Ej # 1?
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[quote=MBA2FA]
Okay, that does it. I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement. No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn’t for me. As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:
Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff. Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition. Of course they don't want you right in their back yard. Learn how to play the game. If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.
Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks) Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"
My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me. I was just a number until I was able to make it. RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year. Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups. Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list.
I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. The things that have you pissed at the company are things that have zero impact on whether you'll succeed or not. You should be focused right now on two things: Studying for exams and updating your contact list. Becoming an advisor right now doesn't entitle you to a welcoming party. [/quote][quote=3rdyrp2][quote=MBA2FA]
Okay, that does it. I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement. No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn’t for me. As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:
Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff. Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition. Of course they don't want you right in their back yard. Learn how to play the game. If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.
Market Area analyst refusing to tell me what areas are available and refusing to tell me geographical boundaries (I had to guess area names and he would only say "yes" or "no")RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks) Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"
My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me. I was just a number until I was able to make it. RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year. Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups. Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list.
I know that no firm is perfect, but if this is the honeymoon period, I hate to see what it's like after I start. The things that have you pissed at the company are things that have zero impact on whether you'll succeed or not. You should be focused right now on two things: Studying for exams and updating your contact list. Becoming an advisor right now doesn't entitle you to a welcoming party. [/quote][/quote] Well said, 3rd. All those things are nice, but when it comes down to it they don't matter. I have my complaints about some of the way my company does things sometimes, but at the end of the day they paycheck I earn is directly dependant on my work. It has nothing to do with whether or not my RL or anyone else in my region went to dinner with me, or called me to congratulate me on "blah blah blah". If you are looking to walk into any company with a bunch of fans crowding the streets and confetti shot at you out of cannons, you are in the wrong profession. Just be happy that you have a couple offers, and get to work.[quote=3rdyrp2][quote=MBA2FA]
Okay, that does it. I gotta call Jones and rescind my agreement. No offense to the Jones guys here who love the company, but I am now 100% sure this isn’t for me. As I started the employment process, I have had to deal with:
Man, it would behoove you to be less sensitive about that kind of stuff. Even though you are with the same firm, its a competition. Of course they don't want you right in their back yard. Learn how to play the game. If you think the Morgan Stanley boys are going to walk into your office/cubicle and give you a stack of their leads out of the kindness of their heart you are crazy.
There is a difference in being sensitive and being aware. With Jones, I have been told that I will be expected to focus on one small town and do business a very specific way. MSSB had me create a business plan to find the best way to leverage my10k contacts. MSSB supports me being licensed in multiple states (my contacts are not all in one place), yet Jones wants me to focus on a zip code.
With MSSB, I am not expecting much more than a desk and a phone. I have my own contacts and can sell to them in accordance with a business plan that I created and not have to follow a prescribed "recipe for success." MSSB loves my business plan and fully supports my approach to building my business. Jones support system is set up around their doorknocking "recipe" and not much else.
RL refusing to take my calls because he is "too busy and will call me back later" (I have been waiting by the phone for over 3 weeks) Received a call from the RL's BOA saying he's too busy to schedule my welcome dinner with just me, so I'll have to wait for other people to start so he can "get us all out of the way at one time"
My firm didn't give away some welcome dinner to me. I was just a number until I was able to make it. RL's (I have no idea who they are, I'll assume that means Regional Leader or somethng close to that) probably don't have 1-2 hours set aside for every newbie that comes through to take to dinner and chat about life when there's an 80% chance that person won't be w/the company in a year. Until you get clients and "make it", you are not that special in the minds of the higher-ups. Having dinner with someone who probably will have very little impact on your success shouldn't be something thats high on your priority list.
I don't care about dinner either way. Interestingly enough, In the past five jobs I have had, my boss has welcomed me by taking me to dinner. On the other hand I used to serve in roles that were highly valued by my organization. I was highly valued and served in key roles. I don't need to be reminded that my new organization does not value me in that same way. I would rather have no dinner than get a call letting me know that someone is too busy to have dinner with me.
I'm not sure if you understand Jones' structure (I barely get it myself), but FA's don't have a manager. Everything is completely centralized in St. Louis. I had a simple question for Jones and I have waited almost a month just to get the opportunity to talk to someone. At MSSB, I can knock on my BM's door and ask.
