The 500 day war (for rookies)
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I know at least one or two guys from each of the wires in my area (they are all small offices, less than 10-15 FA's in each one). What I gather from them (and observation) is that nearly all of the FA's are experienced (10+ years). They all have pretty large books, and many of them built them through inheritance (of departing FA's). Very few are doing ANYTHING to grow their books other than traditional referrals and some client marketing (cleint events, dinners, etc.).
I had a guy from MSSB come to my office recently that was interested in leaving MSSB. He had like $130mm, and in his words, he only cared about maybe $65mm of it. He said the rest was just "picked up" over the years through failed FA's, FA's leaving for other firms, etc. He also said he's seen at LEAST 15 new FA's come and go in the past 3 years that have simply failed out. And this is in a legacy MS office with 6 advisors.
[quote=BondGuy]
I'm at what might be called a super regional, but it's wire-like enough to qualify as one. I can speak only for my office, referrals and cold calling.
[/quote]
Super Regional?? I kept thinking you were Martin Shafiroff...
So are the new guys who are calling... getting anywhere?
One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.
I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.
I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused.
I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.
The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first.
They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling. Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.
Are they different than the places you guys work? once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling? Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.
Thanks
MSSB, Merrill, and the rest of the clueless brigade don't have to put themselves in their own program. Family money and etc., may give you a pass on the 1st year - that is if your family is worth like 3 million bucks and willing to give the whole enchilada to you.
Ever since the terminology changed from broker to "wealth advisor" these firms now have professional screen watchers - "Advisors" who look busy, but do squat.
You are better off at a smaller shop where they have to call to survive. You will learn the skills there to prosper IMHO.
Although a smaller shop is preferable, i dont see many of them taking on advisors with absolutely no experience, let alone giving them the first year or two financial support that the bigger firms give. so the advice i've been given is to start big (take advantage of the support, training, etc) and then go small or on your own after you have a decent book.
however if i'm making a strong living at the bigger firm, i dont see the motivation to move on? stuff i'll probably learn along the way, but any thoughts? Is it possible to join the bigger firm and rely on cold calling as your primary method and then tapping into family later when you're more established. I mean obviously its possible but is that something that is discouraged or looked down on?
[quote=BondGuy]
One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.
I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.
[/quote]
As a new guy who is not doing really well.. Can you give an example of his day and/or what he is doing? What is the difference between the guy that is making it and the 2 that aren't?
[quote=smokey]
I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused.
I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.
The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first.
They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling. Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.
Are they different than the places you guys work? once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling? Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.
Thanks
[/quote]
SMokey, I think we are looking at "family and friends" through two different lenses. What YOU are thinking of (and how we are responding to you) is like the insurance guy that opens term policies for all his family, then starts working on his neighbors and former co-workers (or IRA rollovers, etc.). Low-hanging fruit type of stuff.
What MSSB is talking about is the fact that they want a guy that is "connected" - not friends and neighbors, but former clients from his life in law or taxes, or folks at the marina or country club. Do you see the difference? They want folks that have a natural (read: wealthy) market.
[quote=B24]
[quote=smokey]
I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused.
I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.
The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first.
They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling. Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.
Are they different than the places you guys work? once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling? Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.
Thanks
[/quote]
SMokey, I think we are looking at "family and friends" through two different lenses. What YOU are thinking of (and how we are responding to you) is like the insurance guy that opens term policies for all his family, then starts working on his neighbors and former co-workers (or IRA rollovers, etc.). Low-hanging fruit type of stuff.
What MSSB is talking about is the fact that they want a guy that is "connected" - not friends and neighbors, but former clients from his life in law or taxes, or folks at the marina or country club. Do you see the difference? They want folks that have a natural (read: wealthy) market.
[/quote]
Exactly right. Add to that, the mgrs really are clueless on how to build a book. Years ago Wall Street settled on the fee model. Why? because it's a scalable business. Just keep adding assets and the business grows. No messy investments to worry about. How those assets are attained is the problem. Again, why? Because most of the managers at the wires have never had to produce. Their job is to mind the flock, that's it. Because they are clueless the recco relying on networks and affinity groups. Honestly, they don't know how to uncover assets, so what else are they going to say?
