Reflecting

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Oct 16, 2006 2:38 pm

 Do I WANT TO WORK FOR A FIRM THAT HAS A CONFLICT OF INTREST WHEN A CLIENT BUYS A MFD OR FOR ONE THAT DOES NOT? I HOPE YOU ARE DISCLOSING TO ALL YOUR MFD BUYERS THAT YOU{gps} MAKE MORE MONEY WHEN THEY BUY ANY OF THE LUCKY EIGHT.

Oct 16, 2006 2:44 pm

Spiff,

Good arguments.  I think the point that they were going for is that, while they do have to cover some expenses at Jones, they only get paid out at 38% (or so).  As an independent, they will see payouts from 80-90%, sometimes more. 

Oct 16, 2006 2:45 pm

Spiff, a pretty balanced response...just a couple of additions from Indy-land...

9. I've seen the Jones system and have worked with several others...yeah, this is definitely not Jones' brightest area...I've yet to run across a platform that wouldn't match up.  I'd think the GP's would be happy to junk the satellite and upgrade to a cheaper and more efficient land-based system, but for some unknown reason, they keep hanging on to a dinosaur...

13.  That carrot has been hanging for a looooooooong time.

14.  I can't answer for the others, but absolutely my wife can get a buyout for my book if I leave this world before I get to sell it. 100-150% of trailing 12 is a nice little bonus in this regard.

18.  Yes, as an indy I pay 100% of my health insurance, BUT I get a substantial "above the line" tax break for self-employed health insurance premiums.

20.  I did a client approciation event this summer and could have easily had wholesalers foot the bill.  As it was, not being greedy, I asked for and received 2/3rds of the total cost of the event.

21. Funny...now I know what to do with my old copies of Registered Rep...

22.  I was scratching my head trying to figure out what a "nosey" printer was...thanks for clearing that up...

26.  Good point...hopefully these two concerns came at different times in his life...

Overall, points well taken.  It just goes to show that some are better fits for Jones than others...

Oct 16, 2006 3:57 pm

A death benefit can be huge for an advisor's family.  Obviously, life insurance is there for a reason, but when someone has invested their career in building a practice, simply walking away is absolutely silly, especially when there are many places that employ this strategy, both for independents and employees.  God forbid something terrible happen to where an advisor dies or cannot work due to illness, injury, etc.  Why just hand this over to someone when you and/or your family can benefit from the sale of the practice?

Oct 16, 2006 6:40 pm

[quote=BrokerRecruit]

Spiff,

Good arguments.  I think the point that they were going for is that, while they do have to cover some expenses at Jones, they only get paid out at 38% (or so).  As an independent, they will see payouts from 80-90%, sometimes more. 

[/quote]

That will handle about 90% of Spiff's arguments...I don't mind paying my office expenses of I'm getting a 90% payout...at 38%...I'm pi$$ed.

Oct 16, 2006 7:10 pm

Spiff,

I guess I should have fleshed out some of my bullet points because you're not getting it...(see above)...I was not attempting to write a book.  I was just giving reasons why I left and what makes owning your business a better deal.  EJ is a great place to start but after 3 or 4 years it's time to graduate to Indy...EJ is the perfect training ground for that. 

If you noticed, I made a point to give the year of my departure so I can fully understand Jones addressing some of my issues.  There is still a corp. culture that is at the heart of the problem.  HQ always gave the IR the impression that they were doing us a favor.  This was the impression other got too...but I guess we are all malcontents.  HQ would say one thing but did another.  When I start in 1998, Jones was much more like a family and then they tried to grow too fast and it they lost their way.  I gave them the outline to fix the issues but I couldn't get anyone to listen...I sent stuff directly to JB but got no response.  You should at least acknowledge someone who is putting it on the line to be an advocate for change from the inside.

EJ made some very bad decisions and failed to address some real issues for the vets and that is why the firm has not grown in 3 or 4 years.  GP's are too far removed from the field to give a damn about their Customer...the IR.  EJ just doesn't understand that they just print statements and the broker is the real bread winner.

