Partnership deal structure

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Sep 24, 2005 9:16 am

Folks,


How is a typical partnership structured between a Sr. broker with a very substantial book and a jr. broker with almost nothing?


Sep 24, 2005 11:10 am

Oh simple, Senior uses "good story" of how bright your future looks, throws junior some dead assetts to keep him interested. Junior works himself to the edge of parishing, when one of two things happens. Junior can't take the pain anymore, and quits to become a bartender or pharma rep, and senior swallows up book. Or, Junior survives and looks like he might make it ok, and senior decides, "it's time for me to go in a new direction,.....good luck son". I'm half kidding.......that does happen often though.


If you are pulling your own weight as a new guy, and developing the lower end of Seniors book (setting appointment with the clients that have not been serviced, and developing business, as well as bringing in some clients of your own, you will find that you become marketable within the firm, even if you don't click with the original arrangemnt. There can be some tremendous opportunity from partnering with a senior advisor, and you could reach a level, that might not be attainable otherwise. Just be careful!

Sep 24, 2005 11:30 am

Nothing is free.  Everything needs to be mutually beneficial and
there must be leverage of time and talent with the partnership. 
If you think this will get you out of prospecting you are wrong, and if
the Sr. thinks he will stop working so hard and deliver all of the crap
to you, he is wrong.

Sep 24, 2005 10:55 pm

Wow, you guys are right on for this one.


It seems it can be a win-win if both parties are genuine.

Sep 25, 2005 8:29 am

wow, excellent feedback.


So if the right ingredients are there, what next?  New guy gets to work some amount of assets and get a percentage of the Sr's net on those assets?


Is that the model?  And what about assets the new guy brings in....does he get all the net on that or the same % he gets on the Sr's piece?

Sep 25, 2005 8:44 am
NOVA:

wow, excellent feedback.


So if the right ingredients are there, what next?  New guy gets
to work some amount of assets and get a percentage of the Sr's net on
those assets?


Is that the model?  And what about assets the new guy brings
in....does he get all the net on that or the same % he gets on the Sr's
piece?





If you cannot bring in AT LEAST as much busienss, commissions, etc...as
you take, it simply will not work. Setting up partnerships is common,
but a Sr. rep will not likely give you a pass on the hard work her or
she had to go through. 



I would say you work a batch of acounts and get next to nothing in
terms of pay-out from it, other than NEW business you are able to
generate (from whcih you split with the Sr.).  You continue to go
out and bird dog new business and bring in the Sr. to help you close
it, the larger percentage of which YOU get.  This sort of thing
until you both feel you can work together.

Sep 25, 2005 9:24 am

rightway....what's next to nothing?  1%?       10%       20%?

Sep 26, 2005 11:21 am

I have seen where the split, right or wrong, as a percentage of assets.  Let's say the senior has 100mm and you 10mm, the split is 90/10.  I almost went into something like that early on, but when I did the math and saw how difficult it would be for me to double my gross in this tilted arrangement, I thought I could do it faster on my own.

Sep 26, 2005 12:21 pm

I passed on a junior partnership once, and I am still not sure if it was a good idea or not.


The way mine was going to be set up, I was to be tied to a senior team (the #3 and #4 guys in the office) I was to be paid $25,000 base salary (plus all the benefits, etc like every other full time employee) plus 25 bps on all NEW assets I brought in regardless of the revenue generated by those assets. 


Example:  Cash generates nothing, but I'd get 25 bps, annuities generate much more, but I'd still get 25 bps.


My deal was bring in 10 million in one year, and then I'd get a chair of my own.  Really little risk on my part if you think about it.


The real "payout" to me was to get to learn from two of the most successful guys in the office, both of whom had built their practices up from scratch.  But there was no agreement on sharing any of their existing revenue, etc.  It was all on me to bring it in and participate in closing it with them. 


Was that a good deal??  Well, if they ended up liking me and wanting to partner with me, then yes it would have been.  Could I bring in 10 million cold calling last year...maybe.  It would have been hell, that's for sure.  The bottom line is weigh out your options...if you are starting from scratch I say either partner up or go to a bank unless you are a glutton for punishment.


The partnership should be equitable, and the fact is you have little to offer, so it is going to be heavily tilted toward the senior guy, as it should be.  Thing is, it might seem like it sucks, but if it keeps you in the business, 10 years from now, you will be glad you did it.


Sep 26, 2005 12:43 pm

Yeah..... you don't want to pin your future to whether, some senior group "likes you" after you have killed yourself to bring in accounts, which they are sharing in. There are too many greedy SR's, who have hidden agendas. You will also find, bringing senior guys to client meetings........kind of a let down. They really don't say or do anything that phenomenal.....they just do more of it..with more confidence. Some are better than others, It's worth bringing a senior in to see there approach, but when Sr. is presenting to your prospects,.....you look like a piker, there is almost no way around it.

Sep 26, 2005 1:19 pm

There are many different arrangements for partnerships:


1) if Sr & Jr are to share all accts; some people will take the gross of each broker to dertermine a percentage split of commissions


2) if Jr is to work only bottom 10-20% of book; they can figure rev generated by these accts, compare it to Jrs revenue, & determine a % split on revenues generated


3)May be a 50/50 split on new assets + #2 above


4) split comm at predetermined % (i.e. 20/80) on assets worked by Jr until preset level has been hit, then split 50/50 on revenue over that amount   {20/80 split until $100k generated on accts that Jr is working, once the $100k is attained the comm are then split 50/50}


As you can see, you can get very creative with commission splits, but what it boils down to is what will you both be happy with, and what does your B/D allow.

