Survivor

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Nov 24, 2008 8:19 pm

Who here expect to be in this business a year from now? and why?

Nov 24, 2008 10:29 pm

I'll be here. I've always been able to figure out what people want to buy then I sell it to them. 

Nov 24, 2008 10:35 pm

I'll be here.  Mostly because I am too stubborn to admit defeat.

Nov 24, 2008 10:36 pm

Hank,
 As someone so active in re-affirming what our legally-mandated responsibilities are as RR's, that answer seems to imply that you may not always practice that which you preach.

Nov 25, 2008 7:46 am

I'll be here because people need me and I also know how to sell.

Nov 25, 2008 8:11 am
YHWY:

Hank,
 As someone so active in re-affirming what our legally-mandated responsibilities are as RR's, that answer seems to imply that you may not always practice that which you preach.



What do I preach and how does my answer conflict with that?

Nov 25, 2008 11:59 am

Hank,
 You "preach" about all of our legal obligations to "know our clients" and only recommend investments that are suitable to their individual situation, needs, risk tolerance, etc.
 Then you wrote that, "I've always been able to figure out what people want to buy then I sell it to them." Perhaps I am inferring too much, but that sounds a lot like admitting that you sell products because they are easy to sell, which is in direct conflict with the former. The scenario I imagined as a question was, Have you ever had a client "tell you that they wanted to buy" an investment that would not risk loosing any of their principal and then "Sold" them a fixed, variable or equity indexed annuity?

Nov 25, 2008 12:02 pm

You'll see in a previous thread where he recommended the Allianz Master Dex 10. That is the biggest crap indexed annuity of all time.


He'll be on Dateline before it's all said and done with.
Nov 25, 2008 12:38 pm

I'll be here because I had the perspective of the last bear market to guide my overall philosophy.  Every bear market teaches powerful lessons and this one is no different.  Lessons learned from the last one caused me to use a fair number of equity-based mechanisms to protect people who could ill-afford to lose money in the market.  These folks have seen firsthand, the benefit of income and principal riders in VAs...of structured notes...of balanced portfolios...of keeping 2 years worth of cash on the sideline, etc.,etc.,etc.  While they haven't all been unscathed by this market, most have at least a portion of their portfolio that they feel good about.  My largest clients, with the exception of two, are mostly older, non-equity investors.

 
I won't tell you that I saw this coming because I didn't...not to the degree we've gotten it anyway.  Most of us didn't see the depth of the plunge.  A few crackpots forecasted it accurately, but if you look at their long-term records of calling the market, they don't know shit either.  I had a boss back in the 90's that called a crash in 1995.  He was five years early and it cost him his job and ultimately bankrupcy, so I've always taken a middle of the road approach to client money, regardless of how bullish or bearish I felt at the time.
 
Like Mike said...I'm a survivor because people need me.  I've promised clients and prospects that, short of my premature death or disability, I see myself sitting in this chair for a long time to come.  There is a part of me that is glad to see these kind of markets happen for a couple of reasons.  First, when you get a client through a market like this mostly intact and they get to share in the recovery, it forms a lasting bond.  The bank found out just how strong that bond was when I left some years ago.  Two, this kind of market weeds out the weak advisors who shouldn't be in the business to begin with.  I told someone not long ago...perhaps even on here...if stocks always went up, we'd have sixteen million advisors in this country by now.  Worse yet, we'd probably average about $40,000 gross a year and have twelve clients each.  This is in a perverse way, a healthy thing for our industry.  With some of the goofy shit I've read here, we were probably due for a purge anyway.  For those of you who survive, it only makes you stronger and a better advisor.  Be thankful for that.
Nov 25, 2008 12:53 pm
YHWY:

Hank,
 You "preach" about all of our legal obligations to "know our clients" and only recommend investments that are suitable to their individual situation, needs, risk tolerance, etc.
 Then you wrote that, "I've always been able to figure out what people want to buy then I sell it to them." Perhaps I am inferring too much, but that sounds a lot like admitting that you sell products because they are easy to sell, which is in direct conflict with the former. The scenario I imagined as a question was, Have you ever had a client "tell you that they wanted to buy" an investment that would not risk loosing any of their principal and then "Sold" them a fixed, variable or equity indexed annuity?



Point out ONE post where I preached what you say I've preached. Also, share with me why I should sell things that people don't want to buy.

Nov 25, 2008 1:02 pm

Examples of your citing legal obligations to our clients:

Hank Moody:

I hope that those who have responded to this this
person are registered in the state where he/she lives. Otherwise, they
are breaking the law. 

Hank Moody:

A good rule of thumb would be to ask yourself if you would be
comfortable telling your compliance director to review this
communication with the public that you didn't get prior approval to
make.

Hank Moody:
 Did your compliance department approve of this communication with the public? What other regulations do you like to violate?