As far as the trips things...I was complaining about Jones pay for my date, just the fact that I wasn't allowed to bring one (no I was not married at the time).  Gays could bring a "friend" but not us straight folks...is that messed up or what?  Just another example of a corp. policy made to legislate morality doing the opp.

B-shares...I was only making the point that below breakpoints, you could make the argument that they are better for the client so why penalize the broker for that.  C-shares can also be used as a fee based alternative but Jones lowed the payout to 20% or 30% (can't remember which).  Spiff...did you know that EJ is skimming .75 to 1 % off the top of your b-share annuity tickets?  I didn't mind paying EJ 60% but to have them steal from me kind of ticket me off.  I know you're going to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about but those of us in the real world know it's true.

Why should I buy additional life insurance when my wife can either take over or sell my business?  Who would pay for that insurance?  My wife can sell my business or pass it on without spending a dime...can you say that.  Instead...some GP's kid, who did earn a thing, will box up your personal crap (he will most likely keep the TP and the pens) and tell your spouse to haul ass.  Is that what you Jones people call "owning" your business?

My list wasn't perfect and I'm sorry I didn't take the time to flesh it out in a way to better communicate my issues...I just assumed you would understand the dif. between a 39% payout and a 90% payout and get the point....I guess not.

Did you see the post were I mentioned I was "deep throat" in the WSJ story that cost Hill his job?  I are telling all your MFD clients about revenue sharing...I didn't think so.

Oct 16, 2006 7:47 pm

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]

No Fire and Theft insurance - What did  you keep in your office that was really worth insuring?  Other than the pics of my kids I don't keep things here of any real value.  Maybe the fridge or a conference table.  I'll bet your landlord had insurance.

Too much empowerment for office assistant (BOA)…they are literally there to keep an eye on you…your own employee…what a joke.  The IR generates all the revenue and the BOA is in charge. -
Why was your BOA in charge of you.  Did you hire your wife?  My BOA is there to support me.  Nothing else.  The only reason the BOA might have run the office is if you let her.  

For years discouraged brokers from getting a CFP - Maybe didn't encourage is the right phrasing.  Now depending on what you want your biz to be, CFP is a big plus at Jones. 

[/quote]

No landlord has fire insurance for their tenants...you would know that if you had "owned" your business.  Business interruption insurance and liability is also part of the deal.  Do you think that if a client slips on your office floor that they can't sue you because Jones pays the rent?  I suggest that you get some liability insurance tomorrow.  We had two hurricanes hit my office in 3 weeks...it can happen...those satellites don't work too well without power nor are your clients interested in doing any biz before and after a hurricane.  There is a lot more at stake than you are thinking about.  Give me some credit for mentioning issues for a reason.  Those of us who have left have more real world experience than the closed world of Jones.  Make it a point to have lunch with brokers outside EJ...you might see things a little dif.

My BOA never told me what to do but Jones uses THEIR employee to keep and eye on you...ask around...it's happening to other brokers in your region.  In my old region, the BOA's had meetings to bitch about the broker and to see who was getting what (extra time off HQ didn't know about, etc.).  Does your BOA straighten the office...if so...you're in big trouble Mister!  I'm sure your BOA is far too busy to clean the office...but you can hire an outside company to come in and clean JONES' office at your expense (remember EJ is getting 61%)...and don't forget to buy the trash bags.  I don't mind that since I'm getting 90%.  See what happens if your BOA claims your sexually harassed her or your client did (no this did not happen to me).  HQ is so scared that the BOA's word is taken over the broker 90% of the time.  I know one guy that was read the riot act for firing his BOA for drinking on the job...and she was caught more than once.  If you look...you will find many many stories to back up my assertion.  Oh yeah...does Jones supply a shredder?   I didn't think so.

When I was at Jones you could not put "CFP" or any other designation accept AAMS on your business card.  Jones did not want the liability...now they seem to have changed their mind which is just fine.