It's interesting how some people read so much into my posts and assume things that are not there. Im not pissed off at Jones at all. I'm glad these things have happened. It makes me much better informed to make a choice. I am comparing two options. One has a bunch of red flags and the other one has fewer. I think it's wonderful that the Jones guys think they are far superior to the wirehouses. On the other hand, why are there so meany threads about people leaving Jones? I haven't met a single person who has left a wirehouse for Jones, yet I have seen the opposite.
I agree that I should focus on studying for exams and updating my contact list. Jones has made it clear that they don't care about my contact list and it's hard to focus on studying when i can't get the 3-year/$75,000 contract out of my head.
I'm still amazed by all the Jones people telling me how I will fail. Why would I want to start with a company with this attitude? This is MUCH different than the attitude, "90% of people in this industry fail. Be warned. Unless you do XYZ, you will most likele fail. If fact, even if you do XYZ, you still may fail." Jones guys here make it a personal attack instead of a helpful warning"
[quote=BioFreeze]I think your perception of the value of your 10,000 contacts is quite distorted.
[/quote]
I think your perception of my perception of the value of my contacts is quite distorted.
You are lacking two key pieces of information to make such a statement.
I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right? Good luck though![quote=3rdyrp2] I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I’m wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right?
Good luck though![/quote]
3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren’t making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.
MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that’s just some slick HR talk, who knows?
I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that’s mostly how I continue to build it.
[quote=Moraen] [quote=3rdyrp2] I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I’m wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right?
Good luck though![/quote]
3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren’t making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.
MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that’s just some slick HR talk, who knows?
I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that’s mostly how I continue to build it.[/quote]
I don’t think is was slick HR talk. When I presented my business plan, I prefaced this portion with, “if permitted, I will prospect contacts here, here and here.” Yes, I have contacts in 50 states, and no, they will not pay for 50 states for a newbie. Most of my valuable contacts are in about 10 states. Given that the state registration fee varies, we agreed to look at everything on a state by state basis. Of course, they will not continue to pay for licenses if it’s not profitable.
I can live with starting out with only a license in my current state (plenty of business here), but I think it would be foolish to neglect the state where I did business for five years and got my MBA (huge aumni association and lots of personal contacts).
[quote=MBA2FA] [quote=Moraen] [quote=3rdyrp2] I could be wrong, as I’ve been wrong a few times before, but I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to not only solicit business but even talk about recommending to open an account with you unless you are licensed with that state. So if you’re contact list includes say, 20 people that you think may want to do business with you, MSSB is going to require you get licensed with those states before doing ANYTHING with them. If you tell them you’ve got the most contacts on your list in Pennsylvania, and they pay for the license there and you are only able to close one account for $50,000, they will probably be a little pissed an not give you the benefit of the doubt next time you ask if they can license you in another state. Most of the time when a firm pays for licensing of a new state its because a client moved away from a state you’re licensed in, you have a relative in a different state that has confirmed they’ll be a client, or you are a vet with a proven track record of closing big accounts. If they will pay for your licenses for that many states as a newbie with no financial experience then more power to you, but I think the odds are against that.
Correct me if I'm wrong again, but as an employee you are not allowed to pay for the licenses out of your own pocket, right?
Good luck though![/quote]
3rd - When I was at Jones, they paid for them, then said, if you weren't making any money in that state, they would take it out of your paycheck. Then I think they said they would pay for them.
MBA said that MSSB was open to him being licensed in multiple states. Whether that's just some slick HR talk, who knows?
I built my business at Jones mainly by out of state clients. And really, that's mostly how I continue to build it.[/quote]
I don't think is was slick HR talk. When I presented my business plan, I prefaced this portion with, "if permitted, I will prospect contacts here, here and here." Yes, I have contacts in 50 states, and no, they will not pay for 50 states for a newbie. Most of my valuable contacts are in about 10 states. Given that the state registration fee varies, we agreed to look at everything on a state by state basis. Of course, they will not continue to pay for licenses if it's not profitable.
I can live with starting out with only a license in my current state (plenty of business here), but I think it would be foolish to neglect the state where I did business for five years and got my MBA (huge aumni association and lots of personal contacts).
