Victory!

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Dec 13, 2006 3:18 pm

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,453769,00 .html


Operation "Iraqi Freedom," the former senators, chiefs of staff and ministers who make up the study group conclude, is on the verge of collapse on all fronts: militarily, politically and diplomatically. The word "chaos" turns up 15 times; Bush's favorite word, "victory," just three times.


The report itself is just as grim. "If the situation continues to deteriorate, the consequences could be severe," one section of the report reads in its unsparing appraisal of Washington's failed foreign policy. "A slide toward chaos could trigger the collapse of Iraq's government and a humanitarian catastrophe. Neighboring countries could intervene. Sunni-Shia clashes could spread. Al-Qaida could win a propaganda victory and expand its base of operations. The global standing of the United States could be diminished. Americans could become more polarized."


Time for Bush to wear the dunce cap and be put in time out like the child he is.  Go fight for your champion boys and girls...march off to your deaths in vain....all for FREEDOM right!!!  This is a conflict that could morph into a war of such verocity, breadth and intensity that I am starting to get seriously worried.


Don't even reply MikeButler....I don't care to hear it....you're a shill.

Dec 13, 2006 3:22 pm

More evidence of the 'great planning' of our administration in the report:


Yet even as the report focuses on the big picture in the region, its acerbity is to be found in the details. It points out that only six of the 1,000 US Embassy employees in Baghdad are fluent in Arabic. Moreover, whereas a US military report spoke of 93 violent incidences having taken place in a single July day, it was actually 1,100. Only 10 US military intelligence officers worked for more than two years on addressing the uprising in Iraq; the others were transferred before they could learn the ropes. One can hardly say, in other words, that the Iraq fiasco came out of nowhere.



You know it makes me really irate that this president has done so much damage during his tenure.  As much of a f*ck up as Clinton was this bafoon takes the cake.

Dec 13, 2006 4:27 pm

Dude - you must be embarrassed, I'm sure you meant to post this message to one of your numerous, liberal blog sites and not a Financial Services forum.  Anyway - we've all made mistakes.  However, if (and it's a big if) you have anything that's relevant to the industry - we'd be happy for the help.

Dec 13, 2006 4:31 pm

Damn Apprentice you are so smart....this has nothing to do with our business or lives for that matter, I mean it's only war right? 


You must be embarassed that your idol and chief executive has been so persistent in ruining this country.

Dec 13, 2006 4:33 pm

Ohh calm down and make-out with your Michael Moore poster again.

Dec 13, 2006 4:38 pm

Not very constructive dude. 


Most people have lost all perspective when it comes to this conflict.  It is a blip on the radar relative to other real wars.  Single battles have taken far greater casualties  It's a police action, nothing more.  


At this point, leaving would create far worse problems than staying.  This Iraq study group has provided a disservice.  No real workable solutions. 


I personally favor McCain's solution, more troops on the ground.  We can't walk away from this.  It has to be won.

Dec 13, 2006 8:15 pm

I don't advocate leaving.  I agree it has to be won.  McCain may have the solution, as may others.  I am interested in learning about solutions not just criticizing mistakes.  I don't claim to have the solution and am open to 'forward looking' ideas.


Never the less, responsibility for the misguided decision for Iraq must fall on the shoulders of our leader and it's my belief that there was major arrogance, ignorance and lack of substance in the decision to bring war to Iraq and in it's execution. 


It's my belief that the Bush administration failed at an opportunity to face and solve the problem of international terrorism by getting 'side tracked' in Iraq and thereby DECREASING the security of our nation and world...the report seems to support my view and not those of the Bush apologists who have vehemently defended their 'dunce' leader.


I would not take issue if people seemed more committed to solutions than their 'leader' or political paradigm.


By the way, I'm not a liberal nor a fan of Michael Moore (who I believe makes it more difficult to solve the problem).  I think those that automatically label others that disagree with them as 'liberals' or 'right wingers' are immature and not perceptive of the great variety of political perspectives available. 


The biggest issue I take with Bush is his immature, childish paradigm which splits everything into black and white.  Very nieve and unflattering for a man of his position. 

Dec 13, 2006 8:21 pm
Pandale:

Not very constructive dude. 


Most people have lost all perspective when it comes to this conflict.  It is a blip on the radar relative to other real wars.  Single battles have taken far greater casualties  It's a police action, nothing more.  


At this point, leaving would create far worse problems than staying.  This Iraq study group has provided a disservice.  No real workable solutions. 


I personally favor McCain's solution, more troops on the ground.  We can't walk away from this.  It has to be won.



I think that the nature and the deep seated issues this war raises to the surface has the potential to be of far greater consequence than a 'police action' like Vietnam.  We're talking about a clash of religion and culture that has over a thousand years of inertia behind it and a lot of pent-up unreleased energy. 


Again, I repeat, I do not advocate leaving.  I do advocate a multi leg approach like the report suggests though.  Isolation of the players that we don't agree with will only exacerbate issues.  Diplomacy is of utmost importance in engaging with a culture we obviously don't understand, as evidenced by our execution of this war (only having 6 Arabic speaking staff for example).


Dec 13, 2006 8:22 pm
dude:

 is his immature, childish paradigm which splits everything into black and white.  Very nieve and unflattering for a man of his position. 



pot, kettle.....