The fee biz is also plug and play. That is, if you fail they just plug in another advisor to take over your accounts and mind the assets. They can do this because every advisor is doing exactly the same thing. There is nothing unique about your business to drive assets to the door or out the door. Plug and play. In fact your failure is part of the wire's business plan. Hire 500 rookies, 400 fail. However those 400 rookies raised between 7 and 15 million dollars each before washing out. All that money stays with the firm without any revenue interuption. Again because it's plug and play. Pretty cool huh? And you thought they were hiring you because they were impressed by the wonder of you? Only if you've got a rich network to fork over.
[quote=horton]
[quote=BondGuy]
One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.
I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.
[/quote]
As a new guy who is not doing really well.. Can you give an example of his day and/or what he is doing? What is the difference between the guy that is making it and the 2 that aren't?
[/quote]
Horton, the answer is very simple: The successful guy makes more calls that the other two put together.
This is a contact business. There is no magic formula. Pick up the phone and call someone and keep doing it until the sun goes down. And then do it some more. Ask people to do something. Buy something, look at something, consider something, talk to you in person or over the phone. Every call is a prospecting call or a call to move the prospect closer to a decision. Once you have clients, client calls get thrown into the mix. That's it! That's all this is,talking to people and asking them to take action, nothing more. The more people you talk to the more money you are going to make and the faster you will make it.
BondGuy,
Give us a number in terms of the calls the successful rookie makes. I generally make more calls than anyone in my office (rookies or experiened FAs). I am a rookie so what else am I going to do all day other than call, mail, go on the resulting appointments and try to close 'em?! A bad day for me is 200 dials. A good day is 300 dials. However, some days, my contact ratio absolutely sucks (at least I think it does). For example, today it was 1 contact for every 10 dials...and those were for business owners. In your experience, what have you seen in terms of the appropriate amount of dials, dials per contact, daily contacts, etc. Thanks in advance.
[quote=BondGuy]
[quote=horton]
[quote=BondGuy]
One of the new guys, LOS 1 year, is doing really well. Very consistant, in early, always on the phone etc. He's doing very well. Two others, not as well, but enough not to get the boot.
I work in a unique office where vets actually cold call. We all open accounts from cold calling. Though, because we all have large books to run we can't dedicate time to the effort that a rookie can. It's a very transactional office with a lot of fixed income types. One of the reasons I chose to work there. Lot's of idea flow between reps.
[/quote]
As a new guy who is not doing really well.. Can you give an example of his day and/or what he is doing? What is the difference between the guy that is making it and the 2 that aren't?
[/quote]
Horton, the answer is very simple: The successful guy makes more calls that the other two put together.
This is a contact business. There is no magic formula. Pick up the phone and call someone and keep doing it until the sun goes down. And then do it some more. Ask people to do something. Buy something, look at something, consider something, talk to you in person or over the phone. Every call is a prospecting call or a call to move the prospect closer to a decision. Once you have clients, client calls get thrown into the mix. That's it! That's all this is,talking to people and asking them to take action, nothing more. The more people you talk to the more money you are going to make and the faster you will make it.
[/quote] The answer seems simple and so does the objective "make as many contacts as possible"....Sometimes the "fear" just multiplies itself and making those contacts seem impossible(as does picking up the phone)
[quote=BondGuy]
[quote=B24]
[quote=smokey]
I hear everything you guys are saying about the need for cold calling and working outside of your family/friends and you have convinced me to agree, but here is where I am confused.
I recently went on the first interview at MSSB. I have no experience doing this.After submitting my business plan, they want me back for the second interview.
The "500 day war" and all the comments in this discussion are pushing cold calling and avoiding doing business with family and friends at first.
They on the other hand are pushing contacting family/friends and working only within your network and avoiding cold calling. Seems the biggest qualification for being hired is having a network of high net worth family/friends.