[/quote] MBA, I think if you just approach it positively, and can prove that you can leverage your out of state contacts, nobody at Jones will have a problem. As some have mentioned, I think they (as would most wirehouses) are probably leary of licensing someone in dozens of states that you may never actually do business in. As it stands, they put quite a bit of money into the start up of each FA, so costs are obviously an issue. But I am licensed in about 9 states, and some of those I no longer do business in (or maybe not even enough to warrent a license), and I have never even been questioned about it. They went through a a process a while ago and asked people to review their licenses to make sure it still made sense to maintain them. I have cancelled a few of mine where it didn't make sense (transferred client to local branch). I have never paid a dime in licensing fees at Jones. But also remember, you are dealing with individuals. When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer. If you choose to stay, just go about it like a business and you'll be fine.
"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, "Is this true?"
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
Fun fact of the day: If you take out the period of September 19th through October 26th of last year, the Dow is actually positive 200 points since January 25th of 2008.
...and if my Aunt had balls he'd be my Uncle!Fun fact of the day: If you take out the period of September 19th through October 26th of last year, the Dow is actually positive 200 points since January 25th of 2008.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are.“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote] Besides, when the most important part of your "business plan" is your list of 10,000 contacts spread through 4 different continents, that's not "quick business". By that I mean you can't just call them up, tell them you're a newly minted prized gem with Morgan Stanley and expect a lot of them to open accounts and transfer their life savings. Especially when these people will all know your brand new to the industry and you are roughly an average of 2,000 miles away from most of them. Either 1. You're HNW crowd will have an advisor, 2. They prefer to have a local guy that can have an appt. from time to time to look at things, 3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who's brand new, or 4. Won't mind opening an account and thinks "If this guy can do well at selling pharmaceuticals, I'm sure he can get me to a successful retirement!". #4 will be few and far between, my friend, but the key is there will definitely be some that open an account to help you out. That's a fact, its just a matter of how soon they'll do it, and how many choose to do it. And there will be a wine and dine period between 1st phone call and rollover time. You may need to fly out to Wichita once or twice to take your Finance 701 professor to a steak dinner in order for him to pull the trigger and remind him that no, you weren't sleeping in class that one day because you were bored, you just accidentally took Nyquil instead of Dayquil beforehand.[quote=MBA2FA]“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote][quote=MBA2FA]“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
Okay, call me sensitive, but when people are placing bets on whether or not I will wash out in the first 12 months, I take kind of personally.... I don't go crying to my mom, but I do find it annoying.
[Side note: I once had a manager receive multiple anonymous death threats on another industry forum. She returned home from a business trip and found printouts of the threatening forum threads nailed to her front door. Now that's what I call a threat]
As mentioned in multiple past posts, I am quite well aware of the industry failure rate. I don't think it's possible to make it to the offer stage with multiple firms without a healthy respect for the challenges of this industry.
The context of how people address my probable failure serves to me as an indication as to whether someone is trying to be helpful or just being conflictive.
For example, if someone were to say, "Your 10,000 contacts will probably be worthless because...." or "Don't rely on your past success in business because this industry is totally different. I once knew a guy like you who failed because...."
When someone says something like, "You are an idiot and a loser. I guarantee you will fail," what is the value in that? How does that help me in any way?
Granted, there are not many people like this, but I have noticed that there are a handful of people on here that jump from thread to thread hurling insults and worthless comments at everyone.
Unfortunately for EDJ, there seem to be a disproportionate number of their FA's on here who seem downright angry. All of the ones I have met in person seem very pleasant and exhibited no antisocial behavior, but maybe they release their alter-ego on this forum at night. Who knows?
I get the impression that there are some people here that enjoy seeing others fail (build up sense of self importance, I guess), while others are genuinely interested in helping others.
As a former sales manager, I knew that a certain percentage of my people would fail out, but I did everything I could within reason to set them up for success. Sure some of them failed and I had to fire them, but it wasn't because I set up an expectation for failure.
As far as statistics go, the BM at my local MSSB branch claims to have a 100% success rate with new hires for the past 5 years (several have gotten pissed off and quit, but none have washed out). Does this mean I have 100% chance of success? Unfortunately, I think not.
