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Sep 26, 2008 6:20 pm

what are you guys/gals doing to address this financial fiasco when it comes to life insurance.  i know they have reserves, re-insurance, blah blah blah, but at the end of the day if everyone comes calling with their hand out, what happens?

are you avoiding any specific companies?  i tend to use a mix of aig, ing, met, pru, hancock, transamerica, west coast, etc, so all "name brand companies," and for UL alot of sun and met.  heck, i still have over $3 million in underwriting with aig.

when do we need to start worrying about this?

Sep 26, 2008 6:31 pm

I only write with the strongest most stable companies.

Sep 27, 2008 6:03 pm

good one.  especially since we all know EXACTLY who those companies are nowadays.

Sep 27, 2008 6:12 pm

You should look at mutual companies like NYL, Mass, Guardian, and Ohio National among others.  By nature, they're a lot more conservative than a stock company.  Mutual = owned by policy holders.  IOW, the execs have to answer to the policy holders, not a stockholder.  So, they're not going to be swayed as much by earnings than a stock company. 

 
The primary carrier I use has around 1% exposure to the sub-prime market.  So, I've got that going for me.  Which is nice.
Sep 27, 2008 6:33 pm
deekay:

The primary carrier I use has around 1% exposure to the sub-prime market.  So, I've got that going for me.  Which is nice.


It's in the hole!  It's in the hole!!

   Thanks for the moment of Caddyshack levity, deekay.  I needed a good laugh! 

Sep 27, 2008 7:52 pm

I'm of two minds on this subject.


1) It doesn't matter too much because the industry as a whole can't let a death claim go unpaid.  If any company's death claims go unpaid, it hurts every company in the industry.   Therefore, all death claims will continue to get paid just as they always have.  Never in the history of life insurance in the U.S. has a death claim gone unpaid due to insurance company insolvency.


2) What if I'm wrong?  Therefore company strength matters.  I'd absolutely have a client pay more to stay away from a company that appears to be in financial difficulty.  (Speaking of which, why aren't you having other carriers look at your AIG policies that are in underwriting?)
 
 
Sep 27, 2008 8:00 pm
deekay:
 
The primary carrier I use has around 1% exposure to the sub-prime market. 


Didn't mean to come across as an ass Iron but this is what I was driving at.

Sep 28, 2008 6:34 pm

Because I submitted the AIG cases quite awhile ago and they have been hung up in underwriting waiting for initial APS plus some follow up stuff.  AIG is about 25-25% less on this substandard case.  I am using a general agency, and I made certain we can use the same meds and everything else if we decide to apply elsewhere. 

And every carrier I know of has told us their exposure is limited and their books are much cleaner then their neighbor with the foreclosure sign on the door.  Trouble is we have heard this all before.  Nobody knows exactly to what extent these companies are at risk. 

Sep 28, 2008 6:36 pm

sorry Ex.  I know what you meant.  I guess I am continually finding myself saying "Trust me." as it pertains to insurance and we really have no idea whether we are right or wrong.  I tend to agree with anon's point #1, but who freaking knows.  Maybe a month from now all life insurance will be backed by the government,

Sep 28, 2008 6:41 pm

I just got home from the NY Jets game at the Meadowlands.
AIG's name is all over the place, sponsoring a program called Kicks for Kids. And on the way home i heard marketing hype relative to AIG on the radio, (Jets post  - game)
I guess they have marketing money still in their till.

Sep 28, 2008 7:56 pm
Sportsfreakbob:

I just got home from the NY Jets game at the Meadowlands.
AIG's name is all over the place, sponsoring a program called Kicks for Kids. And on the way home i heard marketing hype relative to AIG on the radio, (Jets post  - game)
I guess they have marketing money still in their till.

 
Don't worry Bob, on Thursday morning I was driving to the office and the ad on the radio was about WAMU offering great savings and CD rates.  Later that evening, the Feds literally seized the building.
 
They sponsor just about everything here as I'm where their corporate HQ are...everything. 
Sep 28, 2008 8:31 pm

"Because I submitted the AIG cases quite awhile ago and they have been hung up in underwriting waiting for initial APS plus some follow up stuff.  AIG is about 25-25% less on this substandard case.  I am using a general agency, and I made certain we can use the same meds and everything else if we decide to apply elsewhere."

