneys, "I promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" stories for several years.  No smile face.


What you're saying is you have no traditional business and a book full of clients that were blown up.


Depending on how recently they blew up you may still have significant compliance issues arise that will demand a lot of time.


It sounds like a nightmare to me, but then I just don't get it.

Aug 23, 2006 3:42 pm
NASD Newbie:
tjc45:

Here's what I would do. Seriously tone down the lifestye to finance the new business. Think like a businessman. What would a smart businessman starting a new business do? Would they continue to live with negative cash flow or would they do something to get from red to black? We all know the answer. Buy a smaller non waterfront house. Get rid of the boat, there will be bigger, better boats in your future. Over the next five years you're not going to have time for it anyway, and paid for or not it's a money drain. Sell, the Bimmer and the Lexus LX470. Most jewelers will give you a fair price for the Rolex.


Or you could be like Joeboy, leave UBS and move to a city where you know almost nobody to become an LPL guy.


On top of that you can take your "war chest" to tide you over in the rough times and spend it on a big house overlooking a country club golf course, join the club and take several hours off for golf lessons.



I continue to be flattered by how important I've become to you, Newbie!

The facts you describe-absent the nasty implications-are essentially correct, but the conclusions you draw from them couldn't be farther from reality.   You're like a blind man trying to describe an elephant but the only part you have your hands around so far is the trunk, so you think it's a snake.

I'm not inclined to break my anonymity, but suffice it to say the following:

1.)  The club has not only been a personal delight but a useful business tool as well.  Of course, you'd hardly know that because as a middle-management technocrat you didn't have any clients to entertain.  Too, all your 'networking' opportunities were fed to you by Daddy, the NASD, and the brokers at your firm who did the real work.

2.)  The war chest is hardly depleted.  In reality, my 'net capital' has grown every month for about 8-9 months in a row so far.

3.)  I grew up here, so I know plenty of folks.  Too, the club has been pretty helpful in meeting plenty of others who are nice potential clients.


Aug 23, 2006 3:45 pm
NASD Newbie:

It is possible to get off the grid, but I doubt that they'd offer you six figures plus an off the grid payout that was better than the standard deal.


Accelerated payouts have proven problematic too.  Incoming producer brings accounts, churns them all to death for as long as the accelerated payout lasts--clients get pissed, hire attorneys, "I promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" stories for several years.  No smile face.


What you're saying is you have no traditional business and a book full of clients that were blown up.


Depending on how recently they blew up you may still have significant compliance issues arise that will demand a lot of time.


It sounds like a nightmare to me, but then I just don't get it.



Euro-pay little heed to NASD Newbie....his limited expertise is overshadowed by his venemous jealousy of those who actually do the work(and make the money) in this industry.

Aug 23, 2006 3:52 pm
joedabrkr:
NASD Newbie:

It is possible to get off the grid, but I doubt that they'd offer you six figures plus an off the grid payout that was better than the standard deal.


Accelerated payouts have proven problematic too.  Incoming producer brings accounts, churns them all to death for as long as the accelerated payout lasts--clients get pissed, hire attorneys, "I promise to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth" stories for several years.  No smile face.


What you're saying is you have no traditional business and a book full of clients that were blown up.


Depending on how recently they blew up you may still have significant compliance issues arise that will demand a lot of time.


It sounds like a nightmare to me, but then I just don't get it.




Euro-pay little heed to NASD Newbie....his limited expertise is overshadowed by his venemous jealousy of those who actually do the work(and make the money) in this industry.


Tell us Joeboy, what do you see as the positive.  If you were a UBS manager what about this guy's story makes you think he's worth a guarantee in excess of $125,000 per year?


Come on, tell us how you'd do it.