You're a whore, right now you're doing the equivalent of standing on a street corner shouting "Wanna date" at every guy who drives by.

Does your mother know what you do?

Tell, Shyster, how does somebody who is paid straight commissions value their time?  It is not uncommon for a guy to go weeks without earning anything, only to land a big deal he was working on.

How many hours was he supposed to work on it?  What is fair?

Come on lawyer, strut your stuff.  You don't have a moron on your hands here--I've been an expert witness dozens of times, I know you and your ilk.

You're a guy who couldn't catch on with a regular firm so  you started your own--big deal.  The movies are filled with your type.

What you have in brokers are honest people who are ambitiious--I am truly surprised that somebody hasn't set you on fire.

Somewhere I read "I got a check for $10,000."

I remind the brokers who are reading this, and the potential brokers too--if you're doing this right you'll make that much in a month after a year or two--maybe even that much a week.

Is it really worth running the risk that you'll ruin your own career for a month's pay?  How about for a week's pay?

If you were the senior managers of your firm would you look kindly on a guy who joined a lawsuit against his employer--classic biting the hand that feeds you stuff?

Suppose you joined this shyster's case and further suppose you won and your firm give you a check for a few thousand dollars.  Five years later a client files an arbitration claim--you are in bad need of an attorney.  Do you suppose your firm is going to support you in your time of need?

There are absolutely no reasons to pay attention to this guy.  Even if you hear he sued your firm--do NOT join the class, you have far more to lose than you have to gain.

[quote=ClassCounsel]

I should mention as well, that the scenario about being "locked out" of your office is quite unrealistic.

[/quote]

No it's actually very realistic.  If what you're doing results in being mandated to pay a rookie "overtime" this former branch manager would simply close the office and make the rookie go home.

If he wants to make a living he can work there, but he'll play hell proving it.

[quote= ]

The goal of these cases is to alow you to keep your commissions, but ALSO get you overtime pay.  Why would naturally assume the company is being completely open with you and that anyone challanging them is "dirty?"  These are seasoned brokers filing these cases who are standing up for what's right, not gold-diggers looking for "get-rich-quick" schemes.

[/quote]

Only a class action whore would think that what any given member of the class is a way to get rich.  What are you going to make counsellor?  A third plus a everything you can charge on your American Express card?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[quote=ClassCounsel]

I just read, with great interest, the posts by NASD Newbie.

Newbie:  Why the aggression toward us or what we're trying to do for you and why such distrust?  Are you actually a broker or part of some firm's management just watching this board?  What possible reason would you have to be offended by the fact that people are out here actually trying to change a corrupt system, particularly when it benefits you and your co-workers?

You can be as personally offensive as you wish and call us "whores" (although you don't even know us) but don't dissuade others who actually want legal help from seeking it; employers have done that for years and some of us are getting really tired of it.

[/quote]

Why the hostility?

You don't get it, do you?  Successful people in this industry are entrepreneurial and hard working, whether they own their own shop or work as an employee at a major firm.  Starting out, that means you need to work your arse off, and freqently put in long hours.

Not wanting to punch a time clock has little to do with the inconvenience.  It has EVERYTHING to do with freedom and flexibility to structure one's own time as long as the necessary results are acheived.  Hell even a rookie should get to sneak out and play a round of golf or take a long liquid lunch a couple Fridays a year.  Put a time clock on us and that all comes to an end.

Too, it will play havoc on productivity and creativity in this business.  Some of the best work I've done was over dinner, or even after dinner, or on the golf course.

It's only the slackers and the losers in our industry, the washouts and near-washouts who care about collecting a k-buck or so for 'overtime pay' in a lawsuit.

But then again you leeches don't care as long as you get your fees, do you?

***the following with apologies to Bill Singer***

Q.  What do you call a busload of (class action) lawyers falling off a very high cliff?


A.  A good start.


Q.  And what would you call an empty seat on that very same bus?

A.  A missed opportunity!!

[quote=ClassCounsel]

I just read, with great interest, the posts by NASD Newbie.

Newbie:  Why the aggression toward us or what we're trying to do for you and why such distrust?  Are you actually a broker or part of some firm's management just watching this board?  What possible reason would you have to be offended by the fact that people are out here actually trying to change a corrupt system, particularly when it benefits you and your co-workers?

You can be as personally offensive as you wish and call us "whores" (although you don't even know us) but don't dissuade others who actually want legal help from seeking it; employers have done that for years and some of us are getting really tired of it.

[/quote]

OH-and by the way leech, I'm not in 'management'....unless you call owning my own one-man branch "management".

