Karma
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Catholic[/quote][quote=BondGuy][quote=Morphius] [quote=BondGuy]The gay gov’s name: McGreevey. Along with being gay he was also quite corrupt. And you’re going to love this: He is now in Seminary to become a preist while he lives with his millionaire gay lover. Ops, I mean partner. [/quote]
In which Church is he in Seminary for?
Bond Guy,
I don't know squat about McGreevey, but I can say with certainty that he is NOT in a Catholic Seminary. Please double check your source.
[/quote] You are quite right, I stand corrected. Jim is in an Episcopal seminary. I read right through it. Apologies to all offended Catholics.
The Episcopal church seems to be the one who is most accepting of “everyone”. Never mind that the Bible says women shouldn’t be preachers or that being gay is wrong. I believe one of the words used is deplorable. We’ll just edit those verses out so that everyone feels comfortable.
Space-
Now I know you are ready to be a GP when you start quoting your version of your bible. Dude you had better find a life outside of yourself. This is a country of tolerance. Your views are anything but. I live on the West Coast, a predominantly liberal area. I am married to the same women for 21 years with three kids and I have learned to keep my mouth shut before I say stupid things that I will regret like being gay is wrong. I don't care if your bible says it. Keep it to yourself. At least you only look stupid to yourself and not the rest of us who are tolerant of others behaviors.Spiff, every religion in the world can be divided into on of two categories: They are either churches of love or they are churches of hate. The churches of love teach that God loves us and forgives us for our sins and short comings. Those who sin are treated with love. Acceptence is a cornerstone of these religions. On the other hand the churches of hate also preach that god loves us. Yet, with these religions God punishes sinners, generally reserving the lowest bowls of hell, well, maybe one level up from corrupt politicians, for sinners that fail to follow a laundry list of self serving rules laid out by the church. These churches are highly exclusionary but seem not to let their narrow version of God's love get in the way of practicing their religion to to its nastiest extent. it's not too difficult to figure out where the Catholic Church falls on this line. And as a Catholic, I wish it were different.The Episcopal church seems to be the one who is most accepting of “everyone”. Never mind that the Bible says women shouldn’t be preachers or that being gay is wrong. I believe one of the words used is deplorable. We’ll just edit those verses out so that everyone feels comfortable.
Since this is not a theology forum, I would suggest we keep our focus on industry issues. There are other outlets and forums more appropriate to address the other issues.
Or, as an alternative, you can just skip any forum topic that you find inappropriate.Since this is not a theology forum, I would suggest we keep our focus on industry issues. There are other outlets and forums more appropriate to address the other issues.
[quote=xej1984][quote=rankstocks]Couldn’t happen to a more deserving person. I about fell out of my chair when I heard about this. Of all people, he should have kept to the strait and narrow, especially after all the accusations he has made over the years. Now that he has made his bed…time to sleep in it.
-I wonder if he will indict himself.[/quote] sorta makes one think of the time a managing general partner had to step down as part of a negotiated settlement for some misdeeds of his mid-west, one broker per sub-branch location? how ironic![/quote] Just to keep everyone doing their pennance....sorry about the choice of words[quote=BondGuy]Or, as an alternative, you can just skip any forum topic that you find inappropriate.[/quote]
You may well have been raised Catholic, my friend, but it’s readily apparent that you know much, much more about investing than you do about the teachings of that Church. All you have managed to do in your post is to grossly misrepresent what you think the Catholic Church teaches, and then proceed to criticize and ridicule your own sad misrepresentation. That hardly rises to the level of useful discourse.
If you are determined to criticize the Catholic Church, at least criticize something that the Church actually teaches rather than attacking some silly stereotype that has no actual basis in Church teaching. As Archbishop Fulton Sheen once said:
There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the
Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe
to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing.
Pax Christi, my brother.
Didn’t anyone ever tell you guys not to discuss religion and politics… this post now officially has both.
Disclaimer: Catholic since birth, love and accept every religion in the world that is tolerant and peace loving. (getting harder and harder to find). Considering becoming pagan and worshiping an oak tree that I find particularly attractive in my back yard. I do not currently own, nor do any of my clients, any stock in any current religious institution, nor do I fall on the altar of Jones. Any advice given in this post should not be construed as a suggestion to join or leave any religious institution without first consulting the clergy of your choice. When discussing religion it is important to remember past performance should not be considered indicative of future results.
Newindy
P.S. Any grammatical or spelling errors should be attributed to my holy ghost writer
I would also prefer to avoid politics and religion on this forum, new indy. And Joe, I never said that the Catholic Church has nothing to criticize. I said the criticism cited was silly because it was critical of something that is not even part of Church teaching. That’s akin to spreading lies about someone because you don’t like them.