Oct 17, 2006 8:48 am

[quote=uwec86][quote=Spaceman Spiff]

No Fire and Theft insurance - What did  you keep in your office that was really worth insuring?  Other than the pics of my kids I don't keep things here of any real value.  Maybe the fridge or a conference table.  I'll bet your landlord had insurance.

Too much empowerment for office assistant (BOA)…they are literally there to keep an eye on you…your own employee…what a joke.  The IR generates all the revenue and the BOA is in charge. -
Why was your BOA in charge of you.  Did you hire your wife?  My BOA is there to support me.  Nothing else.  The only reason the BOA might have run the office is if you let her.  

For years discouraged brokers from getting a CFP - Maybe didn't encourage is the right phrasing.  Now depending on what you want your biz to be, CFP is a big plus at Jones. 

[/quote]

No landlord has fire insurance for their tenants...you would know that if you had "owned" your business.  Business interruption insurance and liability is also part of the deal.  Do you think that if a client slips on your office floor that they can't sue you because Jones pays the rent?  I suggest that you get some liability insurance tomorrow.  We had two hurricanes hit my office in 3 weeks...it can happen...those satellites don't work too well without power nor are your clients interested in doing any biz before and after a hurricane.  There is a lot more at stake than you are thinking about.  Give me some credit for mentioning issues for a reason.  Those of us who have left have more real world experience than the closed world of Jones.  Make it a point to have lunch with brokers outside EJ...you might see things a little dif.

My BOA never told me what to do but Jones uses THEIR employee to keep and eye on you...ask around...it's happening to other brokers in your region.  In my old region, the BOA's had meetings to bitch about the broker and to see who was getting what (extra time off HQ didn't know about, etc.).  Does your BOA straighten the office...if so...you're in big trouble Mister!  I'm sure your BOA is far too busy to clean the office...but you can hire an outside company to come in and clean JONES' office at your expense (remember EJ is getting 61%)...and don't forget to buy the trash bags.  I don't mind that since I'm getting 90%.  See what happens if your BOA claims your sexually harassed her or your client did (no this did not happen to me).  HQ is so scared that the BOA's word is taken over the broker 90% of the time.  I know one guy that was read the riot act for firing his BOA for drinking on the job...and she was caught more than once.  If you look...you will find many many stories to back up my assertion.  Oh yeah...does Jones supply a shredder?   I didn't think so.

When I was at Jones you could not put "CFP" or any other designation accept AAMS on your business card.  Jones did not want the liability...now they seem to have changed their mind which is just fine.

[/quote]

It is interesting an interesting argument that EDJ hires and trains the BOAs.  There are some that really don't care what goes on within the office. 

There have been many instances in the past (when I recruited FAs largely and, more specifically EDJ IRs) when I called an office and was grilled by the BOA (which I would admit is their job), only to be told that the IR was not interested in new opportunities (I was very up front with them), only to speak with that IR directly and find out that they are interested in speaking with other companies about new opportunities.

The BOA is not a partner for the IR, but someone who manages the office operationally.  They are, I would assume, ordered to protect the company in every way when it regards the potential departure of one of their IRs. 

When you compare this to an assistant or Ops Manager with an indy or someone who is truly a partner with their advisor (at a wirehouse, perhaps), it is a completely different story - they don't spy, they don't keep the advisor from looking at outside opportunities because it will usually mean that they are along for the ride, too, and will have a vested interest in the overall success of that practice.

Oct 17, 2006 9:12 am

Another BOA (that's an assistant to the rest of us) story...

My buddy's kid had some very serious medical problem and he was out of the office a great deal.  The BOA kept track of his time and turned him in...what a joke.  She did all kinds of other wacky stuff and finally got fired but not until the broker threatened to quit.  She got something like 3 or 6 months pay and training for a new career. 

Before you start assuming a bunch of stuff on the side of the BOA...I was there and she was wrong on so many levels but EJ protected her first.  It happens all the time.