Or as Shakespeare wrote in Henry VI, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

I am truly amazed that there were enough losers to actually make it worthwhile for the worms to sue a single firm much less several of them.

[quote=ClassCounsel]

Believe me when I tell you that our goals here are only to get brokers paid for the long hours we know they work. It's really that simple.

Is that so? Then how about agreeing to take a flat fee, say, $50 a head for each broker instead of the 30% (minimum) cut of the blackmail, er, settlement proceeds? What's that? It isn't that simple anymore?

It may seem like a hassle to punch a time clock, but let's be serious; how much work is punching a time clock when you're then able to collect your overtime pay plus your commissions?

Tell me you're not that dimwitted. We aren't hourly employees because we don't want to be. We're paid on results, not hours required to attain them. We have great flexibility and earning potential because of that fact.

You're fully aware of what the end effect will be here. Some washouts (or soon to be) will get some small checks, you and your fellow whores will get massive checks and this industry will go from being an entrepreneurial opportunity to a salary.

[/quote]

[quote=ClassCounsel]

I should mention as well, that the scenario about being "locked out" of your office is quite unrealistic.  The goal of these cases is to alow you to keep your commissions, but ALSO get you overtime pay.  Why would naturally assume the company is being completely open with you and that anyone challanging them is "dirty?"  These are seasoned brokers filing these cases who are standing up for what's right, not gold-diggers looking for "get-rich-quick" schemes.

I can't believe you actually think the way you say you do.  I'm sure you're just having fun at our expense.  Whether I'm right or not, we're sorry to have upset you so by representing some of these clients.

[/quote]

I wish you would leave this industry alone.  We all know you are in it for yourself  $$$$$$ and not for any altruistic reason.  You realize that if the companies are forced to pay overtime the commission payout will be even further reduced.  Oh....wait you don't give a sh*t about that....just your own pocket and the short term results.

I am an independent contractor and want to keep it that way. I don't want to work for an hourly wage.   Been there and done that.  I want to work as many or as few hours as I feel like. If I can work for 30 minutes and make $5000 or if I have to work for 30 hours to make that same figure, then what do you care.  It is my choice.  No one has any of us chained to the desks.  We can quit anytime we like.  Butt the f*@K out.   And leave Wal Mart alone too.

If you want to do something constructive in the labor arena, make Banks stop hiring part time people who work 29 hours at a measly pay scale and then having them work overtime. By working less than 30 hours the banks don't have to pay benefits.  Unless it has changed in the last 10 years or less, the overtime didn't count towards qualifying for benefits.    How about jumping all over the banks for the salaried management positions.  No commissions and yet expected to work as many hours as it takes.

You are such a hypocrite 

[quote=babbling looney][quote=ClassCounsel]

I should mention as well, that the scenario about being "locked out" of your office is quite unrealistic.  The goal of these cases is to alow you to keep your commissions, but ALSO get you overtime pay.  Why would naturally assume the company is being completely open with you and that anyone challanging them is "dirty?"  These are seasoned brokers filing these cases who are standing up for what's right, not gold-diggers looking for "get-rich-quick" schemes.

I can't believe you actually think the way you say you do.  I'm sure you're just having fun at our expense.  Whether I'm right or not, we're sorry to have upset you so by representing some of these clients.

[/quote]

I wish you would leave this industry alone.  We all know you are in it for yourself  $$$$$$ and not for any altruistic reason.  You realize that if the companies are forced to pay overtime the commission payout will be even further reduced.  Oh....wait you don't give a sh*t about that....just your own pocket and the short term results.

I am an independent contractor and want to keep it that way. I don't want to work for an hourly wage.   Been there and done that.  I want to work as many or as few hours as I feel like. If I can work for 30 minutes and make $5000 or if I have to work for 30 hours to make that same figure, then what do you care.  It is my choice.  No one has any of us chained to the desks.  We can quit anytime we like.  Butt the f*@K out.   And leave Wal Mart alone too.

If you want to do something constructive in the labor arena, make Banks stop hiring part time people who work 29 hours at a measly pay scale and then having them work overtime. By working less than 30 hours the banks don't have to pay benefits.  Unless it has changed in the last 10 years or less, the overtime didn't count towards qualifying for benefits.    How about jumping all over the banks for the salaried management positions.  No commissions and yet expected to work as many hours as it takes.

You are such a hypocrite 

[/quote]

Babs you ROCK!   Well said all around!

Sadly, though, these morons may not realize the financial implications of their actions....the reduced payouts and destructions of entrepreneurial spirit in the business.  You see, they don't have to care about the long-term implications as long as they get their fees.

Farking leeches!

Mike-liked your post too.