Or to use an investment analogy, that’s like me saying bonds suck because they didn’t prevent some bond owners from losing their jobs. Bonds certainly can be criticized on several fronts, but to criticize them for something they never actually claimed to do is silly, not denial.
What I said is that when it comes to religion there are two camps, hate and love. The hate group is exclusionary, punishes, and rarely forgives. In fact, the Catholics have their own version of non forgiveness, it's called excommunication.The love camp is inclusive, doesn't punish or threaten to punish and forgives. I believe that's called turning the other cheek, one of God's teachings.
Morph, you yourself, in true catholic form made sure you distanced yourself and the church from a gay man. Very loving!! As i said, I'm catholic. Once in the tribe, there is no way out. But I've been done with the Catholic church for a long time. Believe me when i say, for this family that's a big deal. My beef with the Catholic is both personal and theological. On the personal side I put together something I'd seen as a young child with the back story told to me as a young adult. And that was; when I was six years old I'd seen my father physically pick up a priest and throw him out the door of our apartment as he screamed and cursed at the guy. The backstory was, hours earlier my 18 month old baby brother had been discovered dead in his crib. The priest was called to console my parents. As it turns out my father had been married once before and divorced before he married my mother. This of course excommunicated both of them. It's that exclusionary thing. When the priest found this out he told my parents that Robbie's death was God's punishmnet for their illegal in the eyes of the church marriage and excommunication. That's when my father, enraged, picked that POS bum up and threw him out of the apartment. Even with that, my parents raised us catholic. They didn't go to church but we did, every Sunday. We got the entire catholic grand tour. Education, the works. The amazing part was that others in the family had alerted not only our church to what had been said, but their own churhes. Over the years the story was told to countless priests. Not one ever made an effort to tell my mother that Robbie's death wasn't her fault. Not one! She didn't get peace until I told the story to a Methodist minister. When I told him the story he said we need to go see your mother right now. And we did. He told her God loved her and that the pain she'd felt all these years was not from God, but from one very stupid man. The minister spent hours with her and came to see her everyday for a week. She found peace. A few years later, my father's first marriage was annulled. Of course the catholic Church welcomed them back with open arms. My mother was thrilled. My father told them to go eff themselves. As fpr me, I had walked into a methodist church one Sunday. i couldn't believe the differences. There was no fire and brimstone. No punishment. Only love. the minister spoke to the people, not at them. And his sermon was not shoe horned into a ten minute segment of a symbalic mass. When this guy was done speaking he left you wanting for more. it was here that i learned God isn't a tyrant. It was here that I learned wht god is about. So Morph, do what you will with the catholic Church, but don't ever come on here and tell me what i know and what I don't about it. Because I've lived it. My family has suffered by it.Thanks for the explanation on your personal experiences,
BondGuy. It certainly helps me to better
understand where you are coming from, and why you feel as you do about the
Catholic Church.
First, please accept my sincere sympathies for the tragic loss of your baby brother. I can’t imagine how painful that must have been. I’m sure that pain was compounded by the words of the priest at the time or the lack of words from other priests since that time.
I’d like to think you and I “know” each other well enough from our digital conversations here to at know that while we may disagree on certain issues, we can do so without meaning any malice or ill will to the other in the process. If I offended you I did so unintentionally and apologize. I think this helps to underscore why such topics are best handled in person. Far too much is lost in the digital translation.
In this sense, I think Joe’s most recent comment is helpful. It is not simply the theology but how it is implemented - or as Joe said 'how it's supposed to work" - that has to be considered. My point – apparently not expressed well – is that many of the criticisms that have been voiced are more about the implementation than the theology. The original plan was great, but the implementation is far too often flawed, being dependent as it is on imperfect individuals. Individuals like that priest who failed you and your poor parents.
I know it’s asking a lot after what you’ve been through, BondGuy, but please try to at least consider this distinction between the apparent failings of the Church and the failings of her members. After all, if we judge any religion by the failures of its members to live up to its teachings, no religion will pass mustard.
All I know is that Al Queda wants to chop all our heads off…did anyone check out the Spitzer Girl myspace page? I don’t she worth $5,500…
I was not happy to see that happen to him, yeah he has done some bully type of stuff....But it could happen to anybody in a moment of weakness, granted he had about 80,000 worth of weakness, but those who rejoice are not better than him.
[quote=Morphius]
Thanks for the explanation on your personal experiences, BondGuy. It certainly helps me to better understand where you are coming from, and why you feel as you do about the Catholic Church.