 
Why wait to apply elsewhere?  With their issures don't assume that they are still going to be less.  Do the delays with the APS and follow have to do with internal AIG problems?  If AIG truly does end up being 25% less, I'd use them, but I wouldn't use them without being pretty certain that this is the case. 
Sep 28, 2008 10:50 pm
iceco1d:
Sportsfreakbob:

I just got home from the NY Jets game at the Meadowlands.
AIG's name is all over the place, sponsoring a program called Kicks for Kids. And on the way home i heard marketing hype relative to AIG on the radio, (Jets post  - game)
I guess they have marketing money still in their till.

 
You saw that TD-Fest in person?  Must have been sweet!


Yeah Ice,
It was fun to watch. Although at one point, in the third quarter, i wanted to slit my wrists. But we got out of it, and avoided the "same ole Jets", for one week at least. Nice way for us to go into a bye week.

Sep 29, 2008 9:26 am

Iron....a suggestion , what I am doing and as members have stated have a " look see " to their exposure to the " Mess " as well as to other special situations ie. Wamu.

Oct 15, 2008 10:21 pm
theironhorse:

what are you guys/gals doing to address this financial fiasco when it comes to life insurance.  i know they have reserves, re-insurance, blah blah blah, but at the end of the day if everyone comes calling with their hand out, what happens?

are you avoiding any specific companies?  i tend to use a mix of aig, ing, met, pru, hancock, transamerica, west coast, etc, so all "name brand companies," and for UL alot of sun and met.  heck, i still have over $3 million in underwriting with aig.

when do we need to start worrying about this?

 
Prudential, Hartford, Met
Oct 16, 2008 12:45 pm
ChrisVarick:
theironhorse:

what are you guys/gals doing to address this financial fiasco when it comes to life insurance.  i know they have reserves, re-insurance, blah blah blah, but at the end of the day if everyone comes calling with their hand out, what happens?

are you avoiding any specific companies?  i tend to use a mix of aig, ing, met, pru, hancock, transamerica, west coast, etc, so all "name brand companies," and for UL alot of sun and met.  heck, i still have over $3 million in underwriting with aig.

when do we need to start worrying about this?

 
Prudential, Hartford, Met
 
Are you saying these companies are solid?  Or should we stay away from them?
Oct 16, 2008 4:22 pm
deekay:
ChrisVarick:
theironhorse:

what are you guys/gals doing to address this financial fiasco when it comes to life insurance.  i know they have reserves, re-insurance, blah blah blah, but at the end of the day if everyone comes calling with their hand out, what happens?

are you avoiding any specific companies?  i tend to use a mix of aig, ing, met, pru, hancock, transamerica, west coast, etc, so all "name brand companies," and for UL alot of sun and met.  heck, i still have over $3 million in underwriting with aig.

when do we need to start worrying about this?

 
Prudential, Hartford, Met
 
Are you saying these companies are solid?  Or should we stay away from them?
 
That they're solid.
Oct 16, 2008 5:03 pm
ChrisVarick:
deekay:
ChrisVarick:
theironhorse:

what are you guys/gals doing to address this financial fiasco when it comes to life insurance.  i know they have reserves, re-insurance, blah blah blah, but at the end of the day if everyone comes calling with their hand out, what happens?

are you avoiding any specific companies?  i tend to use a mix of aig, ing, met, pru, hancock, transamerica, west coast, etc, so all "name brand companies," and for UL alot of sun and met.  heck, i still have over $3 million in underwriting with aig.

when do we need to start worrying about this?

 
Prudential, Hartford, Met
 
Are you saying these companies are solid?  Or should we stay away from them?
 
That they're solid.
 
If you are referring to straight life insurance, it's hard to make the argument that any company is "unsafe".  The industry is built on a promise to pay.  So, even if these companies were to go away, another company would pick up the slack.  Simply put, it is in their best interest to pay a death claim.
 
If you're referring to other lines of business, I can make the case there are many other stronger companies than these.  Frankly, I do not trust stock insurance companies because their main interest is making a profit for their shareholders.  I would rather place my trust in a mutual company, who is owned by their policy holders.
Oct 16, 2008 8:19 pm

ChrisVarick, you are a little confused on which companies are solid.

Oct 21, 2008 12:15 pm

While it may be in a company's best interest to pay, in a bankruptcy the state's insurance pool would kick in and pick up the policies and pay the claims. That pool is made up of every insurer that does business in that state.


While it might make some sleep better at night beleiving management wants to protect the company's good will and not declare insolvency, yet if they run out of money management's intentions count for nothing.