Dec 13, 2006 8:28 pm
dude:

  I do advocate a multi leg approach like the report suggests though.  Isolation of the players that we don't agree with will only exacerbate issues.  Diplomacy is of utmost importance ...



As McCain has said, the ISG's comments about working with Syria and Iran (nice Holocaust denier’s meeting there, btw...) are laughable. Asking those two to help with Iraq is like the fire department asking the town pyromaniacs to help with fire prevention…

Dec 13, 2006 8:54 pm

What you resist persists.  This is a wisdom you obviously have no understanding of; back to your mindless militarism George. 


You will never beat the muslim world into submission, they are exponentially poorer with much less to loose than you could even imagine.  They've got more fight in them than we ever will have because it is born out of a desperation that is not understood in this country.  This is a war which can't be 'won'

Dec 13, 2006 8:58 pm
mikebutler222:
dude:

 is his immature, childish paradigm which splits everything into black and white.  Very nieve and unflattering for a man of his position. 



pot, kettle.....



Each time you 'open your mouth' it becomes clearer and clearer your lack of reading comprehension and the subsequent fool you make of yourself when you try to articulate your position provides endless hours of entertainment for me.  Thank you.


My paradigm is most certainly not of a 'black and white' nature.  Thanks for playing but....

Dec 13, 2006 9:04 pm

I can only sit back in great satisfaction and watch the unraveling of events supporting the position I took long ago.  That this war is a joke being executed by the biggest clown of all.  I need no longer argue, I can let Baker and those in the 'inner circle' illuminate the truth. 


You could at least be a good looser instead of a bad looser Mike.  Grace and humility in the face of failure is a redeeming quality, take advantage of them Mike.

Dec 13, 2006 9:26 pm
dude:

What you resist persists.  This is a wisdom you obviously have no understanding of; back to your mindless militarism George. 


"Mindless militarism"? Who is it that thinks in simple black and white terms again?


dude:

You will never beat the muslim world into submission,....


So this is about that, eh? A war on the "muslim world"? Black and white, again?



dude:

  This is a war which can't be 'won'



Then why do you want us to stay in Iraq? Why not surrender now, convert to Islam or dig deep holes here to hide in and await the next 9/11?

Dec 13, 2006 9:28 pm
dude:

My paradigm is most certainly not of a 'black and white' nature. 



Of course it is. An example; in thread after thread after thread you spend time beating up on a cartoonish version of a real person..

Dec 13, 2006 9:30 pm
dude:

I can only sit back in great satisfaction and watch the unraveling of events supporting the position I took long ago. 



Who says there aren't people hoping for a US defeat so they can say "I told you so"?


Who says there aren't people cheered by every US setback in Iraq?

Dec 13, 2006 9:30 pm

"Asking those two to help with Iraq is like the fire department asking the

town pyromaniacs to help with fire prevention…"

Bad example in that many pyros ARE firemen in the first place! (before

you all start jumping up and down, I did NOT say many firemen are

pyros).

I was/am against this war and made many sour faces when I ridiculed

Colin Powell's idea of Mobile Germ Warfare factories, among other

falacies) BTW have you all seen this? It is hysti fricking terical



In Video, Hussein Uses Slingshots and Bows to Rally Iraqis for War

(nytimes.com)



And yet, at this point there is NOTHING we can do short of adding

200,000 pairs of boot to the effort. We need to institute a draft, we need

to turn major control of this face saving effort to the French (ok maybe

not the French, not the Italians either... The Russians? No, well maybe, at

least they've had recent experience, the Brits? They'll take a pass thank

you very much. Who's left? Mexico? Sweden? India?) We need to know that

we are now in a humanitarian struggle to save the lives of hundreds of

thousands(if not millions) of Iraqui's that we put in the path of danger.

This is a MAJOR disaster of OUR making. We made the mess, now we have

to clean it up. The only way to do that is to flood the country with

peacemakers carrying heavy arms.

I think Bush is being petulant so as to goad the Congress into impeaching

him. He'd rather go down in martyrdom than Dummiedom!

Mr.A

Dec 13, 2006 9:34 pm
mranonymous2u:

And yet, at this point there is NOTHING we can do short of adding 200,000 pairs of boot to the effort. We need to institute a draft, we need to turn major control of this face saving effort to the French (ok maybe not the French, not the Italians either... The Russians? No, well maybe, at least they've had recent experience, the Brits? They'll take a pass thank you very much. Who's left? Mexico? Sweden? India?)




mranonymous2u:

The only way to do that is to flood the country with peacemakers carrying heavy arms.


Is that your way of saying more troops?


mranonymous2u:

I think Bush is being petulant so as to goad the Congress into impeaching him. He'd rather go down in martyrdom than Dummiedom!


Mr.A




Yeah, that's it...

Dec 13, 2006 9:39 pm

No, I thought we'd just send the 200,000 pairs of boots.


Mr. A

Dec 13, 2006 10:12 pm

We went there to get the WMDs. There weren't any. Victory!!
We went there to depose Saddam. We did it. Victory!!
We went there to establish a democracy. We did it. Victory!!

Let's say the word again, all together: VICTORY!!!!
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Good.

Now, let's get the hell outta there!