First, please accept my sincere sympathies for the tragic loss of your baby brother. I can’t imagine how painful that must have been. I’m sure that pain was compounded by the words of the priest at the time or the lack of words from other priests since that time.
Morphuis, this statement tells me that you don't get it. It wasn't just their words, it was their actions, and lack of actions. There was no God present in that apartment that morning. Only a petty religious bureaucrat intent on punishing my parents, not for sinning against God, but for breaking their rules. God was the club he used. And he used it at my parents greatest time of need. Morph, how cold is that? You have no idea. I’d like to think you and I “know” each other well enough from our digital conversations here to at know that while we may disagree on certain issues, we can do so without meaning any malice or ill will to the other in the process. If I offended you I did so unintentionally and apologize. I think this helps to underscore why such topics are best handled in person. Far too much is lost in the digital translation. Morpius, now you're being disingenuous. I've reread your previous post and I'am trying to figure out just what part wasn't meant to offend me? Was it where you tell me I know nothing about the Catholic Church? Is the part where you accuse me of grossly misrepresenting what the church teaches? Is it the statement about my ridiculing my own sad misreprentation? Or is it my being wrapped up in silly stereotypes? Morph, tell me, which of these offensive statements was unintentional? Clear it up for me.In this sense, I think Joe’s most recent comment is helpful. It is not simply the theology but how it is implemented - or as Joe said 'how it's supposed to work" - that has to be considered. My point – apparently not expressed well – is that many of the criticisms that have been voiced are more about the implementation than the theology. The original plan was great, but the implementation is far too often flawed, being dependent as it is on imperfect individuals. Individuals like that priest who failed you and your poor parents.
There are two sayings that apply here: Actions speak louder than words and Perception is reality. Morphuis, there is only truth in actions. Words, teachings, both are meaningless without actions to back them up. What the Catholic Church teaches, what it says, are a world apart from what it actually does. I know it’s asking a lot after what you’ve been through, BondGuy, but please try to at least consider this distinction between the apparent failings of the Church and the failings of her members. After all, if we judge any religion by the failures of its members to live up to its teachings, no religion will pass mustard. Failings? Is that what that was on that dark morning long ago? I wrote it off as a hateful act right off page one of the "How To practice Catholicism" manual. I did so because that's exactly what it was. That priest wasn't taking a unilateral misguided action against my parents when he told them they were being punished. He was carrying out church doctrine. There was no individual failure. This was and IS the Catholic Church. The Church of hate in all its glory. Morphuis, THE MEMBERS ARE THE CHURCH! IT'S NOT ABOUT TEACHINGS. IT'S ABOUT PEOPLE. And using that standard, there are plenty of religions that pass mustard. [/quote]This is going downhill fast, as there is no room for rational discussion with someone who calls the Catholic Church the ‘Church of Hate,’ and who apparently genuinely believes it is ‘Church doctrine’ that God kills infants as punishment for their parents’ supposed sins.
Now I'm not rational? Another unintentional slight? Let me lay this out for you so that reading comprehension no longer continues as an over riding factor. With sweat of my dead baby brother still on her night gown this emissary of the Catholic Church told my mother she'd gotten what she deserved. If that's not hate, what is? Of course the church didn't kill my brother but according to the church God did kill my brother to punish my parents. It's not a matter of belief, but of fact. That's exactly what was said. The priest told my parents that was exactly why my brother was dead. And to the day my mother died not one priest who was aware of the story did anything to say indicate anything different. And they had 40 years to own up to their "mistake' if that's what it was. Yet, no apology, no absolution from the catholic church. To be clear, the methodist minister did give my mother some measure of peace, but my mother was a devout catholic. It didn't come from God unless Father or Monsigior said it. Morpius, you can cheerlead for the catholic church all you'd like. And you can tell us that the church didn't do this to my parents. And you can tell us that the catholic church is all about love. Then you can reconcile that picture with the post that started this debate. That is: your affront at my mistakenly linking a gay man with the Catholic Church. Maybe that's just some other version of love that i'm not aware of, but sounds like exclusionary thinking on your part, don't you think? How dare I link a gay man with the church! Correct me if i'm wrong here, but doesn't the catholic church teach that God loves all men? Of course they do. Yet you shun a gay man. Sounds like the same old Catholic Church to me. As for having a rational discourse, how about you start by being honest instead of disingenuous?This is going downhill fast, as there is no room for rational discussion with someone who calls the Catholic Church the ‘Church of Hate,’ and who apparently genuinely believes it is ‘Church doctrine’ that God kills infants as punishment for their parents’ supposed sins.