The truth lies somewhere in the middle. As with financial markets, past results are no guarantee of future results. In fact, nobody knows for sure if I will make it... not me, not you, not EDJ, not MSSB. All anyone can do is look at success indicators that may indicate a higher probability of success. The MSSB BM is basing his decision on 25 years personal experience, six structured interviews, past work experience and performance reviews, mutliple tests to measure intelligence, financial ability, sales ability, and personality, review of a business plan, education, mutliple reference interviews, etc. I find it interesting that someone who has never met me and has worked at EDJ for a year thinks he is better qualified to assess my chance of success than the management team at the MSSB Branch with over 40 years combined experience.
Ed Jones survey ranking as #1 is not a compliment to Ed J as much as it’s a condemnation of the business and players in this environment as a whole.
You haven't really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks. People assume you will fail because it's a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn't make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote][quote=SometimesNowhere][quote=MBA2FA]“When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer.”
B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).
Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, “Is this true?”
I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.
Thanks for the Input below. Much more constructive than "I guarantee you will fail. I have considered much of what you have said.
Besides, when the most important part of your "business plan" is your list of 10,000 contacts spread through 4 different continents, that's not "quick business".
Fortunately, I have very few int'l contacts. Most are in major metro areas. The most important part of my business plan is NOT the list. In fact, I was originally just looking at buying lists or using corporate directories, etc. Then I thought, "Wait, these guys have phones. These guys have money. Isn't it worth a simple phone call? I should hope my close rate would be at least equal to cold calling.
By that I mean you can't just call them up, tell them you're a newly minted prized gem with Morgan Stanley and expect a lot of them to open accounts and transfer their life savings. Especially when these people will all know your brand new to the industry and you are roughly an average of 2,000 miles away from most of them. Either
1. You're HNW crowd will have an advisor,
Isn't this the case with all HNW people? Are you saying t is't even wor a try?
2. They prefer to have a local guy that can have an appt. from time to time to look at things,
Agreed. I took a pointer from Judge on this one (500 day war). I was only going to target a few cities I like to visit, so I can go in for appts from time to time. However I do have several contacts in IT that do everything remotely and wouldn't do a physical appointment if I begged them.
3. Will be uncomfortable starting this type of professional relationship with someone who's brand new,
Again, won't I have this problem with anyone I call? I haven't talked to some of these contacts in 2-3 years (my failure to keep in touch can be saved for another discussion), so they don't have to know how new I am. No, I won't lie, but I don't have to announce my newness.
or 4. Won't mind opening an account and thinks "If this guy can do well at selling pharmaceuticals, I'm sure he can get me to a successful retirement!".
I think I'll close about 1 account with this approach. After I close my wife, I'll need to switch approaches. I think it would be wiser to sell people on trust, quality of service, etc. Pharma has nothing to do with financial services (duh). The only thing I can really "sell" about my past is to claim "30% of the MBA grads at my school go into the financial sector because our financial education is so great. While most of them go into investment banking, I decided to go into retail because I don't want to help stupid corporations. I want to help hard-working individuals like you.... or something like that"
#4 will be few and far between, my friend, but the key is there will definitely be some that open an account to help you out. That's a fact, its just a matter of how soon they'll do it, and how many choose to do it. And there will be a wine and dine period between 1st phone call and rollover time. You may need to fly out to Wichita once or twice to take your Finance 701 professor to a steak dinner in order for him to pull the trigger and remind him that no, you weren't sleeping in class that one day because you were bored, you just accidentally took Nyquil instead of Dayquil beforehand.[/quote]
[quote=MBA2FA]
[quote=SometimesNowhere][quote=MBA2FA]"When you deal with old-timers at Jones, you may get one answer. Dealing with newer people, you may get a different answer."B24, thank for all of your input. I think you nailed part of my frustration with Jones. The FA’s in my region are all very nice to me, but all say different things. There are several cliques and I feel like everyone is trying to recruit me to their side. I was surprised to see how many people would openly bash their colleagues to total strangers (and his was while I was still going through the interviewing process).Sometimes, it’s nice to have a manager or some type of authority figure who you can go to for a straight answer. I have yet to find that person at Jones. In fact, most of my Jones intelligence comes from this forum. I learn stuff, then go back to FA’s and ask, "Is this true?"I must say that I appreciate this forum overall. The personal attacks are a bit annoying. I’m not sure why people who think I will fail assume I care about their opinion, but I guess if it makes them feel better about themselves, so be it. For me, this place has been 100x more helpful than my RL.[/quote]
You haven’t really been personally attacked. Ask Wind, he will tell you about personal attacks.