Are they different than the places you guys work? once/if I join, will I be spending the majority of my time cold calling? Not that I mind it, If I'm able to, I'd like to follow the "500 day war" philosophy, or if they prefer, I can reach out to friends and family, regardless of what it is, i want to do the work, but I just want to be able to go in with my eyes open and know what to expect and don't feel that this would be an appropriate question to ask on the interview.
Thanks
[/quote]
SMokey, I think we are looking at "family and friends" through two different lenses. What YOU are thinking of (and how we are responding to you) is like the insurance guy that opens term policies for all his family, then starts working on his neighbors and former co-workers (or IRA rollovers, etc.). Low-hanging fruit type of stuff.
What MSSB is talking about is the fact that they want a guy that is "connected" - not friends and neighbors, but former clients from his life in law or taxes, or folks at the marina or country club. Do you see the difference? They want folks that have a natural (read: wealthy) market.
[/quote]
Exactly right. Add to that, the mgrs really are clueless on how to build a book. Years ago Wall Street settled on the fee model. Why? because it's a scalable business. Just keep adding assets and the business grows. No messy investments to worry about. How those assets are attained is the problem. Again, why? Because most of the managers at the wires have never had to produce. Their job is to mind the flock, that's it. Because they are clueless the recco relying on networks and affinity groups. Honestly, they don't know how to uncover assets, so what else are they going to say?
The fee biz is also plug and play. That is, if you fail they just plug in another advisor to take over your accounts and mind the assets. They can do this because every advisor is doing exactly the same thing. There is nothing unique about your business to drive assets to the door or out the door. Plug and play. In fact your failure is part of the wire's business plan. Hire 500 rookies, 400 fail. However those 400 rookies raised between 7 and 15 million dollars each before washing out. All that money stays with the firm without any revenue interuption. Again because it's plug and play. Pretty cool huh? And you thought they were hiring you because they were impressed by the wonder of you? Only if you've got a rich network to fork over.
[/quote]
Well like I said they are pretty blunt about what they are looking for, people with a rich network. which is why the "500 day plan" thing confused me where it said to not do business with people in your own network. I guess each place has its own best strategy to follow and the point is to use any resources you have.
I haven't ever come across a position, whether front or back office that wasn't "plug and play". Either you produce or you get out and get replaced with someone who will. I'm pretty sure this applies to almost any position in any company in any industry, I guess except for the government where you can not produce and live like a king.
Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me. In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people. You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well. You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training. So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB. The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone. My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week. Really, there isn't anywhere to hide. Activity is rewarded.
While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule. I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB. Just my two cents.
[quote=TenToesDown]
Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me. In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people. You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well. You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training. So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB. The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone. My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week. Really, there isn't anywhere to hide. Activity is rewarded.
While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule. I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB. Just my two cents.
[/quote]
I never said they are avoiding/denouncing cold calling. It was my original question, as in "do they avoid/denounce cold calling?" and I asked it because the recruiter really pushed the network more than anything and cold calling was never mentioned. I'm actually happy to hear its a big part of the process. Thank you.
[quote=smokey]
[quote=TenToesDown]
Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me. In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people. You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well. You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training. So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB. The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone. My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week. Really, there isn't anywhere to hide. Activity is rewarded.
While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule. I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB. Just my two cents.
[/quote]
I never said they are avoiding/denouncing cold calling. It was my original question, as in "do they avoid/denounce cold calling?" and I asked it because the recruiter really pushed the network more than anything and cold calling was never mentioned. I'm actually happy to hear its a big part of the process. Thank you.
[/quote]
Sorry Smokey. I reread my post to you and it sounded pretty rude. Didn't mean to sound so rude so please accept my apology. BTW, at the end of the day, they really don't care how you bring in the money, they just want to make sure you actually do bring in the money. Given the economy, MSSB and all other firms can be a bit more selective when making hiring decisions, so the thinking is to get a good mix of folks fresh out of school to pound the pavement, but to also get experienced individuals that already have an established network. It is always easier to work your network than it is to convince a stranger to be your client so that feeds into things a bit. So again, the choice remains with the individual based on what they bring to the table, but cold calling can still be a deadly weapon.