Counsellor, I think you made a big mistake when you presented your sleazy idea to this group.

Wall Street is circling the wagons--brokers will be warned that if they sign on for your shakedown they will be kissing their careers goodbye.

Why not go sue a McDonalds operator because his coffee was too hot or stand on a corner and wait for an accident?

Or better yet, start your car but forget to open the garage door.

[quote=mikebutler222]Tell me you're not that dimwitted. We aren't hourly employees because we don't want to be. We're paid on results, not hours required to attain them. We have great flexibility and earning potential because of that fact.[/quote]

Good point.  If overtime is an issue, and earning what some will view as "due to them" for working long hours in a, dare I say...COMMISSION-PAID INDUSTRY...scrap the commission idea and go work for a salary.  I'm sure, though, that some lawyer will come up with a way for salary paid professionals to also earn overtime.  Sure, everyone would love to work a 40 hour work week (those that typically work infinitely more hours, especially), but that's the nature of the beast.  In my opinion - advisors that don't like it can high-tail it out of the business and take their greedy attornies with them.

Well, it is evident that you few people do not understand what these cases are about.  That's too bad, because you're perpetuating ignorance in others by your unwillingness to get informed.

Also, you should understand that I am not suing anyone; other brokers are doing the suing, we just represent them, although it's funny that you target the lawyers.  As a former successful broker, I would also have not wanted my commissions taken away and would not be asking that this happen or that your so-called "flexibility" be taken away.  Let's face reality here though, you are salespeople, plain and simple, and it's not rocket-science to sell financial products.  Salespeople typically get paid an hourly wage (plus commissions on occassion, depending on the industry) in every state of the nation.  If you believe otherwise, read the law.  Why should you be special?  If you read the law and become knowledegable about this, it might make you feel weird to know your employer is lying to you.

Anyway, as opposed to the repeated personal attacks on the messenger (my office), focus on the facts and think about these specific questions.  If you do, you may understand why these other brokers are pioneers, not criminals.

How can we miss you if you don't go away?

You have accomplished something that is almost impossible--being less popular than a dose of clap and me at the same time.

Mr. Cole, you destroyed the careers of every currently registered broke who you, and your fellow whores, have enticed to join you as you sue the very hands that feed them.

Don't play word games with intelligent men and women--you are suing our employers and you are promising pie in the sky nonsense to some poor suckers who heard the siren song before the rest of us had a chance to warn them.

I suspect you are a Johnny Come Lately to the idea--but as you have been for your entire life, you're an hour late and a dollar short.

Please just take a hike--you're not welcome in society, polite or otherwise.

In reponse to the comment: "We aren't hourly employees because we don't want to be," that's not how it works.  You are not above the law, folks.  You cannot legally waive your right to be hourly employees and get overtime pay (and why the heck would you, when you can still get your commissions, unless you just hate money?).  You may have been convinced that there is some "prestige" in being salaried or commissioned; I've heard that line before.  However, Congress dicatte who is hourly or salaried, not the salespeople (brokers) or their corrupt employers.

Anyway, have your fun.  I won't write here any more.  I just wanted to get the word out about what's happening.  For the other peole on here who are paying attention and care, stay informed.  Your employers probably owe you overtime pay and cannot blacklist you or harass you for standing up for your legal rights.

Here's quote I think is fitting:  "To consent to evil against another, is to become an accomplice to the evil act itself."  -MLK, Jr.

Take care.

Let me see if I have this right.  A tort whore is calling A.G. Edwards and Sons a corrupt employer.

World-class chutzpah.

[quote=ClassCounsel]Salespeople typically get paid an hourly wage (plus commissions on occassion, depending on the industry) in every state of the nation.  If you believe otherwise, read the law.  Why should you be special?  If you read the law and become knowledegable about this, it might make you feel weird to know your employer is lying to you.[/quote]

I've never been an attorney before, so maybe I'm not in the loop.  When a BD has something in writing that this is a NON-SALARY position, how do the FAs have a leg to stand on.  Yes, in some industries, salespeople are paid a salary, but not largely in this business, and that is understood going in.  You reap the benefits of your hard work by earning what you put into it.

[quote=ClassCounsel].

Anyway, have your fun.  I won't write here any more.  I just wanted to get the word out about what's happening.  For the other peole on here who are paying attention and care, stay informed.  Your employers probably owe you overtime pay and cannot blacklist you or harass you for standing up for your legal rights.

[/quote]

Sure you can be blacklisted--very casually.  If you were working with me the first thing that would happen is all of the other branch managers in town would hear that you had sued us, and I was wondering what they would do if they were me.