Oct 17, 2006 11:07 am

I love the good natured debate on this forum.  Gets my adrenaline pumping. 

U86, I'm sure you and I could go on and on about the differences between Jones and your current B/D.  It sounds like you were ready to make a change.  BTW, I think the BOAs you are referring to are the exceptions to the rule.  The majority of them are incredible.  They run the office incredibly well.  Mine doesn't have any idea how many hours I really work, nor does she care.  She is a pretty good gatekeeper.  Most recruiters don't get through.  Sorry, BrokerRecruit.  If I ever decide to look at other opportunities, I'll let her know to get info so I can call them back.  Right now, we don't waste the time.  I'm sure when BOAs get together there is a lot of "my broker..." talk.  We do the same things as brokers, we just start it with "I've got this client..." 

Indy, there are a couple of people on this forum that I like hearing from.  You are one of them.  I'd love to have lunch with a guy like you sometime and have a good discussion about the differences in our two worlds.  If you have any Jones friends ask them to show you our new financial assessment tools.  Jones is slowly rolling out the cool stuff, but we already have enough tools to overwhelm most of our clients pretty quickly.  And the old satellite system is soon to be history.  They're in the process of putting us all on land lines.  I think I'm slated for Febuary of 2010.  Actually it should happen in the next 6 months. 

I've enjoyed this debate and I look forward to the next one I'm sure is just around the bend. 

Oct 17, 2006 11:17 am

Jones has been getting rid of the old satellite system for about 5 years now from what I hear.

Oct 17, 2006 11:20 am

They're waiting for the satellite's orbit to decay.  In another 600 years it'll hit earth and then all the other firms better look out!

Oct 17, 2006 11:31 am

Spiff,

I'd very careful about all of a sudden letting your BOA know you want to hear from other firms...more than one guy has been turned in by his BOA.  I'd suggest you listen to them now as a regular course of business and file the info. away for the time when you're ready to leave...and you will be some day.  I've got a spreadsheet that will help you do some math on the dif. in payout and expenses if you want it...PM me.

Oct 17, 2006 11:50 am

[quote=Spaceman Spiff]She is a pretty good gatekeeper.  Most recruiters don't get through.  Sorry, BrokerRecruit.  If I ever decide to look at other opportunities, I'll let her know to get info so I can call them back.  Right now, we don't waste the time.  [/quote]

Believe me - no hard feelings.

Oct 17, 2006 11:50 am

I guess you all have heard about the Jones new fee based platform.  A proposal should be in by 12/31/06.  You guys are running out of bad topics to discuss

Oct 17, 2006 11:55 am

I would also agree with uwec - be cautious as to what you tell your BOA or other IRs.  They can be your best buddy until you drop that bomb that you want to leave.  All of a sudden, that IR that was your friend, is now an opportunistic SOB that would love to rat you out and solicit your clients. 

Oct 17, 2006 12:57 pm

I opened my EDJ office not too long ago, and we opened with the land lines (satellite just for training, broadcasts, etc.).  You would be surprised how far the firm has come just in the past year.  Jim Weddle actually makes things happen.  Nice to see.

Oct 17, 2006 1:56 pm

Sounds like a firm that I would want to be with - one that is the last in the game with things that are really important to my business ie. Technology, Fee based options, etc...

Always making it easier for the rep to compete, I guess.

Oct 17, 2006 2:24 pm

[quote=success]I guess you all have heard about the Jones new fee based platform.  A proposal should be in by 12/31/06.  You guys are running out of bad topics to discuss[/quote]

Wow…so by the end of 2006 they are going to give you a PROPOSAL for a hypothetical NEW fee-based platform.  That’s awesome!

Meanwhile, I’ve been doing fee-based business since 2000…

Oct 17, 2006 2:51 pm

You would think the entire investment community revolves around fee based business…I, along with several thousand other brokers are doing quite well on our platform.