People assume you will fail because it’s a statistical likelihood. I sat in a class with 13 people, none of which thought they were going to be in that 90% that wouldn’t make it. Sure enough, they failed out for one reason or another. People are trying to help you be realistic, they tell you to plan on failing because it is likely, no matter who you are. [/quote]Okay, call me sensitive, but when people are placing bets on whether or not I will wash out in the first 12 months, I take kind of personally… I don’t go crying to my mom, but I do find it annoying.[Side note: I once had a manager receive multiple anonymous death threats on another industry forum. She returned home from a business trip and found printouts of the threatening forum threads nailed to her front door. Now that’s what I call a threat]As mentioned in multiple past posts, I am quite well aware of the industry failure rate. I don’t think it’s possible to make it to the offer stage with multiple firms without a healthy respect for the challenges of this industry.The context of how people address my probable failure serves to me as an indication as to whether someone is trying to be helpful or just being conflictive.For example, if someone were to say, “Your 10,000 contacts will probably be worthless because…” or "Don’t rely on your past success in business because this industry is totally different. I once knew a guy like you who failed because…"When someone says something like, “You are an idiot and a loser. I guarantee you will fail,” what is the value in that? How does that help me in any way?Granted, there are not many people like this, but I have noticed that there are a handful of people on here that jump from thread to thread hurling insults and worthless comments at everyone.Unfortunately for EDJ, there seem to be a disproportionate number of their FA’s on here who seem downright angry. All of the ones I have met in person seem very pleasant and exhibited no antisocial behavior, but maybe they release their alter-ego on this forum at night. Who knows?I get the impression that there are some people here that enjoy seeing others fail (build up sense of self importance, I guess), while others are genuinely interested in helping others.As a former sales manager, I knew that a certain percentage of my people would fail out, but I did everything I could within reason to set them up for success. Sure some of them failed and I had to fire them, but it wasn’t because I set up an expectation for failure.As far as statistics go, the BM at my local MSSB branch claims to have a 100% success rate with new hires for the past 5 years (several have gotten pissed off and quit, but none have washed out). Does this mean I have 100% chance of success? Unfortunately, I think not.The truth lies somewhere in the middle. As with financial markets, past results are no guarantee of future results. In fact, nobody knows for sure if I will make it… not me, not you, not EDJ, not MSSB. All anyone can do is look at success indicators that may indicate a higher probability of success. The MSSB BM is basing his decision on 25 years personal experience, six structured interviews, past work experience and performance reviews, mutliple tests to measure intelligence, financial ability, sales ability, and personality, review of a business plan, education, mutliple reference interviews, etc. I find it interesting that someone who has never met me and has worked at EDJ for a year thinks he is better qualified to assess my chance of success than the management team at the MSSB Branch with over 40 years combined experience. [/quote]
MBA has a point.
However, I wouldn’t say people on here enjoy watching other people fail.
A couple of counterpoints though MBA. The MSSB BM is also in management. If he was in this industry 25 years as a broker, he would have more credibility. There are people who seem like they will succeed in this industry but don’t, and others that on paper look like the crap you just stepped in, but end up being million dollar producers. There is no “magic formula” for determining who will succeed.
I wish you the best of luck (I have beer riding on it), and like someone said you will probably need it. Not because of your background. Not because of your attitude. Simply because so many do need that luck. I have not worked in other fields much (other than military and security), but I’m pretty sure this is the most difficult way to make a living in the country. It is also the most rewarding.
Hopefully you’ll give us some updates. And in one year’s time, I’ll have volt FedEx some good Austrailian beer (not that Foster’s crap B24 drinks). Then you can come by and have 20 calories of one beer.
3rd - it’s easy to get soured on Jones kool-aid, especially if they don’t give you the good batch.
I did all my interviews within a few days and was given an offer the same day as my last interview. It took another week to check refs. A friend of mine, it took him two months. Different for everybody.
Sidebar:
I am not just a Foster's drinker. I drink Guiness, Beamish, Sam (several varieties), a couple of IPA's, and actually Michelob (not that Ultra crap though). I HATE light beers, I won't even SMELL a fruit-flavored beer, and I'll drink an occassional Corona at a barbeque or on the beach. We had a party last week, and my wife went and bought beer (without my knowledge). She bought Bud Light Lime and Michelob Ultra. That was a big disappointment.