Next I would stop giving you any help--you could come to work every day and do your deal, with absolutely no assistance.

I would add more work to your sales assistant and tell her that if she wanted to slow down on helping you in order to help the other guys she'd get no grief from me.

If your clients ever called me to complain I'd agree with them that you were a bit incompetent, but that I'd look into it.  Should you actually have a claim filed I would INSTANTLY tell our legal people to file the necessary paperwork to separate us from you as co-defendants.  I would explain that you were a rogue broker that I was having trouble with and knew it was just a matter of time.

I would paper your employment file with censures every chance I got. Show up late, you're going to sign a document saying you were warned to be on time.  Leave early and you're going to sign a document saying you were warned to stay till the end of the day.

I would change the locks on the door and give keys to everybody in the branch except you.  At 5:00 I would order you off the premises.

Nothing I would have done would be harrassment--just doing my job as the manager.

Only a fool would sue the hand that feeds them.

In reponse to the comment: “We aren’t hourly employees because we don’t want to be,” that’s not how it works.  You are not above the law, folks.  You cannot legally waive your right to be hourly employees and get overtime pay (and why the heck would you, when you can still get your commissions, unless you just hate money?).  You may have been convinced that there is some “prestige” in being salaried or commissioned; I’ve heard that line before.  However, Congress dicatte who is hourly or salaried, not the salespeople (brokers) or their corrupt employers

I am not an hourly employee. I haven't waived any such rights. I am an independent contractor.  There is no prestige, or any other such stupidity you are trying to wave past our noses, to being a contracted or commissioned employee.  It is purely a matter of choice on my part and I might add on the part of my  husband who has a separate business wherein he is also an independent contractor.

Common law principles further define independent contractor status by method of compensation. If a person is on an employer's payroll and receives a steady paycheck, clearly that the person is an employee rather than an independent contractor, who likely receives payment in a different manner. Other considerations when identifying someone as an independent contractor may include:

If the worker supplies his or her own equipment, materials and tools   Yep. I do. If all necessary materials are not supplied by the employer  Only some materials are supplied and they are pretty much optional. If the worker can be discharged at anytime and can choose whether or not to come to work without fear of losing employment   Yeppers.  I can sit here and BS on this forum and no one can fire me.  If the worker control the hours of employment thus indicating they are acting as an independent contractor   No one tells me how many hours to work.  My choice. Whether the work is temporary or permanent  No contract.  I am an at will worker

The above is a definition of independent contractor as opposed to an hourly employee.

There has been some discussion that because we, as registered advisors, are subject to rules that control our trades and other activities we "could" be classified as employees of our broker dealers because we have to submit certain paperwork and abide by a set of rules.  

These courts also use the "right to control" test. When the hiring party controls the way work is carried out and a product is delivered, the relationship between the parties is employer/employee. If an employer does not have authority over how a party accomplishes his or her work but simply give requests an outline, the relationship between the parties is that of hiring party/independent contractor.

 HOWEVER, since these rules are not those mandated by our broker dealers, but are instead mandated by the US Government, SEC and other regulatory entities, it could be construed that we are in fact employees of those entities and not the broker dealer who has no control over these rules.  If that is the case, then I demand my benefit package, health insurance and other perks that come with being a government employee.   If you can't get me those items, then bugger off.

[quote=ClassCounsel]

Well, it is evident that you few people do not understand what these cases are about.  That’s too bad, because you’re perpetuating ignorance in others by your unwillingness to get informed.

Also, you should understand that I am not suing anyone; other brokers are doing the suing, we just represent them, although it's funny that you target the lawyers.  As a former successful broker, I would also have not wanted my commissions taken away and would not be asking that this happen or that your so-called "flexibility" be taken away.  Let's face reality here though, you are salespeople, plain and simple, and it's not rocket-science to sell financial products.  Salespeople typically get paid an hourly wage (plus commissions on occassion, depending on the industry) in every state of the nation.  If you believe otherwise, read the law.  Why should you be special?  If you read the law and become knowledegable about this, it might make you feel weird to know your employer is lying to you.

Anyway, as opposed to the repeated personal attacks on the messenger (my office), focus on the facts and think about these specific questions.  If you do, you may understand why these other brokers are pioneers, not criminals.

[/quote]

"We're not suing anyone the brokers(washouts) are!"

"Hey look you're just salesmen.  It's not rocket science."  What, like being a leech litigator who sues everyone?  Is THAT rocket science?

OMG you are a fool and a horse's behind.  You expect us to believe that you would have become a lawyer if you were really a "former successful broker"?

Brokers have been paid on full commissions for years.  This is not "every other industry".