Again, sorry if I sounded like an "arse" in my original post. Cheers!
[quote=TenToesDown]
[quote=smokey]
[quote=TenToesDown]
Where you are getting the MSSB avoiding/denouncing the cold calling piece is a mystery to me. In fact, when you go to Warren, NJ (should you take the job) for training with MSSB, you will be cold calling on your first day at a table with 6 or 7 other people. You will witness one of the instructors perform a cold call as well. You will also do training on cold calling as well as how to conduct seminars, discovery meetings, etc. before you even get a chance to go to Warren and there will be an assessment on your cold calling ability before that you must pass before they invite you to go to Warren for that first week of training. So believe it, cold calling is very much a part of MSSB. The problem is that most people aren't going to do it consistently even though they do get training because they think they can rely on rich friends alone. My office tracks, connects, time per call, appts set, appts conducted, and so on and reports it to the entire branch every week. Really, there isn't anywhere to hide. Activity is rewarded.
While it is possible that networking alone will get you over the hurdle, it is probably more of an exception than the rule. I understand that each office is different, but prospecting on the phone definitely isn't frowned upon at MSSB. Just my two cents.
[/quote]
I never said they are avoiding/denouncing cold calling. It was my original question, as in "do they avoid/denounce cold calling?" and I asked it because the recruiter really pushed the network more than anything and cold calling was never mentioned. I'm actually happy to hear its a big part of the process. Thank you.
[/quote]
Sorry Smokey. I reread my post to you and it sounded pretty rude. Didn't mean to sound so rude so please accept my apology. BTW, at the end of the day, they really don't care how you bring in the money, they just want to make sure you actually do bring in the money. Given the economy, MSSB and all other firms can be a bit more selective when making hiring decisions, so the thinking is to get a good mix of folks fresh out of school to pound the pavement, but to also get experienced individuals that already have an established network. It is always easier to work your network than it is to convince a stranger to be your client so that feeds into things a bit. So again, the choice remains with the individual based on what they bring to the table, but cold calling can still be a deadly weapon.
Again, sorry if I sounded like an "arse" in my original post. Cheers!
[/quote]
no offense or rudeness taken. i never judge tone based on written words. your post was actually very helpful to me and answered my original question.
[/quote] The answer seems simple and so does the objective "make as many contacts as possible"....Sometimes the "fear" just multiplies itself and making those contacts seem impossible(as does picking up the phone)
[/quote]
Horton, fear will put you on the unemployment line. Pick up the phone and do it.
This is the way i figure it; if I don't make the call I won't make the sale. If i do make the call and get blown off the phone I won't make the sale. So, in making the call I have nothing to lose. OTOH, if in making the call i gain a prospect i have much to gain.
Same goes with investment reccos. Worst the client or prospect can do is say no. That's exactly the same result I would get for not making the call or not closing. So, what's my downside? There is no downside.
All gain with no downside?
With those odds why not make the calls?
[quote=TenToesDown]
BondGuy,
Give us a number in terms of the calls the successful rookie makes. I generally make more calls than anyone in my office (rookies or experiened FAs). I am a rookie so what else am I going to do all day other than call, mail, go on the resulting appointments and try to close 'em?! A bad day for me is 200 dials. A good day is 300 dials. However, some days, my contact ratio absolutely sucks (at least I think it does). For example, today it was 1 contact for every 10 dials...and those were for business owners. In your experience, what have you seen in terms of the appropriate amount of dials, dials per contact, daily contacts, etc. Thanks in advance.
[/quote]
The short answer is I don't know how many calls he is making. Your 200 to 300 dials sounds like a formula for success. If you are consistantly getting low anything, contacts, closes, appointments etc time to change something. What doesn't get changed is the number of dials. That's every day forever or, for at least the next five years.