Hank Moody:


It is illegal for us to discuss investments with you. Furthermore,
it is compounded when we give you advice on how to advise your aunt.
What part of that don't you understand? You might want to bring it up
in your next therapy session. We are not here to give free advice to
someone that is too cheap to pay for it.


 to name a few. As far as my inference that you may not always sell products based predominently on client benefit, I submit these:

Hank Moody:


I've learned a new trick. Index Annuities. I did a little over
$300,000 yesterday. I hate working weekends, but my office is only 5
minutes from home and I got paid 8%.


and:

Hank Moody:
YHWY:

Great job, "Hank". That's a good day's work. I trust that
the carrier you chose has the financial strength to honor its
guarantees and commitments going forward.



We'll find out.


Now, I re-submit my question. Have you ever had a client "tell you that they wanted to buy" an
investment that would not risk loosing any of their principal and then
"Sold" them a fixed, variable or equity indexed annuity?


Nov 25, 2008 1:11 pm

YHWY,


All your questoins about Hank will be answered if you read the "Worst case scenario thread".  He admits that he lies to sell product, regardless of the situation.

Nov 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Since I began re-visiting this site (for better or worse) I've tried to make a concerted effort to be polite and tactful, but I suspect your assertion may well be accurate.

Nov 25, 2008 1:31 pm
the word:

YHWY,


All your questoins about Hank will be answered if you read the "Worst case scenario thread".  He admits that he lies to sell product, regardless of the situation.



Point me to the post where I admit to lying.

Nov 25, 2008 1:36 pm
YHWY:

Examples of your citing legal obligations to our clients:

Hank Moody:

I hope that those who have responded to this this
person are registered in the state where he/she lives. Otherwise, they
are breaking the law. 


[quote=Hank Moody]
A good rule of thumb would be to ask yourself if you would be
comfortable telling your compliance director to review this
communication with the public that you didn't get prior approval to
make.
[/quote]
[quote=Hank Moody]

 Did your compliance department approve of this communication with the public? What other regulations do you like to violate?

[/quote]
[quote=Hank Moody]

It is illegal for us to discuss investments with you. Furthermore,
it is compounded when we give you advice on how to advise your aunt.
What part of that don't you understand? You might want to bring it up
in your next therapy session. We are not here to give free advice to
someone that is too cheap to pay for it.
[/quote]
 to name a few. As far as my inference that you may not always sell products based predominently on client benefit, I submit these:
[quote=Hank Moody]

I've learned a new trick. Index Annuities. I did a little over
$300,000 yesterday. I hate working weekends, but my office is only 5
minutes from home and I got paid 8%.
[/quote]
and:
[quote=Hank Moody]
[quote=YHWY]Great job, "Hank". That's a good day's work. I trust that
the carrier you chose has the financial strength to honor its
guarantees and commitments going forward.
[/quote]

We'll find out.
[/quote]
Now, I re-submit my question. Have you ever had a client "tell you that they wanted to buy" an
investment that would not risk loosing any of their principal and then
"Sold" them a fixed, variable or equity indexed annuity?




There is NO such thing as an investment that can't "loose" principal, given the perfect storm. As an alternative to nothing, I've sold those products.

Nov 25, 2008 1:41 pm

Treasure Bonds (especially short-term) and FDIC insured CD's are widely considered by  the industry to be "riskless" as to loss of principal. I believe your position is very close to the line of misrepresentation.

Nov 25, 2008 1:44 pm
YHWY:

Treasure Bonds (especially short-term) and FDIC insured CD's are widely considered by  the industry to be "riskless" as to loss of principal. I believe your position is very close to the line of misrepresentation.

 
What if the US loses its AAA status?  What if so many banks fail, there isn't enough FDIC insurance without printing so much money that dollar is worth less than the ink that's printed on it?
 
In a perfect storm, it could happen.
Nov 25, 2008 1:48 pm

Let's not delude ourselves here. Yes, If the hand of God itself swooped from heaven and decimated the USA, then nothing is "riskless". But, let's be realistic, the chances of the US Treasury defaulting on Treasury Bonds or on FDIC Insured accounts is not even the same sport as, say, Allianz being unable to pay promised benefits to their EIA holders.

Nov 25, 2008 1:49 pm
YHWY:

Treasure Bonds (especially short-term) and FDIC insured CD's are widely considered by  the industry to be "riskless" as to loss of principal. I believe your position is very close to the line of misrepresentation.




Can you point me to the industry list of riskless instruments? I appreciate all of your concern, but I'm going to stick to what I'm doing. It's working.

Nov 25, 2008 1:53 pm
YHWY:

Let's not delude ourselves here. Yes, If the hand of God itself swooped from heaven and decimated the USA, then nothing is "riskless". But, let's be realistic, the chances of the US Treasury defaulting on Treasury Bonds or on FDIC Insured accounts is not even the same sport as, say, Allianz being unable to pay promised benefits to their EIA holders.



Return of principal is NOT a benefit. Have you seen the recent S&P affirmation of Allianz's AA rating?