Sep 26, 2005 2:28 pm

By the way, Most senior FA's will want to date before they get married. From my experience, you could be positioned with a group for 1 - 2 years before you contractually, and formally become part of the group. My deal is pretty good. Senior gives me some accounts of his (low end of book, untapped for years) Any business, new money + PC's we split 60% to me, 40% too senior. Any business I bring in on my own, is 100%mine. When we work on things together it usually is 50-50. There is little downside for me.


Yes, it should be mutually benefical. The way I've seen it, any tie goes to Junior. You can't have SR guys making $500,000 ayear screwing newbies, it's just not right. With all the other crap to deal with, you don't need the big brokers in your office trying to derail small guys, so they can grab their books. But unfortunately, it happens alot. If you have a good Director, or Manager, they should look out for you. In fact before you enter a relationship, not a bad idea to get management's blessing.


Kinda like working for the mob huh??????

Sep 26, 2005 3:20 pm

Only difference is we don't wear red dress shirts under our suits...Italians have god awful gawdy taste. 

Sep 26, 2005 5:51 pm

Above all else, make sure you go into a partnering arrangement from a position of power. When I first joined ML, I was "encouraged" to join several teams of established producers. I was offered the opportunity to become a Junior FA, but decided against it. I wanted to go into production for a few months ( year) and prove to management and these teams that I was capable of bringing in assets and putting numbers on the board. I have since formed an informal team with my sales manager, and bring him on appts when necessary. Thus far, it has worked out nicely. In just over 3 months, in our split number alone we have brought in about 2MM in assets. We split everything in our pool 50-50. I win because business is more easily closed, he wins because I do the active prospecting ( cold calls, referrals, etc) and he only has to sit for the 2nd ( sometimes 3rd) meeting. 

Sep 26, 2005 9:11 pm

maybe I should talk to the Branch manager...ask him what others in my poisition have done.

Sep 26, 2005 9:49 pm

The branch manager, depending on the firm, will want you to join a team. Better yet, ask other sin the branch what their experience has been. You will get a much better understanding of what is ideal for you by spekaing with others who have had to make the same sort of decision as you have. I just think it holds more worth if it comes from someone who doesnt have a real vested interest in your business ( from a production, revenue, etc standpoint).

Sep 26, 2005 11:26 pm

With teams, I think either you're in or your out.  I don't like the concept of "Mine, His, & Ours".  I think you should both work together for the common goals.  Here's some tips...


1.)  Work at least the first 6 months alone.  This way you have a little bit to bring to the table and the other FAs can see that you know how to do this job.


2.)  Come up with a plan with a senior broker and split everything...1 book of business.  It's probably going to start out 90/10 and will get better each year.


3,)  Get everything down in writing.... compensation, goals, your process, your roles and responsibilities, exit plan.  Leverage each others strenths.  The Senior FA should be "staffing his weakness"


4.)  Get the manager's blessing.


Above all, the numbers have to work for both you.  You can't partner with a 300k producer and get 10% of the book.  It won't work.  Also, if your personalities don't mesh, you're headed for disaster.


Sep 27, 2005 9:35 pm
iconsult100:

With teams, I think either you're in or your
out.  I don't like the concept of "Mine, His, & Ours".  I
think you should both work together for the common goals.  Here's
some tips...


1.)  Work at least the first 6 months alone.  This way you
have a little bit to bring to the table and the other FAs can see that
you know how to do this job.


2.)  Come up with a plan with a senior broker and split
everything...1 book of business.  It's probably going to start out
90/10 and will get better each year.


3,)  Get everything down in writing.... compensation, goals,
your process, your roles and responsibilities, exit plan. 
Leverage each others strenths.  The Senior FA should be "staffing
his weakness"


4.)  Get the manager's blessing.


Above all, the numbers have to work for both you.  You can't
partner with a 300k producer and get 10% of the book.  It won't
work.  Also, if your personalities don't mesh, you're headed for
disaster.






Good post.  There is more inside of this than most may think.

Sep 27, 2005 9:42 pm
rightway:

Good post.  There is more inside of this than most may think.


Thanks.  I saw a guy come into this business and make 100 dials before 10am and never get discouraged.  He impressed a senior guy (300k) and they partnered up 95/5.  He then spent most of his time working with the senior guy, never had time to build his own book and we gone when his salary disappeared because he didn't have his own book to stand on and the senior guy didn't want to give him a bigger cut.

Sep 28, 2005 10:40 pm

blarmston nice job getting to 2mil in 3 months.


This has been the best post for me yet. Thank you!


I am about to sign my contract as a junior partner. As I understand my partner wants me to kick some butt. We have built a strong relationship out side the business for a couple of years. The contract is more then fair. 


Up to now I was debating how much of a percentage should I get. You gents and ladies opened my eyes to the fact that 50/50 is fair. It gives the senior partner more incentive to work with the junior.  


As he has presented our contract to me its focused around win- win. From what I understand he selected me since I am a bull who has integrity, solid communication skills, network of associates and diverse sales background.


I get the impression he would like me to develop around his parimeters (with quite a bit of flexability). Also in his eyes integrity is critical. The bottom line is anything I do directly reflects his business. So if I lacked integrity it could result in a disaster.


Like another speaker stated the senior partner is trying to fill areas that he needs help. Success will happen and I am extremly excited about this opportunity.


Hey topgunproducer.com here I come!!